great post. are any of the steel wheels songs outtakes from mick solo albums?

It's hard to say. The timeisonourside.com site has several quotes from Mick and Keith about the creation of the album, like this one from Keith:

"It all sounds very boring, sitting around a couple of chairs and a tape recorder and a couple of guitars. Mick had a keyboard with him, and we flung out a few ideas. There were a couple that I'd started working on during my own album. They were embryonic at the time, and since I didn't use them, I said to him, Well, I think there's something here you might like... So we just started it. And within 2 days, we realized we had 5 or 6 songs happening. We didn't bother with anything else. I did have to take Mick to a few discos - which are not my favorite places in the world - because Mick likes to go out and dance at night. So I did that. That was my sacrifice. I humored him. And that's when I knew we could work together."

So it can be inferred that Slipping Away was the other solo outtake that Keith brought in and the rest of the album was worked up between Mick and Keith in the studio over 5 weeks.

Steel Wheels page at: [www.timeisonourside.com]

Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-26 05:23 by Rocky Dijon.

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Rocky Dijon
Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.

You don't know that for sure.
Maybe Keith had some songs that he had worked on his own, without Jordan's input.
Or maybe they just were not finished enough to need to credit Steve Jordon.
By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith, and there was me saying Jagger's strong point was the melodys lol. Maybe Keith is modest when is comes to claiming who wrote what between him and Mick.

Ding round 2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-26 17:18 by keefriffhards.

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keefriffhards

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Rocky Dijon
Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.

You don't know that for sure.
Maybe Keith had some songs that he had worked on his own, without Jordan's input.
Or maybe they just were not finished enough to need to credit Steve Jordon.
By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith, and there was me saying Jagger's strong point was the melodys lol. Maybe Keith is modest when is comes to claiming who wrote what between him and Mick.

Ding round 2

here you go marginalizing Mick on his birthday...no cake for you!

Mick learned everything he knows about songwriting from Keith. Even if he writes a song completely on his own, Keith´s influence shines through.

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HMS
Mick learned everything he knows about songwriting from Keith. Even if he writes a song completely on his own, Keith´s influence shines through.

Pretty sure they both learned together. They were one of the best songwriting teams in rock history. Where Keith probably initially brought more musically to the table, Jagger certainly brought more lyrically. Takes both to craft t tune.

I wouldn't underestimate Jagger's ability to both create and shape what he want's to hear musically either. When you realize all the songs you always thought were Keith's that were almost totally written by Jagger, even in the early days, you have to give the guy plenty of credit.

This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

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HMS
This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

...and very patient

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HMS
This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

you're very stubborn aren't you Personally, I agree with Naturalust. Certainly Keith is the more creative person musically speaking, but Mick is a very clever poet and his early songs show a level of sophistication that is unlike what a lot of young songwriters can achieve right off the bat.

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treaclefingers

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keefriffhards

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Rocky Dijon
Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.

You don't know that for sure.
Maybe Keith had some songs that he had worked on his own, without Jordan's input.
Or maybe they just were not finished enough to need to credit Steve Jordon.
By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith, and there was me saying Jagger's strong point was the melodys lol. Maybe Keith is modest when is comes to claiming who wrote what between him and Mick.

Ding round 2

here you go marginalizing Mick on his birthday...no cake for you!

HE He trickle your funny, you make me laugh, and in a good way

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keefriffhards

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Rocky Dijon
Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.

You don't know that for sure.
Maybe Keith had some songs that he had worked on his own, without Jordan's input.
Or maybe they just were not finished enough to need to credit Steve Jordon.
By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith, and there was me saying Jagger's strong point was the melodys lol. Maybe Keith is modest when is comes to claiming who wrote what between him and Mick.

Ding round 2

Actually it's you that doesn't know things for sure. However, these things matter far more to you so we'll let your junior high cheerleader version of reality be the one that counts. You'll have to do better than this to get me back in the ring. It's like fighting a child.

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Stoneburst

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Turner68

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Stoneburst

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gotdablouse
...and that would be the Stones' Director of Business Affairs whose name escapes me now but she's credited son SSS (and Live at the Marquee) as a co-executive producer. She's also the one who set the prices for the O2 shows and got a choir involved according to an article in the Times (Guardian?)...oh and designed TShirts for these shows too apparently!

Apologies for necrobumping this part of the thread: it's Joyce Smyth, and she was originally Jagger's divorce lawyer, although obviously her role has expanded a lot since then (on which note, Naturalust is right, she was by all accounts the one who called MT to tell him he'd been dropped earlier this year).

is she rupert's replacement?

Not sure - there was an interview with her in The Times a few years ago (after the O2, if memory serves), but it's behind their paywall. If anyone here is a subscriber, perhaps they could copypasta it.

Indeed that would be interesting, here is the article : [www.thetimes.co.uk]

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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alieb

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HMS
This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

you're very stubborn aren't you Personally, I agree with Naturalust. Certainly Keith is the more creative person musically speaking, but Mick is a very clever poet and his early songs show a level of sophistication that is unlike what a lot of young songwriters can achieve right off the bat.

That's cos Mick was reading the right sh-t when he was young.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-26 22:58 by keefriffhards.

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keefriffhards

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alieb

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HMS
This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

you're very stubborn aren't you Personally, I agree with Naturalust. Certainly Keith is the more creative person musically speaking, but Mick is a very clever poet and his early songs show a level of sophistication that is unlike what a lot of young songwriters can achieve right off the bat.

That's cos Mick was reading the right sh-t when he was young.

or actually reading.

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keefriffhards

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alieb

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HMS
This proves that Keith was an excellent teacher

you're very stubborn aren't you Personally, I agree with Naturalust. Certainly Keith is the more creative person musically speaking, but Mick is a very clever poet and his early songs show a level of sophistication that is unlike what a lot of young songwriters can achieve right off the bat.

That's cos Mick was reading the right sh-t when he was young.

Methinks he was taking the right sh-t when he was young too.

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Rocky Dijon

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keefriffhards

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Rocky Dijon
Not likely. "Almost Hear You Sigh" has a songwriting credit for Steve Jordan because the track originated with the TALK IS CHEAP sessions (although Mick completely rewrote the verses). Had anything else made it to release from those sessions, Steve Jordan would have been credited. "Almost Hear You Sigh" and "One More Shot" are the only Rolling Stones tracks that see Steve Jordan receiving a songwriting credit. Nothing else left over from TALK IS CHEAP made it to STEEL WHEELS.

You don't know that for sure.
Maybe Keith had some songs that he had worked on his own, without Jordan's input.
Or maybe they just were not finished enough to need to credit Steve Jordon.
By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith, and there was me saying Jagger's strong point was the melodys lol. Maybe Keith is modest when is comes to claiming who wrote what between him and Mick.

Ding round 2

Actually it's you that doesn't know things for sure. However, these things matter far more to you so we'll let your junior high cheerleader version of reality be the one that counts. You'll have to do better than this to get me back in the ring. It's like fighting a child.

now your just being childish

It's "you're" not your, but yes, I was. Now do the proper thing and challenge me. This is supposed to be entertaining. Stick to the script.

HOGWASH, HMS!! You can't really believe Keith TAUGHT MICK how to write! As I recall, Andrew Oldham MADE them learn writing skills together. Now, granted, in the very beginning, Mick was not a guitar player so Keith may have taught Mick the chords BUT he did not teach Mick lyric writing or even melody writing, for that matter.
" As Tears Go By", one of their first creations is beautifully simple, written by both Mick & Keith. As someone said earlier, Mick is the poetic one but he " hears melodies in his head" just as Keith does....foolish statement, IMO.

Wouldn't STONED have been Mick's first shot at some lyrics ....
And ya gotta say he sure did a fine job at gettin' all dem words inta da right place ....



ROCKMAN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-27 04:36 by Rockman.

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keefriffhards

By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith
Ding round 2

Good lck finding any melody in this 87/88 demo. It sounds like someone trying to play "Beast Of Burden" and failing at it. Jagger is the one who fleshed out the Richards/Jordan skeleton and Jordan got a co-writting credit as part of the "WW III armistice" between Keef and Mick.

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dcba

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keefriffhards

By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith
Ding round 2

Good lck finding any melody in this 87/88 demo. It sounds like someone trying to play "Beast Of Burden" and failing at it. Jagger is the one who fleshed out the Richards/Jordan skeleton and Jordan got a co-writting credit as part of the "WW III armistice" between Keef and Mick.

I was just kidding about with Rocky, don't take that post literally, it was me being an idiot Agreed Mick did a great job of finishing that particular track.

BTW Its very easy to take one sentence from a long conversation or disagreement and take the whole thing out of context. Happens on here a lot on here. People say silly things when they are in the middle of a heated discussion and feel exasperated..

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keefriffhards

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dcba

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keefriffhards

By the way that you tube clip of Keith singing Almost hear you Sigh without lyrics had something going for it. The guts was taken out of that track. The melody was much better with Keith
Ding round 2

Good lck finding any melody in this 87/88 demo. It sounds like someone trying to play "Beast Of Burden" and failing at it. Jagger is the one who fleshed out the Richards/Jordan skeleton and Jordan got a co-writting credit as part of the "WW III armistice" between Keef and Mick.

I was just kidding about with Rocky, don't take that post literally, it was me being an idiot Agreed Mick did a great job of finishing that particular track.

BTW Its very easy to take one sentence from a long conversation or disagreement and take the whole thing out of context. Happens on here a lot on here. People say silly things when they are in the middle of a heated discussion and feel exasperated..

in real life too :-)

Anyway Sigh... displays once again Jagger's talent. It's this one he picked for a rework not the snooze-fest "She Put The Mark On Me"! ><

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mickschix
HOGWASH, HMS!! You can't really believe Keith TAUGHT MICK how to write! As I recall, Andrew Oldham MADE them learn writing skills together. Now, granted, in the very beginning, Mick was not a guitar player so Keith may have taught Mick the chords BUT he did not teach Mick lyric writing or even melody writing, for that matter.
" As Tears Go By", one of their first creations is beautifully simple, written by both Mick & Keith. As someone said earlier, Mick is the poetic one but he " hears melodies in his head" just as Keith does....foolish statement, IMO.

Without Keith Mick would have never ever penned a line in his life. Take a look at his solo-albums and it is clear to see how poor his songwriting-skills are when Keith is not around. Mick´s solo-efforts sound best when he is trying to write in Keith-style. As for lyrics, he is not much of a poet, it´s quite the same all over again. Without Keith he is completely lost. Ever was, always will be. Keith is the major force in the Stones-universe. Like a plant needs the sun, Mick needs Keith, he needed him back then and he even more needs him now.

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HMS

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mickschix
HOGWASH, HMS!! You can't really believe Keith TAUGHT MICK how to write! As I recall, Andrew Oldham MADE them learn writing skills together. Now, granted, in the very beginning, Mick was not a guitar player so Keith may have taught Mick the chords BUT he did not teach Mick lyric writing or even melody writing, for that matter.
" As Tears Go By", one of their first creations is beautifully simple, written by both Mick & Keith. As someone said earlier, Mick is the poetic one but he " hears melodies in his head" just as Keith does....foolish statement, IMO.

Without Keith Mick would have never ever penned a line in his life. Take a look at his solo-albums and it is clear to see how poor his songwriting-skills are when Keith is not around. Mick´s solo-efforts sound best when he is trying to write in Keith-style. As for lyrics, he is not much of a poet, it´s quite the same all over again. Without Keith he is completely lost. Ever was, always will be. Keith is the major force in the Stones-universe. Like a plant needs the sun, Mick needs Keith, he needed him back then and he even more needs him now.

Agreed. Mick had Pete Townsend, Dave Stewart, Jeff Beck and a host of brilliant musicians on hand, but he just cant cut the mustard without Keith with him.
He put everything into those solo albums and sacrificed Stones Material for them and still they turned out, well, Average. Not a lot of the word genius comes to mind when you think of She's The Boss etc.
Don't get me wrong i love Mick but i see his solo outing as a true indication of his limits without his glimmer twin.
Please people don't take my thoughts personally or as a personal attack. They are my thoughts about how Mick let himself and the band down in what should of been their prime of life. I take it to heart that Mick made me wait all those years to see the Stones in 89'
Micks solo efforts were an incredible waste of time, Keith was on fire in the 80's he was all dressed up with no where to go.
I admit good came from it, they have been a touring force for over 25 years since 89' so No Worries.

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keefriffhards

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HMS

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mickschix
HOGWASH, HMS!! You can't really believe Keith TAUGHT MICK how to write! As I recall, Andrew Oldham MADE them learn writing skills together. Now, granted, in the very beginning, Mick was not a guitar player so Keith may have taught Mick the chords BUT he did not teach Mick lyric writing or even melody writing, for that matter.
" As Tears Go By", one of their first creations is beautifully simple, written by both Mick & Keith. As someone said earlier, Mick is the poetic one but he " hears melodies in his head" just as Keith does....foolish statement, IMO.

Without Keith Mick would have never ever penned a line in his life. Take a look at his solo-albums and it is clear to see how poor his songwriting-skills are when Keith is not around. Mick´s solo-efforts sound best when he is trying to write in Keith-style. As for lyrics, he is not much of a poet, it´s quite the same all over again. Without Keith he is completely lost. Ever was, always will be. Keith is the major force in the Stones-universe. Like a plant needs the sun, Mick needs Keith, he needed him back then and he even more needs him now.

Agreed. Mick had Pete Townsend, Dave Stewart, Jeff Beck and a host of brilliant musicians on hand, but he just cant cut the mustard without Keith with him.
He put everything into those solo albums and sacrificed Stones Material for them and still they turned out, well, Average. Not a lot of the word genius comes to mind when you think of She's The Boss etc.
Don't get me wrong i love Mick but i see his solo outing as a true indication of his limits without his glimmer twin.
Please people don't take my thoughts personally or as a personal attack. They are my thoughts about how Mick let himself and the band down in what should of been their prime of life. I take it to heart that Mick made me wait all those years to see the Stones in 89'
Micks solo efforts were an incredible waste of time, Keith was on fire in the 80's he was all dressed up with no where to go.
I admit good came from it, they have been a touring force for over 25 years since 89' so No Worries.

Both Jagger's and Keith's solo albums are average at best. They do nothing to me and cannot even stand in the shadow of the worst Stones album. Besides, both needed the band to make the songs they 'wrote' really special.

As for the lyrics: Jagger has certainly written some fine lyrics indeed, no doubt about that. But calling him a poet is too far stretched.

Now Bob Dylan's a poet.
The lyrics just poor out of him, even today..

Mick and Keith are complementary, their solo albums are not masterpieces, but between Wandering Spirit and Talk is Cheap, WS is much better!

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Testify
Mick and Keith are complementary, their solo albums are not masterpieces, but between Wandering Spirit and Talk is Cheap, WS is much better!

For teenagers...Cheap offers more sophisticated fare