It had to be mixed the way Love You Live was. Kick off Bob Clearmountain he is good for nothing except ruining all the superb live-recordings of the last decades.

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StonedRambler
Here I Got The Blues for those who didn't buy it on iTunes
[www.youtube.com]

Its just too much Delay and Reverb

Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

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Naturalust
Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

You're welcome!
Just found Sister Morphine [www.youtube.com] and Bitch [www.youtube.com] from the same uploader.
The problem is the same on all tracks but the fast tracks sound as if the stage would be far away, the slow ones sound like played in a big bathroom as you said. That's really a shame because the playing is superb.
What's wrong with Bob Clearmountain?
He has done Live Licks, Stripped, Shine A Light etc. and they sound excellent.
When you listen to the soundboard snippets from the stones yt channel they already sound great.

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StonedRambler

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Naturalust
Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

You're welcome!
Just found Sister Morphine [www.youtube.com] and Bitch [www.youtube.com] from the same uploader.
The problem is the same on all tracks but the fast tracks sound as if the stage would be far away, the slow ones sound like played in a big bathroom as you said. That's really a shame because the playing is superb.
What's wrong with Bob Clearmountain?
He has done Live Licks, Stripped, Shine A Light etc. and they sound excellent.
When you listen to the soundboard snippets from the stones yt channel they already sound great.

Wow. Sister Morphine and I Got the Blues are played really well. I understand why people are excited over this release. Ronnie really kicks some ass on Morphine. That's the best I've heard him play in a long time, maybe ever. Sweet! Now I feel a bit ripped off that these two tunes didn't see the light of day on the Zip Code Tour. They would have been fantastic, wtf were they thinking?! They could have had a million people talking about how great Morphine was, would have been a highlight of the shows, imo...damn.

I wouldn't necessarily blame Bob C. for the results of the mix. He is only trying to please the folks he is working for. Might even of had a drier crisper mix and Jagger said "make it sound more live". In the end it's still Mick and Keith that pick (and direct) the mixes. Certainly the excitement of the performance shines through and they probably sound better that the actual show did.

But hopefully someone in the Stones camp is listening to us here and we will get a different mix and mastering for the DVD/CD release of this one. I can't wait.

Thanks again Rambler, that was great to hear.

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Naturalust

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StonedRambler

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Naturalust
Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

You're welcome!
Just found Sister Morphine [www.youtube.com] and Bitch [www.youtube.com] from the same uploader.
The problem is the same on all tracks but the fast tracks sound as if the stage would be far away, the slow ones sound like played in a big bathroom as you said. That's really a shame because the playing is superb.
What's wrong with Bob Clearmountain?
He has done Live Licks, Stripped, Shine A Light etc. and they sound excellent.
When you listen to the soundboard snippets from the stones yt channel they already sound great.

Wow. Sister Morphine and I Got the Blues are played really well. I understand why people are excited over this release. Ronnie really kicks some ass on Morphine. That's the best I've heard him play in a long time, maybe ever. Sweet! Now I feel a bit ripped off that these two tunes didn't see the light of day on the Zip Code Tour. They would have been fantastic, wtf were they thinking?! They could have had a million people talking about how great Morphine was, would have been a highlight of the shows, imo...damn.

I wouldn't necessarily blame Bob C. for the results of the mix. He is only trying to please the folks he is working for. Might even of had a drier crisper mix and Jagger said "make it sound more live". In the end it's still Mick and Keith that pick (and direct) the mixes. Certainly the excitement of the performance shines through and they probably sound better that the actual show did.

But hopefully someone in the Stones camp is listening to us here and we will get a different mix and mastering for the DVD/CD release of this one. I can't wait.

Thanks again Rambler, that was great to hear.

Wrote an email to him. Let's see if he writes back.

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StonedRambler

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Naturalust

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StonedRambler

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Naturalust
Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

You're welcome!
Just found Sister Morphine [www.youtube.com] and Bitch [www.youtube.com] from the same uploader.
The problem is the same on all tracks but the fast tracks sound as if the stage would be far away, the slow ones sound like played in a big bathroom as you said. That's really a shame because the playing is superb.
What's wrong with Bob Clearmountain?
He has done Live Licks, Stripped, Shine A Light etc. and they sound excellent.
When you listen to the soundboard snippets from the stones yt channel they already sound great.

Wow. Sister Morphine and I Got the Blues are played really well. I understand why people are excited over this release. Ronnie really kicks some ass on Morphine. That's the best I've heard him play in a long time, maybe ever. Sweet! Now I feel a bit ripped off that these two tunes didn't see the light of day on the Zip Code Tour. They would have been fantastic, wtf were they thinking?! They could have had a million people talking about how great Morphine was, would have been a highlight of the shows, imo...damn.

I wouldn't necessarily blame Bob C. for the results of the mix. He is only trying to please the folks he is working for. Might even of had a drier crisper mix and Jagger said "make it sound more live". In the end it's still Mick and Keith that pick (and direct) the mixes. Certainly the excitement of the performance shines through and they probably sound better that the actual show did.

But hopefully someone in the Stones camp is listening to us here and we will get a different mix and mastering for the DVD/CD release of this one. I can't wait.

Thanks again Rambler, that was great to hear.

Wrote an email to him. Let's see if he writes back.

Nice idea. I've met the man a couple of times. Could probably get it touch if necessary. If you don't hear back let me know and I'll give it a try.

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scottkeef

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LieB
scottkeef, which Leeds Lungs release do you consider the best? They're all mono, aren't they?

I have three cds ( Pig's "Leeds Revisited". Turd's "Leed Guitars-Movie Stars" and SM's release) and for me the Pig's version is hands down the best.

I have Turd's version. I thought it was the same as the Pig's though.

Wow, that was fast
Bob (don't know why Gmail says Robert Clearmountain) seems to be a very nice guy. So it was like you suspected Naturalust, it's Mick's fault
But if the DVD will get the original mix I will be happy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-28 19:24 by StonedRambler.

Any guesses on DVD release date????

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StonedRambler

Wow, that was fast
Bob (don't know why Gmail says Robert Clearmountain) seems to be a very nice guy. So it was like you suspected Naturalust, it's Mick's fault
But if the DVD will get the original mix I will be happy

Yep, just as I suspected. Excellent follow up and post Rambler, you rock! I cringe when I hear people slag Mr. Clearmountain since he is very capable but in the end always delivers the mixes his clients want. One of the reasons he's in such great demand. Too bad you didn't ask about the brickwalling, I have a feeling he also does this to please the people paying his fee.

AND, the best news yet is that this will indeed come out on video with a better mix! Couldn't be happier I have a feeling this will be very very good. Fingers crossed that the drier mix also has super dynamic range.

Thanks again Rambler, this was one of the most interesting posts in a long time!

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StonedRambler

Wow, that was fast
Bob (don't know why Gmail says Robert Clearmountain) seems to be a very nice guy. So it was like you suspected Naturalust, it's Mick's fault
But if the DVD will get the original mix I will be happy

Very cool, thanks for sharing that SR

Drier ? Wetter ?

Great news anyway. Thanks for inquiring.

drier-wetter ........... rice cracker or sponge cake



ROCKMAN

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kowalski
Drier ? Wetter ?

Great news anyway. Thanks for inquiring.

In the mixing world dry means little or no effects used on the signals and wet means effects are used. In this case the mix is obviously "wet", mainly due to the liberal use of reverb.

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HMS
Mr. Clearmountain ruined every Stones-Live-release of the last decades. Maybe he has lost his hearing or he simply doesn´t like guitars at all.

I agree, probably one of those engineers who want balance, @#$%& balance I say, more guitar.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-29 06:15 by lapaz62.

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Naturalust

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kowalski
Drier ? Wetter ?

Great news anyway. Thanks for inquiring.

In the mixing world dry means little or no effects used on the signals and wet means effects are used. In this case the mix is obviously "wet", mainly due to the liberal use of reverb.

Thanks. Makes more sens now!

Engineers these days are obsessed with adding plugins and compression to everything, regardless of whether it needs it or not. Take out everything below 100hz then another cut between 300 and 500 because somehow instruments now fight for the same space, when they never did before, how did those Olde Timey Engineers ever do it.

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lapaz62
Engineers these days are obsessed with adding plugins and compression to everything, regardless of whether it needs it or not. Take out everything below 100hz then another cut between 300 and 500 because somehow instruments now fight for the same space, when they never did before, how did those Olde Timey Engineers ever do it.

Lol. You are right to a certain extent. With all the technology available these days there is less effort made to get the sounds and levels right during the recording process since everything can be fixed in the mix. I'm amazed at the great music that was produced on 4 track machines when they had to commit to what they recorded every time they bounced tracks around to free up new ones, never to be individually tweaked again.

As far as your more guitar comment goes it actually makes sense considering how the Stones have been mixed live these days. The guitars have sure dominated the live sound this tour and it has been delightful. But I think you might be somewhat disappointed to hear what a mix that hasn't been tweaked to get balance and separation of instruments. Things can get really muddy in a hurry and it can actually detract from hearing the guitars right when things like piano and bass are competing for space and sonic range.

My favorite mixes are the ones where different instruments are jumping out at you at different times. One second it's the guitar fill, the next it's the bass run, then the keyboard part, then another guitar part, etc. etc. Like the classic guitar weave concept, a weave of the mix can be fantastic. It emphasizes the effect the bands should be trying to achieve on their own but often don't because the levels aren't right or someone is overplaying or hearing things differently on stage.

But as Bob C.points out it's the artists themselves who are directing and approving the mixes and they are generally the ones to blame or credit for the results.

[youtu.be]

This is how the Chili Peppers are mixed live, it's a different but interesting method, seems like a jacked up version of parallel compression to me.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-30 10:39 by lapaz62.

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Naturalust
Yep, just as I suspected. Excellent follow up and post Rambler, you rock! I cringe when I hear people slag Mr. Clearmountain since he is very capable but in the end always delivers the mixes his clients want. One of the reasons he's in such great demand. Too bad you didn't ask about the brickwalling, I have a feeling he also does this to please the people paying his fee.

AND, the best news yet is that this will indeed come out on video with a better mix! Couldn't be happier I have a feeling this will be very very good. Fingers crossed that the drier mix also has super dynamic range.

Thanks again Rambler, this was one of the most interesting posts in a long time!

Glad to hear that! Indeed a very interesting topic. You're right, that's what every good mixer has to do
- delivering what the client wants to have and also making compromises when you have a different opinion.
In this case Mick should just rely on Bob. I doubt Mick has much knowledge of mixing.
Maybe it sounded to dry for him because he used a certain pair of headphones or he still had pressure on his ears from the evening before, so he wanted to hear it a bit more 'open'.
How a mix sounds depends on many different factors. And I guess with brickwalling it's the same. Mick listens to the mixes and notices that he has to turn up the volume more than usually, so he says to Bob the mix has to be louder.

I would love when the mix would be simular to the actual live mix of Dave Natale. Loud and powerful guitars on the top and drums just peaking out when Charlie hits something really hard.

But really looking forward to the DVD/Blueray. I'm even looking forward to Start Me Up, JJF, All Down The Line.. Because they play those songs now better than they have done for a long time.

Just hope the DVD/ Blu Ray release will be the whole show.

Plus, I hope they do not shorten the show to put it on a single CD. And I want the running order of the original concert both on CD and DVD. And I want it NOW.

The sound of Bob Clearmountain original mixes can be heard on the Japanese edition of Hampton Coliseum CD - not the regular CD available everywhere but the CD featuring the uncompressed soundtrack from the DVD. Sounds so much better than the regular and heavily compressed CD...

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Naturalust

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StonedRambler
Here I Got The Blues for those who didn't buy it on iTunes
[www.youtube.com]

Its just too much Delay and Reverb

Yes it's a bit too live sounding for sure, like they're playing in a big bathroom or something. Too bad because the performance is really good. Much thanks for the post Rambler.

I finally have something good to say about Leavell - he does the organ part quite nicely.

Clearmountain has nothing to do with the brickwalling unless he's also mastering the album.

Bob's work with the Stones:

Miss You single
TATTOO YOU
STILL LIFE
STEEL WHEELS tour 1989 Atlantic City pay per view
Out Of Tears single
VOODOO LOUNGE tour Miami pay per view
I Go Wild live b-side for I Go Wild single - it's from Miami
STRIPPED
LIVE LICKS
THE BIGGEST BANG DVD box set
SHINE A LIGHT
EXILE RARITIES
STICKY FINGERS reissue live material
STICKY FINGERS LIVE

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GasLightStreet
Clearmountain has nothing to do with the brickwalling unless he's also mastering the album.

Sorry to inform you GLS but dynamic range can be compressed away in the mixing process just as easily as the mastering process. I doubt that's the case for the Fonda show but plenty of master recordings are already over compressed when they are delivered to the mastering engineer. It's not purely a mastering thing although that is indeed the case with many older recordings which have been remastered to achieve a louder sounding finished product.

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Naturalust

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GasLightStreet
Clearmountain has nothing to do with the brickwalling unless he's also mastering the album.

Sorry to inform you GLS but dynamic range can be compressed away in the mixing process just as easily as the mastering process. I doubt that's the case for the Fonda show but plenty of master recordings are already over compressed when they are delivered to the mastering engineer. It's not purely a mastering thing although that is indeed the case with many older recordings which have been remastered to achieve a louder sounding finished product.

Yeah... shit. I started thinking about that. Mixing can be done as hot as possible with as much squashing as possible to make it not blow past 10. So the mastering... can only keep it at 10, hence a double brickwalling? Ha ha! Maybe.

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GasLightStreet

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Naturalust

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GasLightStreet
Clearmountain has nothing to do with the brickwalling unless he's also mastering the album.

Sorry to inform you GLS but dynamic range can be compressed away in the mixing process just as easily as the mastering process. I doubt that's the case for the Fonda show but plenty of master recordings are already over compressed when they are delivered to the mastering engineer. It's not purely a mastering thing although that is indeed the case with many older recordings which have been remastered to achieve a louder sounding finished product.

Yeah... shit. I started thinking about that. Mixing can be done as hot as possible with as much squashing as possible to make it not blow past 10. So the mastering... can only keep it at 10, hence a double brickwalling? Ha ha! Maybe.

I do hope you are right concerning the SF Live mix! If the DR is good on the CD/DVD release as I suspect it will be, I will be delighted. The typical thing that I notice on brickwalled recordings is that transient and loud events like the snare drum crack get compressed into the relative volume of the rest of the music and it tends to destroy the back beat emphasis that makes all those great recordings from the 70's so good. It's Charlie's performance that gets affected the most and he's probably the least likely to complain about it! In fact I believe he says he never even listens to the records.

It seems, based on what Bob said in that email response, that there's nothing to suggest that he brickwalled it until, possibly, when Mick asked him to change it. I just doubt Mick would want it smashed in the mix, though. Mick's done some mixing, he knows these things.

If Marcussen mastered it... then there's your brickwall.