Summer Romance

Quote
SweetCousinCocaine


I'm pretty sure he always did the broken 8th notes on the hi-hat--.

Nope.

Quote
franzk

Quote
StonedAsia
Charly??

You know, the guy who plays with Ronny and Mickey.

Cheers for that. I had to towel off the laptop screen.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
peoplewitheyes
Not to very too far from the topic, but when was the last time Charlie played an interesting beat on record. Almost everything I can think of from the last 25 years features the same pedestrian bass-snare-bass-bass-snare plod...

(standing back to avoid the rotten tomatoes)

I think his drumming got kinda ruined once they tried to take onboard that jittery new wave drumming style and/or that thing of lifting his stick off the hi-hat when he hits the snare... wonkified his groove, to my ears and it seems to have made him lose his ability to play like he did circa 1967 - 1972. Eg, like his playing on studio versions of Jigsaw Puzzle, Gimme Shelter etc etc.

That style of drumming on 2000 Man, 2000 Light Years and Citadel was perfected on BB, LIB, EOMS and GHS.

It changed with IORR, changed again a bit with BAB, and then changed even more to the modern sounding Charlie with SG - that economical style of drumming (gone was the rolling thumping style so awesomely evident on GYYYO! as well as the above mentioned studio albums of 1967-1973).

It's been the same ever since, with She's So Cold being the epitome of his current way of playing (Tie Me Up, All The Way Down and Flip The Switch are other great examples).

You gots it! ^

I think it first creeps in to his playing on Talking About You... he hasn't quite got the relaxed groove, but he gets more in to it a bit as the track goes on.

[www.youtube.com]

Settling in fine by the time of Under My Thumb...

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 18:41 by His Majesty.

Gotta love GOOMC

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
SweetCousinCocaine

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
peoplewitheyes
Not to very too far from the topic, but when was the last time Charlie played an interesting beat on record. Almost everything I can think of from the last 25 years features the same pedestrian bass-snare-bass-bass-snare plod...

(standing back to avoid the rotten tomatoes)

I think his drumming got kinda ruined once they tried to take onboard that jittery new wave drumming style and/or that thing of lifting his stick off the hi-hat when he hits the snare... wonkified his groove, to my ears and it seems to have made him lose his ability to play like he did circa 1967 - 1972. Eg, like his playing on studio versions of Jigsaw Puzzle, Gimme Shelter etc etc.

I'm pretty sure he always did the broken 8th notes on the hi-hat--I thought I saw in an interview somewhere that it's subconscious, he doesn't even notice he's doing it until someone points it out to him.

He started playing like that in 1978.

Well, technically it was 1977 when he started playing like that...

I meant on stage. Can't hear it on El Mocambo..

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I meant on stage. Can't hear it on El Mocambo..

The SOME GIRLS 1977 sessions, although some of the finished ones could've been take 20-300 in 1978...

His best drumming is on the 1978 tour. Hands down, no questions, case closed.
Now, I'm not sure if it's the new SG material, the new kit, the added China crash or what, but that's his best playing; totally different from 1975-76. When they came back in 1981, it seemed, to me, he was holding back a bit. A lot of this depends on how we interpret the boots and videos. But the 1981 tour is where we see the start of where Watts is today.

His best drumming is on the 1978 tour. Hands down, no questions, case closed.
Now, I'm not sure if it's the new SG material, the new kit, the added China crash or what, but that's his best playing; totally different from 1975-76. When they came back in 1981, it seemed, to me, he was holding back a bit. A lot of this depends on how we interpret the boots and videos. But the 1981 tour is where we see the start of where Watts is today.


Spot On!! Read it and weep yer majesty!!

Quote
MadMax
His best drumming is on the 1978 tour. Hands down, no questions, case closed.
Now, I'm not sure if it's the new SG material, the new kit, the added China crash or what, but that's his best playing; totally different from 1975-76. When they came back in 1981, it seemed, to me, he was holding back a bit. A lot of this depends on how we interpret the boots and videos. But the 1981 tour is where we see the start of where Watts is today.


Spot On!! Read it and weep yer majesty!!

If one prefers the more stiff, rock drummer approach, I tend to agree.

The funkiness and versatility in his playing on the 1975 tour was on a more accomplished and generally higher level, though, imo.

"If one prefers the more stiff, rock drummer approach, I tend to agree.

The funkiness and versatility in his playing on the 1975 tour was on a more accomplished and generally higher level, though, imo."

????????!!

Stiff?? 1978 is ALL great, unique, Philly soul-inspired drumming, in 1975 Ollie was there to assist and enhance the sound (granted, with great results).

God, I know opinions are like ars*h*les, but when it comes to the merits of Charlie's drumming and the camps between us who loves 77-79 and you others who don't seem to get it, it tends to get ridiculous!! We've had these discussions since the autumn of 2003!!! SG and ER are the peaks of Charlie's drumming. Basta!!



You're a rag trade girl, You're the queen of porn, You're the easiest lay on the white house lawn!!

You obviously don't know how much I cherish the 1977-1983-era

I just tried to nuance the picture a bit, as the setlist was less versatile musically in 1978 than that of 1975 – hence Charlie could show the width of his musical abilities, with AND without Ollie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-13 15:28 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
You obviously don't know how much I cherish the 1977-1983-era

I just tried to nuance the picture a bit, as the setlist was less versatile musically in 1978 than that of 1975 – hence Charlie could show the width of his musical abilities, with AND without Ollie.

Good point DP - 1978 was more straight ahead rock numbers; no Wild Horses and so forth...

I understand, I just don't agree that the word "stiff" and Charlie's drumming in 77-79 go together. This I normally hear from people who don't even like the Stones, ("wonky Watts" etc etc) I know you have great taste in music DP, hence my reaction to your choice of words.

Maybe "stiff" was the wrong word.

Even I can hear that Charlie's stuff in Where The Boys Go, Let Me Go etc. isn't stiff playing. It's rather crazy and adventurous - and I love it!

It was the heavy SG-flavoured setlist I had in mind regarding the 78 tour. That said, I have never heard Charlie play a better Love In Vain than he did in 1978 (the rest of the band, too, for that matter)...

As I said i like all his live playin from 69-78. But I'd prefer 69 to 78 by far.
YaYa's and the playin (and use of hi-hat) on YaYa's Sympathy made me start drumming.

Btw. when I was around on the 76 tour it was unbelievable how the energy level changed when Olli Brown took the drums for the Preston songs. Great drummer.

I've always loved Honky Tonk Women from LOVE YOU LIVE. One of the reasons is how Charlie plays on that. It rolls and he's very fluid, it's not so plodding like the studio version.

Quote
MadMax
His best drumming is on the 1978 tour. Hands down, no questions, case closed.
Now, I'm not sure if it's the new SG material, the new kit, the added China crash or what, but that's his best playing; totally different from 1975-76. When they came back in 1981, it seemed, to me, he was holding back a bit. A lot of this depends on how we interpret the boots and videos. But the 1981 tour is where we see the start of where Watts is today.


Spot On!! Read it and weep yer majesty!!

I read it and laughed.

If you can't rock me

"The drummer thinks that he is dynamite"

Get off my cloud

It's been remarked that both Bill and Charlie responded favorably to Chris Kimsey's sound in the studio. I suspect this had an impact on Charlie's playing because he liked the playbacks much more than before. It certainly affected Bill in a positive way as well. Similar comments were made when Don Was came on board in 1993. Ronnie noted Charlie telling them to turn him up in the mix.

What I loved about Charlie's drumming was when he used the entire kit more. His toms are in play more from '66 up to 75-ish. Because even within that time span there were changes. (as it should be with a musician)
I love what Majesty says about "Talkin Bout You" and then pointing towards UMT; perfect examples. Could be the studios and recording techniques. And then just the US experience feeding Charlie the drummer. But he definitely got around more on the kit after 66.
I love how Charlie used his floor tom on Sticky Fingers and Exile, Banquet and LIB; the way he attacked his cymbals. Yes - Im sure Jimmy Miller was a great teacher because much of what I love in Charlie's playing I can hear in Jimmy's style.
What I have always loved in Charlie's playing is how he does the ballads. He follows the singer, and the lyrics.
But I totally agree with tomk, that after 78 he ...did something. It's almost the equivalent of what Jagger does on stage these days; it's good, very good even, but economical.

Rocks Off .. Beast Of Burden .....

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Maybe "stiff" was the wrong word.

Even I can hear that Charlie's stuff in Where The Boys Go, Let Me Go etc. isn't stiff playing. It's rather crazy and adventurous - and I love it!

It was the heavy SG-flavoured setlist I had in mind regarding the 78 tour. That said, I have never heard Charlie play a better Love In Vain than he did in 1978 (the rest of the band, too, for that matter)...

Agree on Love In Vain in 1978. That's what that song needed on that tour. Someone here described it as a kind country-punk-garage version, and that's kinda true. I wouldn't call Charlie "stiff" in 1978, I think he was awesome on that tour, totally different from 1975-76; and I think his playing in 1981 is different from 1978.