Well, both the "punk demo" as the live version are much better than the BtB version, that's for sure. I guess I prefer "garage-Stones" above "ladida-pop-Stones". I still think the lyrics are pathetic though.
I much prefer Aftermath which is a very good album or even Her Satanic Majesties which is 50% terrible but has another 50% which is very good.

I find the whole "Vaudeville" detour interesting...

... but it's never been my cup of Stones tea if I'm honest.

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matxil
Well, both the "punk demo" as the live version are much better than the BtB version, that's for sure. I guess I prefer "garage-Stones" above "ladida-pop-Stones". I still think the lyrics are pathetic though.
I much prefer Aftermath which is a very good album or even Her Satanic Majesties which is 50% terrible but has another 50% which is very good.

Your point of view may possibly represent others outside yourself, but not anybody. I for one, but I am not alone on this point, am delighted by the album version of "Yesterday's Papers".

[If there is a song, where I appreciate and prefer a more or less demo version, but is irritated by a softened album version, it is "Hang Fire", even following further downhill in the footsteps of that cheap "Start Me Up".]

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DandelionPowderman
The live version of Yesterday's Papers, extracted from a meddley with GOOMC (1967). Pretty energetic





[www.youtube.com]

Mmmm..also very superb...this is what I call Underground...

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DandelionPowderman


Perhaps Mick was expanding his record collection at the time, and got inspired

More likely to be the influence of his fellow band members.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman


Perhaps Mick was expanding his record collection at the time, and got inspired

More likely to be the influence of his fellow band members.

Might very well be, but we don't know if that's more likely than him hearing another song..

Not very Stonesy sounding and a bit awkward songwriting, but the backing track/instrumentation and backup vocals are somewhat interesting considering the period in time.
I imagine Hermans Hermits reworking it with a string section and having a minor hit with this.
Or Tom Jones rocking it up and belting it out in his over the top style...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

what song are you alluding to, DP?

this song and Between The Buttons are kind of necessary outliers ..

unusual experimental efforts, like TSMR, very important because it precedes a

move toward the realization of all that blues and rock and roll they had in them, waiting to come out in their later style. along with the Dylan influence.

Im glad they wrote all those cool experimental songs, theyre very melodic and Bill even got in on the action. (In Another Land)

[www.youtube.com]

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Come On
Hey don't forget the punkier Demo ...

Now that's a great version 5/5...

I prefer the raw sounding demo too, but they somehow went in a different direction with it.

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman


Perhaps Mick was expanding his record collection at the time, and got inspired

More likely to be the influence of his fellow band members.

Might very well be, but we don't know if that's more likely than him hearing another song..

Nothing he has said about it implies that, there is implication regarding my suggestion though.

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peoplewitheyes
what song are you alluding to, DP?

None in particular. I'm just saying that it's just as likely that he got inspired by something he heard.

This is what the man himself says about the writing of it (timeisonourside.com):

«This was going to be very straight but it's ended up donging about all over the place. All tinkling and weird. Charlie said he wanted to think up a weird drum rhythm for it and brought about two dozen different drums into the studio. This has been covered by someone else - the way I originally saw it.

- Mick Jagger, 1967

I think the first song I wrote melodically was Yesterday's Papers.

- Mick Jagger, 1985

(T)he first song I ever wrote completely on my own for a Rolling Stones record.

- Mick Jagger, 1995

So, judging by these quotes, Mick most likely got input from other people in the band on the arranging, not for the writing or the creation of the melody.

I don't know if it's true, but it is indeed what Mick says anyway, and I haven't read any objections..

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Mick Jagger
Charlie said he wanted to think up a weird drum rhythm for it

This seems to me one of the few moments where either Mick or Keith talks about the influence
Charlie had in the song writing.
Does "thinking up drum rhythm" qualify as co-writing a song, I wonder? Or is it more
in the category of "arrangements"?

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Implication there that in the process of the arrangement being worked out the melody changed too. It certainly had to to fit the stones arrangement.

But, dear dandie always has a negative point of view about the others possibly influencing song melodies whenever it is brought up. It can never be that, oh no, hence suggesting a song melody change maybe being down to a record by someone else even though there is no suggestion or proof for that.

Dandies view: Mick and Keith blatantly stole from other peoples records, but never ever allowed the other band members to influence their songs sacred melodies.

LOL! If Mick all of a sudden came out and said that others helped him write the YP-melody, It would make me just as happy as anyone

The point is, he hasn't – and no one else has claimed it, either.

He won't, no one has to and I don't believe you.

Mmmm YP is a typical Wyman-song (the master of backvocals)...and early also...

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It's elementary, my dear Johnston. Facts are what matters to me

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His Majesty
Implication there that in the process of the arrangement being worked out the melody changed too. It certainly had to to fit the stones arrangement.

Yeah, to me the drum rhythm truly defines the nature of the song Yesterday's Papers.
Just like it does on Get off of my cloud, Neighbors, Suck on the jugular, and Stupid Girl,
to name a few.
Some songs wouldn't be the song as we know it, if it wasn't for the genious of mr Watts.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Bobby should have had songwriting credits for Ventilator Blues, then?

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DandelionPowderman
It's elementary, my dear Johnston. Facts are what matters to me

Erm, claims made in interviews, sometimes contradictory, often absent of any real detail, are what matters to you... and the downplaying of any suggestive evidence that melodies were possibly influenced by other members of The Rolling Stones or guest musicians.

In essence: Mick and Keith never ever used influence from the others, directly or otherwise, as influence for melodies. They let everything, but their own fellow band members influence melodies.

Funny.

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DandelionPowderman
Bobby should have had songwriting credits for Ventilator Blues, then?

Did something he played or suggest result in a rhythmic or melodic change to the songs melody? If so, Yes.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
It's elementary, my dear Johnston. Facts are what matters to me

Erm, claims made in interviews, sometimes contradictory, often absent of any real detail, are what matters to you... and the downplaying of any suggestive evidence that melodies were possibly influenced by other members of The Rolling Stones or guest musicians.

In essence: Mick and Keith never ever used influence from the others, directly or otherwise, as influence for melodies. They let everything, but their own fellow band members influence melodies.

Funny.

Have you thought of possible reasons for Mick to lie about YP (of all songs), being the first song where he wrote the melody all by himself?

I agree, though, that his statements aren't facts per se. However, it's the closest we get – closer than speculation about arrangement changes (not made by Mick) being the trigger for melody changes.

Maybe Mick didn't notice how his band mates changed his song melodically?

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
Bobby should have had songwriting credits for Ventilator Blues, then?

Did something he played or suggest result in a rhythmic or melodic change to the songs melody? If so, Yes.

Bobby instructed Charlie by clapping his hands to lay down the rhythm pattern.

I keep away from discussions about who should have had songwriting credits and what for,
but I am interested in finding out how the band created songs. I certainly have a feeling
that songs they created together are the ones I like better than the songs that were
written by any member on his own and then "performed" by the band.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman
Bobby should have had songwriting credits for Ventilator Blues, then?

Did something he played or suggest result in a rhythmic or melodic change to the songs melody? If so, Yes.

Yes, it did. And he had to stand beside Charlie and visually show it to him while Charlie recorded it.

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DandelionPowderman

Have you thought of possible reasons for Mick to lie about YP (of all songs), being the first song where he wrote the melody all by himself?

I agree, though, that his statements aren't facts per se. However, it's the closest we get – closer than speculation about arrangement changes (not made by Mick) being the trigger for melody changes.

Maybe Mick didn't notice how his band mates changed his song melodically?

Not saying he is lying.

This thing of 'writing', are the melodies written down and set? Nope... It gets put down in a recording, in this instance recorded after the arrangement has been worked on and recorded.

Also, the melody did not stay the same, it starts of as a somewhat stiff thing, in it's released stones form it becomes a far more springy and free spirit, gets pulled in a bit and back to more basic thing for the Chris Farlowe single afterwards...

Mick has said the Farlowe single, which Mick 'produced' is more closer to how he wanted it.

So, to bring it back to where I started...

One wonders what might have influenced such obvious changes for the stones release.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-09 15:48 by His Majesty.

Apparently, production (in which Mick maybe didn't call the shots) happened.

The rest is speculation - either way.

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DandelionPowderman
Apparently, production (in which Mick maybe didn't call the shots) happened.

The rest is speculation - either way.

It's more than production, there are notable changes to the melody.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-09 15:48 by His Majesty.

If it's facts you need, the credit on the record states it was written by Jagger Richards, arranged by The Rolling Stones.

Why is Mick lying about writing this by himself?

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