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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman

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LeonidP
Ventilator Blues, only 8/10? Way off, an easy 10.

It's running a bit out of steam for my liking, but a great song indeed – as every 8/10-song would be.

I also stand by my 8/10, which is higher than any track on Black and Blue so, yes, Ventilator Blues is a great song ;-)

Personally I am dismayed, no, actually *shocked* at the 6/10 for "Soul Survivor". This is the song that holds the whole album together and makes sense of it all!

For me, it's a vibe, not a song. A good one at that, though. No melody whatsoever. That's the thing I miss in it.

Greatest album by the Stones?
Could be, but going against Beggars, LIB, and Sticky Fingers is no easy feat. The fact that it's a double album helps the argument, but my opinion changes and alternates as the years go by.
One day it's best, next day it's not. Today it is. One things for damn sure, nothing as great ever came after it. Thankfully we were reminded of the vibe with Crosseyed Heart.

As mentioned in a different thread, Ventilator Blues is the weakest imo, but fits within the album as a whole.
Certainly wouldn't replace it with Plundered or any other fluff.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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whitem8
Ventilator Blues is one of the core songs from the Album. It is truly a steam pressure cooker blues number perfectly describing the 60s. Everybody's stepping on their accelerators! Sure enough! A great layered blues song that sounds like it lives in an alley near cauldron of bums soaking up drink like a sponge...

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Hairball
Greatest album by the Stones?
Could be, but going against Beggars, LIB, and Sticky Fingers is no easy feat.

Agree - and why I (like many others) refer to them as the BIG 4!
When I pick Exile as #1, it is by slimmest of margins, mainly because of the uniqueness of the majority of the tracks.

The fact that Exile is indeed a double album with hardly a bad song on it guarantees it gets the top spot for many fans. Picking the best 10 or 11 songs off Exile makes for an interesting and more direct comparison to BB, LIB and SF.

For me this single album would be pretty hard to top. Yes it omits some of the more interesting tunes which flavor Exile with a certain sense of stylistic diversity; but I think this selection would have grabbed people right out of the gate...no growing on you or tepid initial reviews, just well deserved praise and admiration.

I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Rocks Off
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Torn and Frayed
Loving Cup
Happy
Ventilator Blues
Let It Loose
All Down the Line
Stop Breaking Down

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

Well Wish You Were Here is only 4 (or 5) songs so that doesn't count but I'll substitute DSOTM and agree with you on that one. I'm not sure the other two quite hold up to best 10 tracks on Exile but it's obviously subjective and not debatable.

Your constant support of Dirty work is both cute and bat s h i t crazy.

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

I snapped my fresh-out-of-the-oven gingerbread cookie clean in half when I read this.

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LeonidP

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whitem8
Ventilator Blues is one of the core songs from the Album. It is truly a steam pressure cooker blues number perfectly describing the 60s. Everybody's stepping on their accelerators! Sure enough! A great layered blues song that sounds like it lives in an alley near cauldron of bums soaking up drink like a sponge...

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Hairball
Greatest album by the Stones?
Could be, but going against Beggars, LIB, and Sticky Fingers is no easy feat.

Agree - and why I (like many others) refer to them as the BIG 4!
When I pick Exile as #1, it is by slimmest of margins, mainly because of the uniqueness of the majority of the tracks.

Yes the BIG 4 indeed.

But when I think I've got the answer and pick Exile as my favorite (as I did earlier today), I'm reminded of one single tune in the Stones' entire history that bursts the Exile bubble.
That single tune is Gimme Shelter - perhaps the greatest Stones tune known to mankind imo. And that single tune happens to be on LIB, which also has Midnight Rambler and YCAGWYW.
I'd confidently say that any of those tunes alone stand up to (and are better) than anything that Exile has to offer. And with that, I switch my vote for back to LIB for the greatest.
But then I start thinking about Beggars Banquet w/ Sympathy and SFM. Again, I'd say either of those tunes alone are better than anything Exile has to offer. So I have to look at Exile as a whole again, and experience it in all it's glorious double album length. It's a no win situation really, but any album that has Gimme Shelter on it would have to be my desert island disc...until I change my mind again. And with that exercise complete, I now realize that Sticky Fingers ranks 4th amongst the BIG 4, and nothing will probably ever change that.

As of today, here's where I stand:

Let It Bleed
Beggars Banquet
Exile
Sticky Fingers

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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whitem8
Ventilator Blues is one of the core songs from the Album. It is truly a steam pressure cooker blues number perfectly describing the 60s. Everybody's stepping on their accelerators! Sure enough! A great layered blues song that sounds like it lives in an alley near cauldron of bums soaking up drink like a sponge...

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Hairball
Greatest album by the Stones?
Could be, but going against Beggars, LIB, and Sticky Fingers is no easy feat.

Agree - and why I (like many others) refer to them as the BIG 4!
When I pick Exile as #1, it is by slimmest of margins, mainly because of the uniqueness of the majority of the tracks.

Yes the BIG 4 indeed.

But when I think I've got the answer and pick Exile as my favorite (as I did earlier today), I'm reminded of one single tune in the Stones' entire history that bursts the Exile bubble.
That single tune is Gimme Shelter - perhaps the greatest Stones tune known to mankind imo. And that single tune happens to be on LIB, which also has Midnight Rambler and YCAGWYW.
I'd confidently say that any of those tunes alone stand up to (and are better) than anything that Exile has to offer. And with that, I switch my vote for back to LIB for the greatest....

Again, agree on Gimme Shelter as their all time greatest tune. And as stated, I would never question anyone picking one of the four over the others - they are all amazing. Personally for me, I can't pick LIB as my #1, mainly because of Midnight Rambler, I listen to it and want it to be as strong sounding as the live YaYa's version, but it pales in comparison.

And, although no single song on Exile is as good as Gimme Shelter, I still feel that Exile as an album is the ultimate Stones experience, from beginning to end. Exile still wins for me.

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LeonidP

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Hairball

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LeonidP

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whitem8
Ventilator Blues is one of the core songs from the Album. It is truly a steam pressure cooker blues number perfectly describing the 60s. Everybody's stepping on their accelerators! Sure enough! A great layered blues song that sounds like it lives in an alley near cauldron of bums soaking up drink like a sponge...

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Hairball
Greatest album by the Stones?
Could be, but going against Beggars, LIB, and Sticky Fingers is no easy feat.

Agree - and why I (like many others) refer to them as the BIG 4!
When I pick Exile as #1, it is by slimmest of margins, mainly because of the uniqueness of the majority of the tracks.

Yes the BIG 4 indeed.

But when I think I've got the answer and pick Exile as my favorite (as I did earlier today), I'm reminded of one single tune in the Stones' entire history that bursts the Exile bubble.
That single tune is Gimme Shelter - perhaps the greatest Stones tune known to mankind imo. And that single tune happens to be on LIB, which also has Midnight Rambler and YCAGWYW.
I'd confidently say that any of those tunes alone stand up to (and are better) than anything that Exile has to offer. And with that, I switch my vote for back to LIB for the greatest....

Again, agree on Gimme Shelter as their all time greatest tune. And as stated, I would never question anyone picking one of the four over the others - they are all amazing. Personally for me, I can't pick LIB as my #1, mainly because of Midnight Rambler, I listen to it and want it to be as strong sounding as the live YaYa's version, but it pales in comparison.

And, although no single song on Exile is as good as Gimme Shelter, I still feel that Exile as an album is the ultimate Stones experience, from beginning to end. Exile still wins for me.

Haha I wasn't trying to change your mind, or convince you to see things my way - I don't even know what my way is.
I've already flip-flopped twice today, and will probably do so again tomorrow.

For what it's worth, I've always liked the studio version of Midnight Rambler and could never say it 'pales in comparison' to YaYa's version,
I would agree the YaYa version is indeed better, but there's something eerily powerful even in the studio version.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

It's hard to top Beggars Banquet, imo. That one has stayed on the top of my list for some time now.

Exile is very different to the other «big 4»-albums both sound-wise and without the immediate high-points you'll find on the others. That different sound, and its flow, is why it will be high up on anyone's list, imo.

BIG FOUR:

The Rolling Stones
The Rolling Stones No 2
Out of our Heads
Aftermath


John Paul George Ringo

2 1 2 0

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Naturalust

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

Well Wish You Were Here is only 4 (or 5) songs so that doesn't count but I'll substitute DSOTM and agree with you on that one. I'm not sure the other two quite hold up to best 10 tracks on Exile but it's obviously subjective and not debatable.

Your constant support of Dirty work is both cute and bat s h i t crazy.

If you had said 'classic' or 'great' albums, none of the albums HMS mentioned fit that category, which is fitting seeing that those "not very good" albums of those artists are the ones he considers great albums.

Typical.

And what the hell is he doing talking about EOMS anyway? He doesn't know anything about it or what good music is.

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Naturalust
The fact that Exile is indeed a double album with hardly a bad song on it guarantees it gets the top spot for many fans. Picking the best 10 or 11 songs off Exile makes for an interesting and more direct comparison to BB, LIB and SF.

For me this single album would be pretty hard to top. Yes it omits some of the more interesting tunes which flavor Exile with a certain sense of stylistic diversity; but I think this selection would have grabbed people right out of the gate...no growing on you or tepid initial reviews, just well deserved praise and admiration.

I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Rocks Off
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Torn and Frayed
Loving Cup
Happy
Ventilator Blues
Let It Loose
All Down the Line
Stop Breaking Down

Ever taken the STICKY FINGERS session songs from EOMS and put them on SF? It's hilarious.

If you were to take just the France tracks as EOMS it's a completely different album (two of them - the EOMS tracks and then that plus the bonus disc tracks from those sessions).

I've always liked the idea of having an edited version of EOMS in terms of time, which ends up being...

Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Casino Boogie
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
Torn and Frayed
Loving Cup
Happy
Turd On The Run
All Down the Line
Stop Breaking Down
Soul Survivor

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GasLightStreet

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Naturalust

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

Well Wish You Were Here is only 4 (or 5) songs so that doesn't count but I'll substitute DSOTM and agree with you on that one. I'm not sure the other two quite hold up to best 10 tracks on Exile but it's obviously subjective and not debatable.

Your constant support of Dirty work is both cute and bat s h i t crazy.

If you had said 'classic' or 'great' albums, none of the albums HMS mentioned fit that category, which is fitting seeing that those "not very good" albums of those artists are the ones he considers great albums.

Typical.

And what the hell is he doing talking about EOMS anyway? He doesn't know anything about it or what good music is.

I´m not the only one to consider Aladdin Sane & Wish You Were Here "great albums", which they are indeed, truly great albums. Opinions on Empire Burlesque may differ, but for reasons I dont understand. It´s a classic and one of Bob Dylans best albums ever.

About EOMS I know enough to tell the great songs from the so-so´s, the supbar and the fillers. I think they released a double album only because the Beatles did the same (years) before, btw the White Album should also have been released as a single album, it contains lots and lots of fillers, just like Exile does.

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HMS

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GasLightStreet

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Naturalust

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

Well Wish You Were Here is only 4 (or 5) songs so that doesn't count but I'll substitute DSOTM and agree with you on that one. I'm not sure the other two quite hold up to best 10 tracks on Exile but it's obviously subjective and not debatable.

Your constant support of Dirty work is both cute and bat s h i t crazy.

If you had said 'classic' or 'great' albums, none of the albums HMS mentioned fit that category, which is fitting seeing that those "not very good" albums of those artists are the ones he considers great albums.

Typical.

And what the hell is he doing talking about EOMS anyway? He doesn't know anything about it or what good music is.

I´m not the only one to consider Aladdin Sane & Wish You Were Here "great albums", which they are indeed, truly great albums. Opinions on Empire Burlesque may differ, but for reasons I dont understand. It´s a classic and one of Bob Dylans best albums ever.

About EOMS I know enough to tell the great songs from the so-so´s, the supbar and the fillers. I think they released a double album only because the Beatles did the same (years) before, btw the White Album should also have been released as a single album, it contains lots and lots of fillers, just like Exile does.

There is no filler on the White Album or Exile on Main Street. If you made up an album of what you consider "filler" on either one of those albums, they would still be better than "Wish You Were Here".

Obladi-Oblada...

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DandelionPowderman
Obladi-Oblada...

There are Definitely songs on wish you were here that are worse. The opening song for example
Trivia: Obladi Oblada is one of the first songs about transvestites.

I was not arguing that the worst song on the white album was better than anything on Wish you were here, I was saying the filler on either that or EOMS is better than the entirety of wish you were here.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-22 22:37 by Turner68.

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Turner68
...Trivia: Obladi Oblada is one of the first songs about transvestites...

Proceed and present your evidence.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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Turner68
...Trivia: Obladi Oblada is one of the first songs about transvestites...

Proceed and present your evidence.

It's obviously based on the lyrics in the last verse:

Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band

Which is rather sexually ambiguous although I wouldn't necessarily make the same conclusions Turner did about it.

Shine On You Crazy Diamond is worse than Obladi-Oblada? Help me God.

People will listen to SOYCD when Obladi-Oblada and the entire Exile-album is long forgotten.

At least Turner´s conclusion regarding the Beatles-song is right, imo. During their time in Hamburg they surely met a lot of transvestites.

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Naturalust
It's obviously based on the lyrics in the last verse:

Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band

A slip of the tongue, according to the author.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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Naturalust
It's obviously based on the lyrics in the last verse:

Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band

A slip of the tongue, according to the author.

Proceed and present your evidence.

Shotton, Pete & Schaffner, Nicholas (1983) John Lennon: In My Life (New York: Stein and Day).

.....

Olly.

Did John really write a word of it? I know the credits..

Wish You Were Here is a masterpiece from start to finish - not one second of filler imo.
Would I pick it over the White album or Exile? No.

As for any filler on the White album - Revolution #9 is a candidate.

As for Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da, it's been claimed this was one of the first (if not the first) ska/reggae influenced tunes recorded by a pop/rock band,
or according to this site (Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da): "This was one of the first songs with a Reggae beat to have pop success".

As for being a song about transvestites, Olly is correct in that is a wrong assumption.
"Paul mistakenly sang "Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face." It was intended to be "Molly," but Paul decided to leave it in to create confusion". (same link as above)

Trivia: The name Desmond was used as a tribute to International Jamaican star Desmond Dekker:

Desmond Dekker & The Aces - "Israelites"




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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HMS

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GasLightStreet

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Naturalust

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HMS

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Naturalust
I don't know many records where I and almost any fan can pick as many songs and rate them so highly.

Pink Floyd´s Whish You Were, David Bowie´s Aladdin Sane and Bob Dylan´s Empire Burlesque come to mind and - of course - Dirty Work.

Well Wish You Were Here is only 4 (or 5) songs so that doesn't count but I'll substitute DSOTM and agree with you on that one. I'm not sure the other two quite hold up to best 10 tracks on Exile but it's obviously subjective and not debatable.

Your constant support of Dirty work is both cute and bat s h i t crazy.

If you had said 'classic' or 'great' albums, none of the albums HMS mentioned fit that category, which is fitting seeing that those "not very good" albums of those artists are the ones he considers great albums.

Typical.

And what the hell is he doing talking about EOMS anyway? He doesn't know anything about it or what good music is.

I´m not the only one to consider Aladdin Sane & Wish You Were Here "great albums", which they are indeed, truly great albums. Opinions on Empire Burlesque may differ, but for reasons I dont understand. It´s a classic and one of Bob Dylans best albums ever.

About EOMS I know enough to tell the great songs from the so-so´s, the supbar and the fillers. I think they released a double album only because the Beatles did the same (years) before, btw the White Album should also have been released as a single album, it contains lots and lots of fillers, just like Exile does.

Typical.

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Olly

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Naturalust
It's obviously based on the lyrics in the last verse:

Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band

A slip of the tongue, according to the author.

Nevertheless that's still what it ends up being about. "Everyone will wonder whether Desmond's a bisexual or a transvestite". The link you cited actually spells it out quite clearly in support of my interpretation.

As far as John's contribution to the song, in addition to insisting that Paul leave Desmond's alternative sexuality intact, he also hit upon the arrangement for the song:

"After about four or five nights doing 'Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da', John Lennon came to the session really stoned, totally out of it on something or other, and he said, 'All right, we're gonna do Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da.' He went straight to the piano and smashed the keys with an almighty amount of volume, twice the speed of how they'd done it before, and said, 'This is it! Come on!' He was really aggravated. That was the version they ended up using. „
—Mark Lewisohn, The Beatles Recording Sessions, p.141, 1988

Finally, yes it is considered by some to be one of the first "white" reggae songs:
"Articulation of the words really should determine the overall riff of the whole thing ... Ob-la-di has an accent, ob-la-da has an accent, 'life goes on...' sort of leads you into that ska feel. There's a definite scansion to those lyrics, which is probably why they ended up playing a ska beat. In fact, that's one of the first examples of white reggae. „
—Stewart Copeland, Musician Magazine,

My point? "ob-la-di ob-la-da" was mentioned as an example of filler on the white album, but often even a weaker beatles tune (which it undoubtedly is) has a lot of depth to it - a happy, upbeat song about a conventional couple but in the last verse you find out the husband puts on makeup and a dress; and the song has a ska feel to it.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-23 08:04 by Turner68.

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Turner68

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Olly

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Naturalust
It's obviously based on the lyrics in the last verse:

Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face
And in the evening she's a singer with the band

A slip of the tongue, according to the author.

Nevertheless that's still what it ends up being about. "Everyone will wonder whether Desmond's a bisexual or a transvestite". The link you cited actually spells it out quite clearly in support of my interpretation.

As far as John's contribution to the song, in addition to insisting that Paul leave Desmond's alternative sexuality intact, he also hit upon the arrangement for the song:

"After about four or five nights doing 'Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da', John Lennon came to the session really stoned, totally out of it on something or other, and he said, 'All right, we're gonna do Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da.' He went straight to the piano and smashed the keys with an almighty amount of volume, twice the speed of how they'd done it before, and said, 'This is it! Come on!' He was really aggravated. That was the version they ended up using. „
—Mark Lewisohn, The Beatles Recording Sessions, p.141, 1988

Is the part I put in bold also cited in Lewisohn's book?

Curious as I found this alternate version from a different source:

“After finally turning in what sounded like a flawless performance, [McCartney] burst out laughing. 'Oh shit!' he said. 'We'll have to do it again!' 'Well, it sounded OK to me,' John yawned. 'Yeah,' George agreed. 'It was perfect.' 'But didn't you notice?' Paul demanded. 'Notice what?' said John. 'I just sang "Desmond stays at home and does his pretty face" ... I should've sung "Molly!"' The others refused to believe him — until George Martin played back the tape and proved Paul was right. 'Oh, it sounds great anyway,' Paul concluded. 'Let's just leave it in — create a bit of confusion there. Everyone will wonder whether Desmond's a bisexual or a transvestite". - Pete Shotton, John Lennon: In My Life, 1983



I don't know much about Lewisohn or Shotton, so wouldn't know whose story is more accurate.

edit: Pete Schotton

edit#2: Mark Lewisohn

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-23 08:11 by Hairball.

I'm familiar with the source you cite but the version I recall is straight from Paul's mouth.

I believe it's on the video accompaniment to Anthology that Paul credits John with insisting that it's left in. It's definitely on video, and more recent than the source you mention. He's talking about contributions John made to his songs and told the story of Ob-la-di Ob-la-da and how John insisted that he leave the "new" lyric intact, he mentions how John came up with the "it can't get no worse" part of "Getting Better" as another example.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-23 08:25 by Turner68.