Between Carrier Dome and Skydome/Rogers Centre, many of the Stones shows I have seen since 1989 have been in domed stadiums. Sometimes the sound was amazing. Other shows were just horrible (at one Carrier Dome show it was difficult for much of the set to even tell what the band was playing). Outdoors in Toronto in 1994 the sound was clear but not remotely loud enough (not load enough to drown out conversations happening all around). SarsFest had amazing sound for all the bands, until the Stones came out and had a muddy sound, with really poorly mixed guitars.My first Stones show in 1978 had horrible sound.

What should I expect in Buffalo on Saturday?

This tour has been better than others. My main gripe this time around is the fact that Charlie's high hat is barely ever in the mix and the snare still sounds like a muddy tom. Not to mention the fact that the guitars appear and disappear in the mix constantly. Frequently Ronnie is SLAYING and is inaudible in the background.

The PA is solid, if you are being hit by it. Get in a dead spot and it'll be muddy.

I was at the show in Pittsburgh on June 20. Sorry folks from my seat I thought the sound was horrible. It was my 43rd time seeing the Stones and I was really disappointed.

I was dead center but about as far back and as high as you can go at Arrowhead and the sound was amazing.

Off to Ronnie's side in Nashville, but the mix sounded mostly good, as far as I remember...it was so freakin hot that it felt like watching a show while standing in the middle of a sauna.
Pittsburgh we were in the lower level on Keith's side. Very good sound there, but son who was up in the 500's on the same side, said the vocals were low.
Oddly enough, at both shows, I though Lisa was hard to hear on Shelter, though I know Naturalust will argue differently. But I was there, you know.

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latebloomer
Off to Ronnie's side in Nashville, but the mix sounded mostly good, as far as I remember...it was so freakin hot that it felt like watching a show while standing in the middle of a sauna.
Pittsburgh we were in the lower level on Keith's side. Very good sound there, but son who was up in the 500's on the same side, said the vocals were low.
Oddly enough, at both shows, I though Lisa was hard to hear on Shelter, though I know Naturalust will argue differently. But I was there, you know.

Naw bloomer I won't argue with you since I wasn't there and the sound has shown to be quite different depending on where you're at in these stadiums. I will say I'm jealous you got such a good mix of Shelter.

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Naturalust

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latebloomer
Off to Ronnie's side in Nashville, but the mix sounded mostly good, as far as I remember...it was so freakin hot that it felt like watching a show while standing in the middle of a sauna.
Pittsburgh we were in the lower level on Keith's side. Very good sound there, but son who was up in the 500's on the same side, said the vocals were low.
Oddly enough, at both shows, I though Lisa was hard to hear on Shelter, though I know Naturalust will argue differently. But I was there, you know.

Naw bloomer I won't argue with you since I wasn't there and the sound has shown to be quite different depending on where you're at in these stadiums. I will say I'm jealous you got such a good mix of Shelter.

Touche, my friend.

What does everyone expect for $430?

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[email protected]
What does everyone expect for $430?

True. It is 2015. Sound should not be a problem, it should be the priority, over spending on pyro, video, stage and lights. Not sure why the band has not get it figured out. What told me lot was SarsFest where the Stones had the worst sound of the day. From Isley Bros on that day all was pristine with sound, till the Stones got on stage. Flat, muddy mix, guitars missing at times.

Is it their sound engineers? Lick of sound checks? Or is someone mixing problem areas purposely low (maybe Keith's playing back a few years ago?). I just can't think of why it's so difficult.

sounds like the Stones to me

I've not seen the Stones live since 1994, the last time in the Louisiana Superdome and it sounded awful because there were only 25 people there but I saw them earlier in the tour in East Lansing, MI and it was surprisingly decent for being outside.

The best sound of the 3 shows I've seen was the 2nd show at the Silverdome in Pontiac, MI. That was incredibly clear and loud.

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buffalo7478

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[email protected]
What does everyone expect for $430?

True. It is 2015. Sound should not be a problem, it should be the priority, over spending on pyro, video, stage and lights. Not sure why the band has not get it figured out. What told me lot was SarsFest where the Stones had the worst sound of the day. From Isley Bros on that day all was pristine with sound, till the Stones got on stage. Flat, muddy mix, guitars missing at times.

Is it their sound engineers? Lick of sound checks? Or is someone mixing problem areas purposely low (maybe Keith's playing back a few years ago?). I just can't think of why it's so difficult.

I would say the first problem is the engineering. Charlie's drum sound is the muddiest I have ever heard. If you are in the direct line of fire of the PA system, then you are ok. But the truth it that is should sound 'too crisp' if you are hit directly. That way it sounds clean throughout the rest of the venue. In Nashville, for example, Brad Paisley and his entire band sounded PHENOMENAL. They were actually louder and clearer than the Stones. It had me pumped. The snare cracked, kick drum thumped, guitars were crisp, detailed and extraordinarily loud and vocals and bass were perfect. Whoever runs sound for Paisley is completely an industry pro.

When the Stones hit the stage, JJFlash was decent volume but Keith's guitar was not clean, just loud. Almost as if no EQ was applied. Snare was loud but muddy, and sounded like a tom the rest of the show. There was almost NO highhat in the mix all night. Snare had no clarity, no crack. Kick was fine but could have used some more contact for proper impact. Ronnie came and went in the mix. Charlie's crash came through ok in the mix, but we could hardly hear any ride cymbal all night. Additionally, Jagger's mic frequently needed more compression, same with Keith when he sang vocals.

If you can't hear Charlie's kit properly, the whole band will sound like a muddy mess. To me it is as if everything is being run SUPER raw on front of house. I run sound frequently, and although I love riding the faders, I always apply EQ. The lone exception is when a guitar tone is perfect coming down the channels. Sometimes proper mic pairing and placement will make for perfect EQ on a guitar amp, but that is exceedingly rare.

Bottom line: It is all opinion. I am certain many will disagree with my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I think the mix is too muddy. Even being in the direct prime impact zone of the PA, the sound was loud but not nearly as crisp and clean as it needed to be. Charlie's highhat is SORELY missing on every single show I have heard so far.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-07-05 22:02 by flacnvinyl.

In San Diego I thought the guitars were the loudest and crispest that I've ever heard.

FOH engineer is in over his head. Stuck on unproven concepts of no compression or limiting at a live show. Not certain who came up with this notion, his heavy handed fader moves sort of worked in arenas but the bigger the system the more you need to control the peeks and maintain an even sound for those in tricky seats.

A lot of times it does in fact depend on the venue. I have always worn earplugs to the shows and find that it somewhat actually cleans the mix a bit for me by removing some of the bass. However, in general I really hear no dynamic changes in stadium shows. They seem all about generating revenue even more so than arena shows. Of 450+ concerts I have been to, I don't ever recall leaving a stadium being impressed with the mix. It seems more about pumping the mid to mid low range and items such as pianos, and hi hats usually get lost in the mix, and bass drums appear muddy.
However, over the last 7 years I have been more impressed with arena sounds, a lot of times I can hear the different elements. Baseball stadium shows are not as bad as they are not 100% enclosed like football stadiums and you don't have the echo coming off of seats in back of the stage.
I haven't been to any 2015 Stones shows, so am not sure if the speaker layout is any different, but there is usually only sound in front of the stadium and really nothing in back or on the sides.

The 2015 sound is very strong.

Over the last couple of years, the only show that seemed to me to have a poor sound / mix was Glastonbury, which is a shame due to the fact it was such a high profile, (partly) televised event.

.....

Olly.

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DoomandGloom
FOH engineer is in over his head. Stuck on unproven concepts of no compression or limiting at a live show. Not certain who came up with this notion, his heavy handed fader moves sort of worked in arenas but the bigger the system the more you need to control the peeks and maintain an even sound for those in tricky seats.

Ha! back to this are we D&G? Like we've discussed I'm sure he had some limiters in line for super loud events. I think he's doing a fine job. Sound was great in San Diego from my seat anyway.

I truly don't think his mixing style is responsible for poor sound in the tricky seats. People sitting in these seats have said it started bad and stayed bad, likely due to the layout of the huge venues and limiting themselves to a single design for sound reinforcement. At least it looks like they've set it up the same way every time.

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JackHampshire
In San Diego I thought the guitars were the loudest and crispest that I've ever heard.

Same in KC, especially the solos, Ronnie's first in the opening number about knocked me out of my seat! ><

I remember going to see the Stones in'82 in Roundhay Park in Leeds and the sound in the arena was horrible, not at all like the recording that was issued a few years back. Maybe they should hire The Who's sound engineer, the sound in Hyde Park a couple of weeks back was just amazing.

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Ronaldo
I remember going to see the Stones in'82 in Roundhay Park in Leeds and the sound in the arena was horrible, not at all like the recording that was issued a few years back. Maybe they should hire The Who's sound engineer, the sound in Hyde Park a couple of weeks back was just amazing.

Over the years (1978/79, then 1981/82, then 1989) I would see The Who and The Stones a year apart or so, in some of the same cities and arenas or stadiums. The Who was always crisp, clear and powerful. The Stones would be muddy and left me sometimes wondering if Keith and Ronnie were really playing or if Charlie was as good a drummer as his reputation seemed to suggest. Even in the Who's vegas shows doing Tommy in the late 80s the sound was clear, even in huge stadiums.

I wonder if the Stones could hire The Who's people we'd have better sound? Maybe ticket prices would be lower if they shared the same PA and engineers (yes I am joking). Both bands would find a way to charge more. Though in the Stones case, I would feel better paying high prices knowing I would be wowed by the sound, not just the visual.

I used to promote shows in the early 80s and during a Little Feat gig, fans were literally stopping me as I walked thru the crowd to complain about the sound. It was too loud, too muddy, a distorted mess in a 600 seat venue. I went to the soundboard to talk to the band's engineer and he was already freaking out about the problems when I got there. I could hear him yelling 'this is my last show with these @#$%&...I quit'. I confronted him and his take was the band kept turning their amps up louder and louder on stage, and commanding the engineer running the on-stage monitors (in the era before ear-buds) to make the monitor mix louder. It was a mess...and though I at first was sure it was a problem at the soundboard, it may have been the musicians themselves. Lowell George was dead at that time and the remaining members were trying their first tour without him. No one in-charge on-stage. Maybe some of the Stones issues have been from people on-stage doing their own thing instead of playing within the parameters the engineer is expecting?

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buffalo7478

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Ronaldo
I remember going to see the Stones in'82 in Roundhay Park in Leeds and the sound in the arena was horrible, not at all like the recording that was issued a few years back. Maybe they should hire The Who's sound engineer, the sound in Hyde Park a couple of weeks back was just amazing.

Over the years (1978/79, then 1981/82, then 1989) I would see The Who and The Stones a year apart or so, in some of the same cities and arenas or stadiums. The Who was always crisp, clear and powerful. The Stones would be muddy and left me sometimes wondering if Keith and Ronnie were really playing or if Charlie was as good a drummer as his reputation seemed to suggest. Even in the Who's vegas shows doing Tommy in the late 80s the sound was clear, even in huge stadiums.

I wonder if the Stones could hire The Who's people we'd have better sound? Maybe ticket prices would be lower if they shared the same PA and engineers (yes I am joking). Both bands would find a way to charge more. Though in the Stones case, I would feel better paying high prices knowing I would be wowed by the sound, not just the visual.

I used to promote shows in the early 80s and during a Little Feat gig, fans were literally stopping me as I walked thru the crowd to complain about the sound. It was too loud, too muddy, a distorted mess in a 600 seat venue. I went to the soundboard to talk to the band's engineer and he was already freaking out about the problems when I got there. I could hear him yelling 'this is my last show with these @#$%&...I quit'. I confronted him and his take was the band kept turning their amps up louder and louder on stage, and commanding the engineer running the on-stage monitors (in the era before ear-buds) to make the monitor mix louder. It was a mess...and though I at first was sure it was a problem at the soundboard, it may have been the musicians themselves. Lowell George was dead at that time and the remaining members were trying their first tour without him. No one in-charge on-stage. Maybe some of the Stones issues have been from people on-stage doing their own thing instead of playing within the parameters the engineer is expecting?

I am surprised you had such experiences at a Little Feat show. Sounds to me like there were other issues going on. Very rarely do any pro musicians turn their amps up in order to increase their on stage volume. Perhaps if the amp tone isn't correct but the sound the musicians are keying into and playing off are almost exclusively from the monitors. I've seen Little Feat many times in large and small venues and the sound has almost always been fantastic.

This is what sound checks are for anyway. The most important part of a sound check is to set the monitor and house levels so that everyone is happy. I've seen the Stones and many other bands signal to the monitor engineer to adjust the levels during a show but I can't say I've ever seen any of them adjust their amps in a long time. The biggest challenges to a FOH engineer are always venue related, the best ones walk the entire venue to check the sound at different locations at one point during sound check or even during the show. I think any issues with Stones sound this tour are almost exclusively venue related too. Stadium sound is always going to be sketchy in some locations.

My experience in Pittsburgh is if you were in the back, straight shot from the stage, the sound was coming right at you and was very clear and mixed ok. On the sides, particularly higher up, it was so muddy it was inaudible at times. I think that may be more of a statement about the venue than about the Stones mix. With that said, there are no screens and no PA coming at you if you are on the sides, particularly close to the stage. My best vantage point in Pittsburgh, and I moved around a lot, was directly across from the stage, full frontal view and sound. If you are at the one end zone in Buffalo, you will have one of the best seats for sound.

I actually "taped" the Orlando show with an "old-school" Sony Walkman (I've done this since the early 90's) and have gone back and listened to it several times. And this show seems to not get the love as some of the others but this concert was pure magic! From the opening JJF to the closing Satisfaction. The sound was amazing and there were very little "flubs" I was 13 rows back in section F3 - right in front of a bank of speakers.