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Maybe it's just me, lol. But to me The Rolling Stones live was always about a very raw experience where real live musicians actually played every raw, real sound you heard. When they came back in 1989 with loops and samples I felt they had sort of betrayed what live rock and roll was all about...Alas, I guess times had changed...
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
The African drums that start the song. Nobody is playing them. It's a pre-recorded loop.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
[www.youtube.com]
You can see him double-timing it on the high hat at 4:00. He played it this way from 1989-2003.
[www.youtube.com]
Rio '95 - Go to 5:50 for a close-up.
Now here are versions from 2006 and 2013 where he just plays 8th notes on the high hat:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Doesn't swing as much IMO.
[www.youtube.com]
No difference. Well, there's a huge difference between 1969 and 1989 versions...
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Agree about the synth harp but I would like the congas better if live musicians were playing them!
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
No, it's not! It's Ollie Brown, hidden backstage!
if they can hire a choir for a few minutes for You Can't Always Get… they should be able to hire some conga players for SFTD!
That's just a very small part of the song. Don't forget to listen to the words. The Kennedys have been spared for too long...
I'm not sure if the SFTD sample was taken from the original recording. These «live congas» sound way more precise than how Rocky played it on the album.
Today, Matt Clifford (I think) is actually playing the cowbell on HTW, as opposed to earlier versions with a sequence sample of something that sounded like a cowbell (I doubt it was Miller's take from the original).
I'd bet the farm that the SFTD lop is not taken from the studio version. It's way too perfect. The congas on the album version sound human. They are correct but they swing both ahead of and behind the beat which gives it life. The loop is so precise, it's mechanical, which is why I've always had a problem with it.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
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Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 27, 2016 21:40
I think I've finally been able to forgive the Stones for using that drum loop on SFTD. The song came up from Tokyo Dome this morning and I was surprised at how great that version is. Of course I'd heard it many times but it really struck me just now. Back in 1989, I felt that the Stones using a loop was a betrayal of true rock and roll but I can see how they wanted to present a version of Sympathy that casual fans would find familiar. I still wish they would do it ala Ya Yas or Love You Live but we all know that era is past. On another note, no one seems to begrudge The Who for using backing tracks on songs like WGFA. So, it took me many years, but I've forgiven the loop. The Hyde Park version ain't bad either, though Keith's chops were so much more fierce in 1990.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:03
I didn't know this was a complaint. Thats not even the thing I don't like about SFTD anymore.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:06
Quote
RollingFreak
I didn't know this was a complaint. Thats not even the thing I don't like about SFTD anymore.
Maybe it's just me, lol. But to me The Rolling Stones live was always about a very raw experience where real live musicians actually played every raw, real sound you heard. When they came back in 1989 with loops and samples I felt they had sort of betrayed what live rock and roll was all about...Alas, I guess times had changed...
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:07
I wish Charlie still played in double time on the high hat the way he did from '89 to, I think, through the Licks tour. It gave the song more rhythm and flavor.
Now he just plays straight 4/4 and it's even flatter than before.
Now he just plays straight 4/4 and it's even flatter than before.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
pepganzo
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:13
Quote
keefriff99
I wish Charlie still played in double time on the high hat the way he did from '89 to, I think, through the Licks tour. It gave the song more rhythm and flavor.
Now he just plays straight 4/4 and it's even flatter than before.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:48
I´ve never noticed any loop. And I never noticed a change in Charlie´s recent playing.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 27, 2016 22:58
The congas, HMS.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 27, 2016 23:09
Quote
HMS
I´ve never noticed any loop. And I never noticed a change in Charlie´s recent playing.
The African drums that start the song. Nobody is playing them. It's a pre-recorded loop.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: June 27, 2016 23:30
He used to play 16th notes on the high hats...from 1989Quote
HMS
I´ve never noticed any loop. And I never noticed a change in Charlie´s recent playing.
[www.youtube.com]
You can see him double-timing it on the high hat at 4:00. He played it this way from 1989-2003.
[www.youtube.com]
Rio '95 - Go to 5:50 for a close-up.
Now here are versions from 2006 and 2013 where he just plays 8th notes on the high hat:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com]
Doesn't swing as much IMO.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: June 28, 2016 00:14
Sure, I'm very forgiving...except when I'm not. 
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
SuperC
()
Date: June 28, 2016 00:26
Dreadful. Turns great song into a joke.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: June 28, 2016 00:57
The african drums are an essential part of the song, so I forgive them not to have 15 drummers travelling with them only for playing a few minutes... as long as everything else is live it doesnt bother me.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:08
Quote
HMS
The african drums are an essential part of the song, so I forgive them not to have 15 drummers travelling with them only for playing a few minutes... as long as everything else is live it doesnt bother me.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:12
The synth "harp" on Miss You and I Just Wanna Make Love To You was much worse, imo.
After all, those congas are important for that arrangement.
After all, those congas are important for that arrangement.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:29
What difference does it make. Nothing.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:43
Quote
More Hot Rocks
What difference does it make. Nothing.
No difference. Well, there's a huge difference between 1969 and 1989 versions...
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 28, 2016 01:48
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The synth "harp" on Miss You and I Just Wanna Make Love To You was much worse, imo.
After all, those congas are important for that arrangement.
Agree about the synth harp but I would like the congas better if live musicians were playing them!
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
[email protected]
()
Date: June 28, 2016 03:13
I remember in '89 when Billboard had an article as to what was sampled, i.e besides Sympathy it was from what I remember the cowbell to HTW as well.
I prefer the '89 and '94/95 versions the most. I do agree about it moving more with the 16th notes in '89- and some point it almost sounds like a disco beat and I really liked that. As sampling became better I start to her the mid-range more in '94- 95. It seems as if 2006 you are hearing tom-toms more than congas in some spots.
I am not a drummer like many of you, but do play and use drum vst's in my digital home recordings
All in all, Love You Live was my first Stones tape in early '89 and I was disraught at the arranagement which had no congas and no acoustic piano. I immediately got Hot Rocks 2 weeks later (along with Still Life)
Slightly off topic, as I play the piano I enjoy the most recent intro more as Chuck plays the E-D-A chords before the vocals start. In prior years he was shifting between E-A.
I prefer the '89 and '94/95 versions the most. I do agree about it moving more with the 16th notes in '89- and some point it almost sounds like a disco beat and I really liked that. As sampling became better I start to her the mid-range more in '94- 95. It seems as if 2006 you are hearing tom-toms more than congas in some spots.
I am not a drummer like many of you, but do play and use drum vst's in my digital home recordings
All in all, Love You Live was my first Stones tape in early '89 and I was disraught at the arranagement which had no congas and no acoustic piano. I immediately got Hot Rocks 2 weeks later (along with Still Life)
Slightly off topic, as I play the piano I enjoy the most recent intro more as Chuck plays the E-D-A chords before the vocals start. In prior years he was shifting between E-A.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: June 28, 2016 03:54
Sympathy has lost it's bite and danger for years now. Instead of being menacing and snappy, it seems to plod along like a melancholic dirge.
The lack of riveting bass and the unrestrained piano that were essential to the original are nowhere to be heard which has sucked the life out of it in the process.
Based on a pre-recorded loop as it's heartbeat, it has become artificial.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
The lack of riveting bass and the unrestrained piano that were essential to the original are nowhere to be heard which has sucked the life out of it in the process.
Based on a pre-recorded loop as it's heartbeat, it has become artificial.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
Markdog
()
Date: June 28, 2016 04:16
Charlie has never needed a click track and Keith could always drive up the energy and even the tempo if needed. SFTD becomes instantly lame and boring for me with the click beat in place. There is no need for a lot of backing percussion if the 5 of them are "on" and feeling it.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: June 28, 2016 05:15
A practical solution to a problem that really wasn't a problem.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: June 28, 2016 05:49
Quote
HonkeyTonkFlash
It's a pre-recorded loop.
No, it's not! It's Ollie Brown, hidden backstage!
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 28, 2016 08:32
Listening to the LA Friday version right now. I may not be able to forgive the loop after all; this is how it's done - pounding live percussion and smoking guitars!
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: June 28, 2016 08:51
Quote
HMS
The african drums are an essential part of the song, so I forgive them not to have 15 drummers travelling with them only for playing a few minutes... as long as everything else is live it doesnt bother me.
if they can hire a choir for a few minutes for You Can't Always Get… they should be able to hire some conga players for SFTD!
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
Hansman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 10:24
The loop isn't the problem. It's Keith's guitar playing.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 10:30
Quote
Hansman
The loop isn't the problem. It's Keith's guitar playing.
That's just a very small part of the song. Don't forget to listen to the words. The Kennedys have been spared for too long...
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
rbk
()
Date: June 28, 2016 15:41
Forgive them, why?
They are a part of the original recording. Like the cowbell in HTW.
They are a part of the original recording. Like the cowbell in HTW.
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 28, 2016 15:49
Quote
rbk
Forgive them, why?
They are a part of the original recording. Like the cowbell in HTW.
I'm not sure if the SFTD sample was taken from the original recording. These «live congas» sound way more precise than how Rocky played it on the album.
Today, Matt Clifford (I think) is actually playing the cowbell on HTW, as opposed to earlier versions with a sequence sample of something that sounded like a cowbell (I doubt it was Miller's take from the original).
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: June 28, 2016 16:54
I think the main problem is not as much the loop, nor the guitar playing, but it's the
lack of swing from the bass/piano combination. What Keith and Nicky Hopkins created
together on the original studio version has never been reached by Chuck and Darryl on stage.
They probably can not be blamed, but I miss that basement for the song.
Maybe Chuck is playing to high on the register, maybe Darryl is not fat enough (his sound,
I mean), but something has been missing. In recent years I had to tell myself, now it's
time to dance. In the old days I could not help it, my body started dancing right after
the start of the song.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
lack of swing from the bass/piano combination. What Keith and Nicky Hopkins created
together on the original studio version has never been reached by Chuck and Darryl on stage.
They probably can not be blamed, but I miss that basement for the song.
Maybe Chuck is playing to high on the register, maybe Darryl is not fat enough (his sound,
I mean), but something has been missing. In recent years I had to tell myself, now it's
time to dance. In the old days I could not help it, my body started dancing right after
the start of the song.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Can We Ever Forgive The SFTD Loop?
Posted by:
HonkeyTonkFlash
()
Date: June 28, 2016 17:12
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
rbk
Forgive them, why?
They are a part of the original recording. Like the cowbell in HTW.
I'm not sure if the SFTD sample was taken from the original recording. These «live congas» sound way more precise than how Rocky played it on the album.
Today, Matt Clifford (I think) is actually playing the cowbell on HTW, as opposed to earlier versions with a sequence sample of something that sounded like a cowbell (I doubt it was Miller's take from the original).
I'd bet the farm that the SFTD lop is not taken from the studio version. It's way too perfect. The congas on the album version sound human. They are correct but they swing both ahead of and behind the beat which gives it life. The loop is so precise, it's mechanical, which is why I've always had a problem with it.
"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."
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