Swiss, I like that there are more black people on this show than the other HBO Sunday night offerings, Girls and Togetherness. Those are two very white shows. So don't jump to any conclusions. If I were watching the Wayans Brother's old show, In Living Color, I would call Jim Carrey the "white guy," because he was just that - the only white guy on the show.

I don't know any of the character's names on Vinyl because nobody calls each other by their names, except for Richie. Everybody's always saying,'Richie this and Richie that,' it becomes tedious when one person becomes the focus of the whole show.

The mail room guys? They're the people I'd be hanging out with. I was specifically referring to the guy who was demoted, in a previous post. He was subsequently sent down to the mail room, when he begged to keep his job. Whatever that dude's name is... you know, one of the white guys on the show. Alice Cooper put his head in a guillotine, that guy. I'm just not interested in his character on the show. There are too many characters on Vinyl, IMHO. It all becomes distracting and not enough time is spent developing any main characters, except for Richie.

But I do have to say, I was impressed that Richie was giving his secretary money, after he found out she was pregnant. Remember her? She was on the top on my list with Mick Jagger's kid. So Richie still has some redeemable qualities, but they're evaporating fast. The whole 90k thing in Vegas.... if somebody gets sober and does that, it just means they're an as*hole.

I say turn the whole thing into Game of Thrones and kill a lot of them off one by one, starting with Richie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-11 09:09 by Socrates1.

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with sssoul

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alieb
interesting- "creative differences" have caused Terence Winter to leave Vinyl

link

Thanks, alieb! My heart soared when I read "If it happens, the series will
progress in time" - but it promptly sank again, because moving from 1973 all
the way "into 1974" is not really what I've been hoping. Wouldn't it be cooler
to just flush this whole gang and have Season 2 get into a whole new decade?
For example the 50s, which the musical director seems to like better than
anything else :E

I hope the qualities of this season aren't thrown to the wayside for the sake of ratings in Season 2. And funny, with sssoul, you say your heart sank reading about the progression "moving from 1973 all the way 'into 1974'."

When I first read that same sentence, I was pretty delighted the show might focus on 1974! Because 1974-75 is when so many of those musical and cultural "moments" that have been touched on in Season 1---from 1973---take hold and gain traction. Disco, hip hop, punk, new wave. All in NYC. The 1960s were finally "over" by 1974. 1973 is truly the seminal year when much of the 1960s was shed. So, I really hope the show doesn't vault into the '80s

- swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-11 10:27 by swiss.

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Socrates1
Swiss, I like that there are more black people on this show than the other HBO Sunday night offerings, Girls and Togetherness. Those are two very white shows. So don't jump to any conclusions. If I were watching the Wayans Brother's old show, In Living Color, I would call Jim Carrey the "white guy," because he was just that - the only white guy on the show.

I don't know any of the character's names on Vinyl because nobody calls each other by their names, except for Richie. Everybody's always saying,'Richie this and Richie that,' it becomes tedious when one person becomes the focus of the whole show.

The mail room guys? They're the people I'd be hanging out with. I was specifically referring to the guy who was demoted, in a previous post. He was subsequently sent down to the mail room, when he begged to keep his job. Whatever that dude's name is... you know, one of the white guys on the show. Alice Cooper put his head in a guillotine, that guy. I'm just not interested in his character on the show. There are too many characters on Vinyl, IMHO. It all becomes distracting and not enough time is spent developing any main characters, except for Richie.

But I do have to say, I was impressed that Richie was giving his secretary money, after he found out she was pregnant. Remember her? She was on the top on my list with Mick Jagger's kid. So Richie still has some redeemable qualities, but they're evaporating fast. The whole 90k thing in Vegas.... if somebody gets sober and does that, it just means they're an as*hole.

I say turn the whole thing into Game of Thrones and kill a lot of them off one by one, starting with Richie.

Yup, I understand what your preferences would be. I don't share your views. But not suggesting anything about you and race. You've said that mail room thread is boring and nothing happens. Although you've also said much of the show is slow for you, boring, have trouble telling the characters apart and too many of them, can't always stay awake, not enough happening, hard to follow, etc.

I was simply saying, to me, a lot happens in the mail room, and it's subtle, capturing quite accurately a particular sociographics/social/class dynamic in early 1970s America (or, perhaps, it's simply early 1970s New York Metropolitan Area)---and I haven't seen it played out so well before.

btw, Richie is giving CeeCee money for an abortion. I guess that's impressive(?)...tho' it struck me as practical and something he could readily do.

Oh no, Richie was giving CeeCee money for an abortion? I thought it was for diapers or something. I can't see Richie lasting through this season. What is there, only one episode left? That's what happened to him (the actor) on Boardwalk Empire, he made a big splash then went crashing down.

And I don't know what you mean as far as "preferences" go. You're from the next generation ahead of me, so I have respect for your experience. I'm one of the jaded 80s kids. I prefer black women.

I like this show, quite a bit, actually. I'm just trying to offer constructive criticism here. I felt that the beginning of the season was really rocking. But there were like three episodes in a row where everyone was acting like they were on quaaludes or something. Maybe that's why one of the writers left over "creative differences." Perhaps I wasn't the only one falling asleep.

So yeah, I just thought there was a bit of subtext in your post that I needed to address. I like your writing. I've read you before on the internet and I think you're great.

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swiss
So, I really hope the show doesn't vault into the '80s
- swiss

Me too - like I said it would be a lot more interesting to vault back to the '50s.
I'd gladly watch a vault back earlier than that, but the '50s seem a more realistic decade to hope for.

I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but I appreciate your detailed reviews, swiss.
I'm with Socrates about the dork in the mail room, though: He just isn't interesting,
and that isn't due to any shortage of relevant experience on my part.
You may be right that no other TV show has explored the "minority majority" thing -
I don't watch enough TV to know - but the character (Clark?) is still an uninteresting dork.

And sure it's fantastic that they're presenting these key ~*moments*~ in music and culture -
but they don't follow up on them enough. I want to watch a show where the music and those moments are the main focus,
not same-old gangster-style Scorsese characters fvkcing up everything in sight as usual.

Also, I have to say I find all the female characters half-baked and disappointing.
Ray Romano is quite a good actor, though. I've never seen him in anything before, I don't think.

What new city are you in, swiss? If it's okay to ask



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 00:22 by with sssoul.

Interesting episode, Richie looks like he might be on the rebound going forward, can't really go any lower!

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

The mail room guy is played by Jack Quaid, son of Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan. He went to school with my daughter and they were in plays together. He's a talented kid. They likely had a long term arc for him whe he loses his "innocence." As for now, his character seems a bit lame.

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with sssoul

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swiss
So, I really hope the show doesn't vault into the '80s
- swiss

Ray Romano is quite a good actor, though. I've never seen him in anything before, I don't think.

you've never seen an episode of Everybody loves Raymond?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-11 23:24 by alieb.

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alieb
you've never seen an episode of Everybody loves Raymond?

I'd never even heard of it until someone mentioned it in this thread.

Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan - so the fellow comes from good stock. The idea of making a character get interesting later
is probably okay if they limit the amount of time devoted to him before the interesting bits kick in.

This last episode 's just awesome! Best one so far by some distance.

Yes, a pretty good (next to last) episode last night (April 10). Some intense moments - and we even got some Nasty (Bits) sex!
It will be interesting to see how they end it next week. Do we know for sure if there will be a Season 2?
I've said before (and think I echo a lot of people here) that it's a fairly enjoyable (if far from perfect) series...I have found myself looking forward to Sunday nights, and re-watching most of the episodes at least once.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 00:16 by DEmerson.

With only one episode remaining, dive into the latest issue of #Vinyl Cuts >> [www.vinylcuts.nyc]

[twitter.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 13:34 by bye bye johnny.

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Wild Slivovitz
This last episode 's just awesome! Best one so far by some distance.

completely agree! Definitely got me on the edge of my seat. Wondering why Kip seems so darn sullen all the time, hopefully we will find out in the last episode. That threesome! Also actually wondering what will happen with Devon and Richie after spending 8 episodes being annoyed by their storyline.

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with sssoul
like I said it would be a lot more interesting to vault back to the '50s.
I'd gladly watch a vault back earlier than that, but the '50s seem a more realistic decade to hope for.

That would be pretty cool. And Scorsese is at least as in love with 1950s NYC as he is 1970s NYC. I would love to see what went into "making" Richie...how he came to be who he is now. Not as an episode but as a spin-off series.

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with sssoul
I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but I appreciate your detailed reviews, swiss.

Thanks, I tried not to give too much away to anyone who hasn't seen it--intentionally vague when referring to things that happened. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the episode after you see it, w/sssoul.

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with sssoul
I'm with Socrates about the dork in the mail room, though: He just isn't interesting,and that isn't due to any shortage of relevant experience on my part. You may be right that no other TV show has explored the "minority majority" thing - I don't watch enough TV to know - but the character (Clark?) is still an uninteresting dork.

To me, this show isn't about character study. Any character is that of early 1970s New York City (as the character). And even that is from a detached POV. But that is vintage Scorsese and, perhaps, Mick too. It's almost all observational, a series of pencil sketches. Some areas colored in; many/most not. Or like a camera pan or sweep...sometimes it slows down or pauses briefly to look at something more closely, but mostly it's scanning the landscape, alighting upon moments, anecdotes, interactions, bits of flavor, hints at things...and then moves on.

So---given that---to me, the part of Clark is just fine. I don't know that he's meant to be interesting, per se, or even sympathetic. But in terms of observing...in 1973, it is close to "bizarre" for someone from his WASPy/Yale background to end up in a record company, at, probably, age 23 or 24. There are certain things he would be expected to be, and to be doing--and this is certainly not one of them. Still, as long as he was in A&R he could probably somewhat convince his parents and peers that he was "Doing Something" legit, in this weird, still new-ish, crass, borderline low-life industry centered on rock n roll, and he would have nominal credibility.

But being a hair's breadth from being fired--and selling drugs, and demoted to the mail room, a place where not only is working there "Not Done" by people from his background, but being among people who are not only not educated, but lower middle class, black, from Uptown, and--with reason--do not like or respect him; nor do they have to show him the accord they might in other contexts, given that he's an interloper in their inner sanctum and, most likely (given his befuddlement), for the first time, he's being mocked for the very things that mark him as a member of the top of the social class heap in American society.

To me, sociologically, that makes the character pretty fascinating. Dork and dull, notwithstanding. So I personally am very interested in him and his career trajectory. And appreciate the depiction of his geeky earnestness, and true lack of pretension (despite how he talks--to them, a snobbish "accent"--his stiff corny white man dance moves, and the affectations and markings of his social class), and the suggestion that his authentic love of music---and the cajones it took to kick back at them when he knew quality dope would surprise and elevate his status with the dominant mailroom guy--would eventually allow him to transcend the social markers that would otherwise prevent him from mixing with the mail room guys. If he had shown one ounce of pride---or if he ever, even once, pulled "rank" on them by pulling his class-entitlement card---he would not have ended up being allowed to tag along to the dance parties. And I love that he is clearly tagging along. Nervous, ingenuous, open, marveling at what he sees and hears.

In some ways, he is the "weirdest" character of all in the series.

Perhaps Jamie too, in that same way. Tho, I'm confused what her background is supposed to be. Ostensibly from some kind of NYC wealth, but a wealth I'm not quite recognizing, from 1973. Perhaps to your point, with sssoul, about the female characters being even less fleshed out than the men. We don't even know what schools she went to, or why or how she landed at Century. Except that she loves music. Which is more likely to have been the case with a young woman from not a wealthy background (unless she was, basically, "crazy," which is not how she is being depicted--which is scrappy driven rebel girl, which doesn't quite resonate in that way, for me, with that time period, tho I like the character a lot). But she looks, talks like, and acts more like someone who wandered in from Queens. And the hair...I don't recall seeing hair like that anywhere in the early 1973. Maybe by 1975, but even then not common. Jerry Hall, interestingly, is the first instance I've seen of that frizzed out long curly look (and that was in avante guard fashion). But I digress...

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with sssoul
And sure it's fantastic that they're presenting these key ~*moments*~ in music and culture - but they don't follow up on them enough. I want to watch a show where the music and those moments are the main focus,
not same-old gangster-style Scorsese characters fvkcing up everything in sight as usual.

hmmm...I know what you mean, but I'm not experiencing the show in quite the same way. I almost see the gangster plot and characters as incidental. If Season Two is focused on that shit, I'm sure I'll lose interest. What is interesting to me about the murder is the Crime and Punishment aspects of it Also a recurring theme of Scorsese (and Woody Allen). What can you "get away with? What does murder do to your soul? As well as other metaphysical questions around our proximity to being nasty and brutish creatures...the more passionate you are...the less civilized...the less bounded by "petty morals." It's just a shot/kiss away?

And the consideration of "moments," to me, extends way beyond cultural and musical thresholds. And about moments, more generally. In one's mind. In the course of an afternoon. In relationships, in glances, expressions, in vibes that shift even in the course of a conversation. So, I'm cool with there not being linear follow-up, nor even any follow-up, often on these moments.

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with sssoul
Also, I have to say I find all the female characters half-baked and disappointing.

Agreed. I don't usually get many "moments" or glimmers of insight into the females characters. But, again, for me--the show isn't about the characters quite as much as the phenomena and context. Devon...almost ge insights into her, but not really, or not "deeply." For example, We don't know how she ended up with Warhol & Co. then again, we don't know how many of these people ended up where they are. Maybe more than a glance at personal history isn't interesting to the people creating the show. Maybe it's simply: here they are.

I loved (in this episode you haven't seen yet) Devon's reaction to potentially capitalizing on artifacts of her past. People don't seem to (and maybe she doesn't) appreciate her for who she is, but what she can offer up, or do for them (e.g., be eye candy and flirt/envy-bait for Hannibal).

Prior to this most recent episode, we saw this question of anecdotalizing and trading on her past, when (perhaps not wholly unlike what it could have been like for Patti when she and Keith first settled into gentile Connecticut life, and Patti was aspiring to be part of the post-Junior-League charity scene), Devon was trying to find her place in the nonprofit fundraiser, by wheedling a signature from Warhol so she could parlay his art work into "social capital," by donating it to a silent auction, and is essentially snubbed because she's still NOKD, despite the vain and fleeting attempt for her quasi ally to appeal to the snobs by declaring: "But that's Devon in the portrait!" and, once seeing its falling on deaf ears, hurriedly distances herself from Devon "Um...I have to run inside and check on the flowers," due to her own sense of social insecurity--again: to me, beautiful consideration of a set of fleeting moments, but just packed with stuff!

So, we don't learn about Devon, per se? But maybe the producers of this show believe omniscient observation--how people respond to different circumstances--is the best we can do, in terms of "knowing" a character? I don't know whether any of the characters is hugely "well-drawn." But I do agree...the females maybe more relegated to the sidelines of our inquiry? Not sure.

Intensely dislike the character whose name I can't remember. Not because she's a Queen Bitch, but because I feel she's a male character plunked in a sexy woman's body. And I sense she's being "lauded" by the creators of the show for being "bad ass" and "strong" and "knowing how to put guys in their place" (which is a profoundly 2016 meme, which I also intensely dislike--i.e., that boys will be men will be boys---and, therefore, the admirable, successful women in this world will be as aggro, disrespectful, emotionally deaf, mean, hard, brutal, and able to "manage" aggro obnoxious men as "alpha" men are). She does not act like a strong woman, to me. She's scripted, in my opinion, with male words and attitudes coming out her mouth and mien. She is the only character I dislike. And, again, I know "You're not supposed to like her"; and that's not what I mean; I don't mean she is unlikable; I mean I dislike that the character was created thus.

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with sssoul
Ray Romano is quite a good actor, though. I've never seen him in anything before, I don't think.

I don't think I have either. Vaguely aware of some sitcom, with some bleating silly character, but I may be wrong. And am extremely impressed with this!

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with sssoul
What new city are you in, swiss? If it's okay to ask

Las Vegas! (For now.)

- swiss

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DEmerson
Yes, a pretty good (next to last) episode last night (April 10). Some intense moments - and we even got some Nasty (Bits) sex!
It will be interesting to see how they end it next week. Do we know for sure if there will be a Season 2?
I've said before (and think I echo a lot of people here) that it's a fairly enjoyable (if far from perfect) series...I have found myself looking forward to Sunday nights, and re-watching most of the episodes at least once.

Definitely Season 2. They jettisoned one of the creators of the show, so will be interesting to see how the show is re-shaped. My guess it will have more widespread commercial appeal. I feel if they had just continued per Season 1 they would have seen it catching on, much in the way the disco song did in the basement party. Slowly but surely. I hope I am wrong, because the essence of this show is unique--and, to me, that uniqueness makes it highly enjoyable!

btw...I know you were being punny about the nasty(bitz) sex, but it reminded me---it was so refreshing for sex to be portrayed in a very '70s way---not "nasty" or prurient, but natural, and "meaning" something perhaps in the moment but...who knows beyond that? (And James Jaggers' final reaction/expression was extraordinary!! again: these "moments" that the show captures---they far transcend over-articulation or words at all!)

I wasn't impressed by the threesome.

Oh I didn't know there were new posts. That was to alieb.


Juno's HBO interview....


[www.hbo.com]


apologies for posting four times in a row...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 10:20 by Socrates1.

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swiss
To me, this show isn't about character study. Any character is that of early 1970s New York City (as the character). And even that is from a detached POV. But that is vintage Scorsese and, perhaps, Mick too. It's almost all observational, a series of pencil sketches. Some areas colored in; many/most not. Or like a camera pan or sweep...sometimes it slows down or pauses briefly to look at something more closely, but mostly it's scanning the landscape, alighting upon moments, anecdotes, interactions, bits of flavor, hints at things...and then moves on.

I understand what you're saying, but I can't fully get into the show if I don't know anything about all these people they keep parading across the screen every week. It's like everybody has a bit part except the Richie character.

I just think Juno is the whole show. She's stealing the show with her presence alone. She's the go getter. People want to know more about her. Am I right? Doesn't everybody who watches this show want to know more about her?

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bye bye johnny

With only one episode remaining, dive into the latest issue of #Vinyl Cuts >> [www.vinylcuts.nyc]

[twitter.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 04:18 by Socrates1.

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Socrates1
Oh no, Richie was giving CeeCee money for an abortion? I thought it was for diapers or something. I can't see Richie lasting through this season. What is there, only one episode left? That's what happened to him (the actor) on Boardwalk Empire, he made a big splash then went crashing down.

And I don't know what you mean as far as "preferences" go.

That's what I mean about preference. Your preference for him and other characters to go crashing down and disappear from the series. And other preferences you've mentioned about what makes a show good or interesting. I just meant we see that differently. Just different preferences/taste.

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Socrates1
I prefer black women.

Again, wasn't referring to preference re: race, but that's cool

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Socrates1
You're from the next generation ahead of me, so I have respect for your experience. I'm one of the jaded 80s kids.

LOL, maybe, not sure about that...I came of age in the '70s and '80s, but it was in NY, and I was fascinated by scenes (that were very different from where I was coming from), and started sneaking into the city at an early age.

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Socrates1
I like this show, quite a bit, actually. I'm just trying to offer constructive criticism here. I felt that the beginning of the season was really rocking. But there were like three episodes in a row where everyone was acting like they were on quaaludes or something. Maybe that's why one of the writers left over "creative differences." Perhaps I wasn't the only one falling asleep.

The initial viewing of the pilot--according to the article someone posted here--was something like 874,000, and the producers/creators of the series were disappointed. I didn't watch when it premiered, but did a couple weeks later, when it was re-aired. Wasn't sold on the pilot, but watched a couple more episodes, and was hooked. I wouldn't be surprised if it did take off--bt slowly. But maybe not. Maybe they do need to change it up to get a huge viewship. And I wouldn't be surprised if you are far from the only one falling asleep. I often love shows and movies that other people fall asleep in - lol! Did you like The Station Agent? Completely different, but happens to star Bobby Cannavale, and is "slow" and nuanced.

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Socrates1
So yeah, I just thought there was a bit of subtext in your post that I needed to address. I like your writing. I've read you before on the internet and I think you're great.

Wow, thanks Don't know which subtext. But if you mean you thought I was implying something about you and black people, I wasn't. I really was saying I personally found the interplay interesting between Clark and the guys in the mailroom. To me, those scenes are packed with stuff about race and class, as I said, at least in NYC, in the early 1970s--which I haven't seen portrayed that way in TV or movies, or in writing. Clark's being a total fish out of water, the power dynamics in the room, how he was being hassled and ridiculed, the social interplay, and how he handled and didn't handle it.

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Socrates
Oh no, Richie was giving CeeCee money for an abortion? I thought it was for diapers or something. I can't see Richie lasting through this season. What is there, only one episode left? That's what happened to him (the actor) on Boardwalk Empire, he made a big splash then went crashing down.

And I don't know what you mean as far as "preferences" go.

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swiss
That's what I mean about preference. Your preference for him and other characters to go crashing down and disappear from the series. And other preferences you've mentioned about what makes a show good or interesting. I just meant we see that differently. Just different preferences/taste.

Oh, I understand you now. I didn't mean to be morbid before, talking about killing off some of the characters. What if the guy in the mailroom moved to Chicago? I'm not suggesting they turn Vinyl into Boardwalk Empire, necessarily. But I need more excitement out of a show. The first episode was very exciting, when the club collapsed and Richie woke up on the floor, that was just great tv-watching. After that it was like the whole show slowly lost momentum.

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Socrates1
I prefer black women.

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swiss
Again, wasn't referring to preference re: race, but that's cool

Sorry, I was half in the bag last night.

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Socrates1
You're from the next generation ahead of me, so I have respect for your experience. I'm one of the jaded 80s kids.

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swiss
LOL, maybe, not sure about that...I came of age in the '70s and '80s, but it was in NY, and I was fascinated by scenes (that were very different from where I was coming from), and started sneaking into the city at an early age.

Wow that's cool. So you really are relating to this show on a different level than I am. Maybe I do want Vinyl to be more like Boardwalk Empire? I just want some action packed stuff going on. And I like dialogue, too, don't get me wrong. I would appreciate more depth in the dialogue. "Jumbled" is a descriptive sensation that comes to mind when I think about Vinyl. It's like everything is thrown together.

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Socrates1
I like this show, quite a bit, actually. I'm just trying to offer constructive criticism here. I felt that the beginning of the season was really rocking. But there were like three episodes in a row where everyone was acting like they were on quaaludes or something. Maybe that's why one of the writers left over "creative differences." Perhaps I wasn't the only one falling asleep.

Quote
swiss
The initial viewing of the pilot--according to the article someone posted here--was something like 874,000, and the producers/creators of the series were disappointed. I didn't watch when it premiered, but did a couple weeks later, when it was re-aired. Wasn't sold on the pilot, but watched a couple more episodes, and was hooked. I wouldn't be surprised if it did take off--bt slowly. But maybe not. Maybe they do need to change it up to get a huge viewship. And I wouldn't be surprised if you are far from the only one falling asleep. I often love shows and movies that other people fall asleep in - lol! Did you like The Station Agent? Completely different, but happens to star Bobby Cannavale, and is "slow" and nuanced.

I don't know if I saw the Station Agent. What was it about? I liked the first Vinyl episode. It was action packed. It was exciting. I don't mind falling asleep with the tv on. But I don't want to do that with this show. They're always blaring loud music, though not for too long-a time. They have these bursts of music on the show. Maybe they should extend that. Play more music for longer periods of time. The show is supposed to be about music. They're always playing snippets of songs. I like the opening song, whoever does that one...

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Socrates1
So yeah, I just thought there was a bit of subtext in your post that I needed to address. I like your writing. I've read you before on the internet and I think you're great.

Quote
swiss
Wow, thanks Don't know which subtext. But if you mean you thought I was implying something about you and black people, I wasn't. I really was saying I personally found the interplay interesting between Clark and the guys in the mailroom. To me, those scenes are packed with stuff about race and class, as I said, at least in NYC, in the early 1970s--which I haven't seen portrayed that way in TV or movies, or in writing. Clark's being a total fish out of water, the power dynamics in the room, how he was being hassled and ridiculed, the social interplay, and how he handled and didn't handle it.

I think I was feeling overly sensitive about an argument I happened to have gotten into, on some other message board, right before I posted here. I'm more black than a lot of white people are. That's how I've always felt. Yeah, the mailroom dynamic... I was just bored by the mailroom. I liked the club scene. When they went from playing funk to disco, or whatever that was.... I just keep thinking: "more music." The show is about music. How about some nightclub scenes where all the dialogue is people yelling? That would be fun. Do you think it would be? If they dared to play 3 to 4 minutes of music on the show, at a time, like whole songs all the way through, and interspersed that with the characters interacting with each other, I bet it would really work and feel cohesive. There isn't a whole lot of cohesion in this show. They jump from one thing to the next.

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Socrates1
Am I right? Doesn't everybody who watches this show want to know more about [Juno]?

Nah - I'm not impressed with her at all, and I don't think I'm supposed to be -
she comes across as a fantasy babe for the gentlemen viewers to enjoy.
As swiss says she looks/talks/acts like someone who's wandered in from Queens in anachronistic hair,
rather than the wild thing from a wealthy family that she's supposed to be. (And for me it didn't help
that her mother's Polish pronunciation was so terrible - mercy, they have a city full of Poles to call on to get it right!)

And thanks, swiss, for more of your insights. I'm glad you're getting so much out of the show.
Apparently I just expect a show to do more of the work filling in those fleeting moments and half-baked characters
instead of leaving us to guess about quite so much. I don't feel like I need to be hit over the head with things -
I think I do fine with nuances and subtlety - but this series is simply leaving too much out.
When I could still get into the "vinyl cuts" site I read an interview with Olivia Wilde
explaining what Devon and the Swedish chick are about, what motivates them, how they feel, etc.
Great, big help - but why do I have to read this in an interview?? It should be conveyed on the screen.

I'll watch this episode again (well, I watch them all twice, to make sure I'm getting my money's worth :E )
The basement party scene was nicely done. The bat was hilarious!

Swiss in Las Vegas?! I hope you settle in nicely, and that you'll tell us more when you're ready to



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-12 11:50 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul

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Socrates1
Am I right? Doesn't everybody who watches this show want to know more about [Juno]?

Nah - I'm not impressed with her at all, and I don't think I'm supposed to be -
she comes across as a fantasy babe for the gentlemen viewers to enjoy.
As swiss says she looks/talks/acts like someone who's wandered in from Queens in anachronistic hair
than the wild thing from a wealthy family that she's supposed to be. For me it didn't help
that her mother's Polish pronunciation was so terrible - mercy, they have a city full of Poles to call on to get it right!

And thanks, swiss, for more of your insights. I'm glad you're getting so much out of the show.
I guess I just expect a show to do more of the work filling in those fleeting moments
instead of leaving us to guess.

I'll watch this episode again (well, I watch them all twice, to make sure I'm getting my money's worth :E )
The basement party scene was great. The bat was hilarious!

IAW withsssoul on the not-too-impressed. At first I thought I liked her character, but the n I had to be honest and just see htat I only like looking at her. The Polish thing with her mother was just odd because it was done so wooden IMO. First she isn't Polish ( I think that is Lena Olin), and second, she wouldn't stop speaking Polish. In films that tool is usually used differently where the point is made, and then either subtitles or a switch in language helps the viewer along. But I think Juno's character is there to thaw out the James Jagger character, and wipe that scowl off his face.
I thought they slipped up with the dorky guy. Because in that time the race relations were different. You didn't have this annoying habit of white guys calling themselves "dorky white dude" to black or Rican guys. That whole white guilt hadn't been milked so much yet.
I do think the show would benefit from staying with fewer characters and storylines. Eg. Spielberg's film about Lincoln didn't try to look at his whole life story but told a lot about the man, by just focusing on a short time span. Now I know Scorsese and Jagger both lived through the 70's, in NYC, in the Biz - but most of us did not. So in a way they are swapping inside jokes back & forth that I am really not 'getting' at times. It's easy for them to do a quick scene "Man you remember the building actually collapsing?", boom - building goes down, and I;m left reading up on it. Max's alone could be a show. Te Rock press and photographers who were so close with their stars is a great story. The drugs. Was there even someone like Rickie who tried to have it all? Dope, girls AND family? The influx of the Mob; now that is an incredible story IMO.
But they are telling it all, and it all gets too vague.
A quote by Jagger re. the series that I really liked is him saying " remember this was all really funny as is went down". I can feel that; as a gang of 20 year olds this had to be insane fun. But we are not being told that kind of tale.

I am enjoying Vinyl and also really enjoying this thread and reading everyone's thoughts, particularly from an American point of view, thus adding a perspective on how realistic the finer points of the series are. I always have to delay reading this by a day as the show is broadcast on a Monday night on Sky Atlantic in the UK.
i really cannot second guess how this series will end, seems like there will be a lot to cover in next week's final episode! (then again, we will be left hanging for Season 2 no doubt)

I haven't kept up with the show since the first episode--parts of it sound very appealing.

I do worry about the show runner, co-creator Terence Winter leaving, as mentioned, due to "creative differences":
[www.cleveland.com]

~"Love is Strong"~

They could do something like this ... really wrap the story around itself

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schillid
They could do something like this ... really wrap the story around itself

Ohh schillid, I wish!
I suspect they do too :E

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with sssoul

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schillid
They could do something like this ... really wrap the story around itself

Ohh schillid, I wish!
I suspect they do too :E

it'd be awfully conCrete
Layers of real and fictional characters and offspring and producers intertwined...

If Martin Scorsese and Mick Jagger were a bit more like Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld, I think they could pull it off.

Angee, hopefully you can catch up with the show. I think it's actually a lot of fun.

Some of this stuff is over my head. I don’t know anything about the subtleties of Polish accents. Juno’s character is a ray of light. Sure, she’s easy on the eyes. That’s part of it. Maybe she appears to be more from the 80s than the 70s. Does Juno’s character seem like she doesn’t actually come from money, on account of her teased hair? I don't know.

Jamie Vine brings an enthusiastic aura of joy to rooms full of men wearing chaffing polyester. I had to look up the character’s name, because no one ever calls each other by their names on this program. Except for Richie, Richie, Richie. That’s the only name they say. Jamie Vine steals every scene she’s in, IMO. How did anybody ever wear polyester clothes?

Do the characters seem like they’re agitated? Are there too many pained expressions on the their faces? They seem like they’re miserable sometimes. Maybe it’s the polyester, or they just know the writing has kind of sucked. “This was all really funny as it went down.” Yeah, that’s not totally coming across.

You know what was fun, when those guys stole the guitars. That looked real. Jagger junior’s guitar was still plugged in and the amp hit the floor as he tried to get out of the shop. That felt like it was in-the-moment. I could feel the adrenalin pumping.

What about emotions? The guy who plays Richie is a good actor. But again, I think he’s the one person on the show who’s allowed to act. All the other bit players are orbiting around a dying sun. Richie is too much the center of the show’s universe. Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm and cohesion. That’s what the show needs. Now I’m just complaining on the internet.

This post isn't coming together, no matter how many times I edit it. The show is kind of like this post. It's all this stuff thrown together that doesn't always make a lot of sense. Bring in Larry David!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-13 03:35 by Socrates1.