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stonehearted
<<Filler was when the record company wanted to cash in on a band that had two hit singles (with two b-sides) and threw them in a studio for three days so they could release an album.>>
Yes, but by that definition this also includes....
Rolling Stones No. 1, recorded after having had two hit singles (with two B-sides).
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andrewtQuote
stonehearted
<<Filler was when the record company wanted to cash in on a band that had two hit singles (with two b-sides) and threw them in a studio for three days so they could release an album.>>
Yes, but by that definition this also includes....
Rolling Stones No. 1, recorded after having had two hit singles (with two B-sides).
Yep. That's the album with Now I Got A Witness on it.
That's brazen filler.
Probably the first album where they consciously tried not to include filler was Aftermath.
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Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
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whitem8
Nothing on Exile is filler. They set out to make a double album. They recorded more than enough for three albums. Yet, they selected every song to purposely be on Exile. So no filler.
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carlorossiQuote
Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
I won't debate the merits of the Indian Girl, but "filler" means that it's plainly obvious that the band and/or songwriter just wasn't into it and therefore didn't put any serious work into it.
With Indian Girl, that's not obvious to me. Same with Winter and Break the Spell. Which is more filler, Streets of Love or Sweet Neocon? While SOL ain't that great, Mick seems to have put some serious effort into writing it. The band's fingerprints were minimal, but I won't call it filler. Sweet Neocon has a good title, but there's no evidence that anyone in the band cared one damn bit about this song. Filler. "Too Tough" is filler. I don't even know why I like that song. But it ain't because of the lyrics/performance/arrangement/energy. Mailed it straight in. Maybe that's why I like it!
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Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
winter on GHS
cherry oh baby on B&B
these are examples of filler.
factory girl = not filler
But they didn't so it is a moot point. Mick particularly spent a lot of time deciding the tracks for the album and track order. They did more production in LA with additional backing musicians, etc. Exile has no filler. Its a very concerted artistic statement.Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
whitem8
Nothing on Exile is filler. They set out to make a double album. They recorded more than enough for three albums. Yet, they selected every song to purposely be on Exile. So no filler.
I doubt you'd say that if they had used all that was recorded in France and nothing from the SF sessions...
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Turner68Quote
andrewtQuote
stonehearted
<<Filler was when the record company wanted to cash in on a band that had two hit singles (with two b-sides) and threw them in a studio for three days so they could release an album.>>
Yes, but by that definition this also includes....
Rolling Stones No. 1, recorded after having had two hit singles (with two B-sides).
Yep. That's the album with Now I Got A Witness on it.
That's brazen filler.
Probably the first album where they consciously tried not to include filler was Aftermath.
Any idea why they stopped this policy in the 70s
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carlorossiQuote
Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
I won't debate the merits of the Indian Girl, but "filler" means that it's plainly obvious that the band and/or songwriter just wasn't into it and therefore didn't put any serious work into it.
With Indian Girl, that's not obvious to me. Same with Winter and Break the Spell. Which is more filler, Streets of Love or Sweet Neocon? While SOL ain't that great, Mick seems to have put some serious effort into writing it. The band's fingerprints were minimal, but I won't call it filler. Sweet Neocon has a good title, but there's no evidence that anyone in the band cared one damn bit about this song. Filler. "Too Tough" is filler. I don't even know why I like that song. But it ain't because of the lyrics/performance/arrangement/energy. Mailed it straight in. Maybe that's why I like it!
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GasLightStreet
On a double album that is scraping the barrel of things that are optional for time on an album to "fill it out", EXILE has that (and their 3 recent, on vinyl anyway, double albums, VL, BTB and ABB, clearly have filler). After all, they dipped into previous sessions to fill out the album since it's not all from France because, as Keith stated, they wanted to 'throw it all in there' - even though it clearly wasn't "everything". And obviously they didn't finish all that they could've from the France sessions. They used some leftovers from the STICKY FINGERS sessions for whatever reason instead.
Why people can't objectively hear filler on EXILE is beyond me.
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bitusa2012
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carlorossiQuote
bitusa2012
Sweet Neocon has a good title, but there's no evidence that anyone in the band cared one damn bit about this song.
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Witness
However, the Four Tops' version of the Monkees' hit "Last Train to Clarksville" appears to me as an ideal case of the definition of 'filler'.
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treaclefingers
high praise indeed
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andrewtQuote
Witness
However, the Four Tops' version of the Monkees' hit "Last Train to Clarksville" appears to me as an ideal case of the definition of 'filler'.
Can we agree that the Stones version of the Temptations hit "My Girl" is filler?
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andrewtQuote
Witness
However, the Four Tops' version of the Monkees' hit "Last Train to Clarksville" appears to me as an ideal case of the definition of 'filler'.
Can we agree that the Stones version of the Temptations hit "My Girl" is filler?
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drbryantQuote
GasLightStreet
On a double album that is scraping the barrel of things that are optional for time on an album to "fill it out", EXILE has that (and their 3 recent, on vinyl anyway, double albums, VL, BTB and ABB, clearly have filler). After all, they dipped into previous sessions to fill out the album since it's not all from France because, as Keith stated, they wanted to 'throw it all in there' - even though it clearly wasn't "everything". And obviously they didn't finish all that they could've from the France sessions. They used some leftovers from the STICKY FINGERS sessions for whatever reason instead.
Why people can't objectively hear filler on EXILE is beyond me.
I wanted to address a couple of points in your post, which I have heard from other fans, because I think they come from Mick's misguided views of Exile expressed in interviews over the years.
First, that quote about wanting to "throw it all in there" is Mick, I believe (not 100% sure). And we all know that Mick "never understood why fans loved" Exile, because it "didn't have hits" and the "production was bad." Mick was just being influenced by the reviews at the time, which were not all positive. For all the incredible natural talent that he has, I have never seen a major rock star (with the possible exception of Paul McCartney), who so easily allows his opinions about his own work to be shaped by critics. By 2010, the critics have come around and Exile is often cited as the greatest rock album ever made. So, during interviews about the reissue, Mick explains that he was just being a jerk, and joking before: "People would say 'it's my favorite album' and I would reply 'it's not mine' just to be unpleasant. I really don't have a favorite". (or something like that, I don't have the interview. Maybe it's on the Stones in Exile DVD).
The idea of leftovers from the Sticky Fingers sessions being used as "filler" on Exile also comes from Mick's quotes. Keith's view is more accurate. All of the sessions - England, Nellcote, Los Angeles - are part of one continuous effort that resulted in two albums (SF and Exile). If you look at the tracks that were started during the Sticky Fingers sessions, I think you have Tumbling Dice, Sweet Virginia, All Down The Line, Stop Breaking Down, and maybe Sweet Black Angel (?). Maybe there are more. Hardly scraping the barrell.
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Turner68Quote
carlorossiQuote
Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
I won't debate the merits of the Indian Girl, but "filler" means that it's plainly obvious that the band and/or songwriter just wasn't into it and therefore didn't put any serious work into it.
With Indian Girl, that's not obvious to me. Same with Winter and Break the Spell. Which is more filler, Streets of Love or Sweet Neocon? While SOL ain't that great, Mick seems to have put some serious effort into writing it. The band's fingerprints were minimal, but I won't call it filler. Sweet Neocon has a good title, but there's no evidence that anyone in the band cared one damn bit about this song. Filler. "Too Tough" is filler. I don't even know why I like that song. But it ain't because of the lyrics/performance/arrangement/energy. Mailed it straight in. Maybe that's why I like it!
it's all subjective i think, which is why it's interesting to talk about!
emotional rescue fits to me the pattern described above of a couple hits - emotional rescue and she's so cold - with a bunch of filler thrown in to make an album that can be released and sold. i think they phoned in most of the album honestly. if they'd wanted to make the best album possible perhaps they would have put some more songs from the SG/ER sessions on... clearly, it think, they wanted to save the other hits (SMU for example) for a future album.
i definitely agree with what you and others say about what might be filler actually turning out to be a great song, even if the band had no regard for it. artists are often not the best judges of their work - and time usually is. perhaps too tough is an example, i would also argue that much of EOMS the band might have considered filler (well, MJ at least) but turned out to be crucial to the album's status.
this is a good topic because there is no clear cut "right" answer and lots of opinions to discuss :-)
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Silver Dagger
A Bigger Bang - just about a whole album of filler. ><
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nightskymanQuote
Turner68Quote
carlorossiQuote
Turner68
indian girl on emotional rescue,
I won't debate the merits of the Indian Girl, but "filler" means that it's plainly obvious that the band and/or songwriter just wasn't into it and therefore didn't put any serious work into it.
With Indian Girl, that's not obvious to me. Same with Winter and Break the Spell. Which is more filler, Streets of Love or Sweet Neocon? While SOL ain't that great, Mick seems to have put some serious effort into writing it. The band's fingerprints were minimal, but I won't call it filler. Sweet Neocon has a good title, but there's no evidence that anyone in the band cared one damn bit about this song. Filler. "Too Tough" is filler. I don't even know why I like that song. But it ain't because of the lyrics/performance/arrangement/energy. Mailed it straight in. Maybe that's why I like it!
it's all subjective i think, which is why it's interesting to talk about!
emotional rescue fits to me the pattern described above of a couple hits - emotional rescue and she's so cold - with a bunch of filler thrown in to make an album that can be released and sold. i think they phoned in most of the album honestly. if they'd wanted to make the best album possible perhaps they would have put some more songs from the SG/ER sessions on... clearly, it think, they wanted to save the other hits (SMU for example) for a future album.
i definitely agree with what you and others say about what might be filler actually turning out to be a great song, even if the band had no regard for it. artists are often not the best judges of their work - and time usually is. perhaps too tough is an example, i would also argue that much of EOMS the band might have considered filler (well, MJ at least) but turned out to be crucial to the album's status.
this is a good topic because there is no clear cut "right" answer and lots of opinions to discuss :-)
Following the Some Girls album, there was no way Emotional Rescue be anything other than what you just described. So I'd say many 'filler' tracks on that particular album.
This is why the 1968-1972 period was so strong, the peak of Stones creativity and output. Four LPs in a row during that period that were simply great, sealing the Stones place in pop rock history as one of the all-time great rock groups.
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Silver Dagger
A Bigger Bang - just about a whole album of filler. ><
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latebloomer
One person's filler is another person's treasure. Case in point, Winter. It is adored by many, including myself. Go call it filler over on the MT thread and you might lose your own...