Tell Me :
Talk
Listen, I've been a fanatic since the spring of 81 as a 12 year old. I built many of my points of view on Keith's words and actions. To say I love the guy doesn't really begin to get it, but his playing and writing ability, and mindset have been tremendously affected by his self abuse as has Ronnie's Are you really disagreeing with me here? MJ has worked hard keeping himself in shape and it shows. Keith has not and it too shows. He has exhibited all the classic self delusions that any alcoholic/addict shows in terms of denial and bullshitting himself, talking about, "It's my iron constitution", and other such nonsense while people tell him how great he is. I know the arthritis is a major issue, but it's the only problem by a long shot.
Before the 50th anniversary tour started, Keith's ability to make a go of it was very much in question. If you recall, MJ talked about Keith's health being an impediment and he said, "There are no miracles in life." I don't think we need a crystal ball to understand what he was saying. I take no pleasure in pointing this out just as many, many folks here have (to say nothing of the casual tourists who are astounded how much his ability and awareness has dropped off).
And yes, Jazzbass, seriously, if he had the dedication to his art like MJ has shown, who knows how much more studio work could have transpired, how much more excellent the performances could have been, how much better MT and RW (playing wise and life wise in MT's case) could have been and how much better the MJ relationship could have been. Imagine being forced to be a babysitter for years while you're being responsible and dedicated and your partner is drunk and high all the time. I used to be very down on MJ as the calculating one while Keith was the "real Rolling Stone". I don't see it like that anymore. Keith has said that he still has a 15 y.o. inside that he protects, but I now see that as just an excuse.
Lastly, I think folks are kidding themselves about the stale setlists being down to Mick and Chuck being boring and unimaginative. They pick the tunes that they safely feel Keith can get through. The frustration must be so intense for MJ after playing with someone like Jeff Beck or Stevie Salas or Joe Satriani. I don't prefer any of those guys to Keith by a hundred miles, but they can at least play the tunes without huge, glaring mistakes or even worse, just flat out not playing and the posing and smoking routine. All of this leads me back to where's MT, but......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 07:46 by shawnriffhard1.
he wrote the songs. how could he just be a sideman?
I think most everyone posting on IORR is an "actual" Rolling Stones fan. It isn't a contest to see who is the most fanatical of the current band and shows. Just because someone has a critical or divergent views of the state of the Rolling Stones in 2015 doesn't make them any less of a fan. Roland who started the thread has been posting for over 10 years, probably was a fan while some of us were still in diapers....and likely has witnessed Keith's diminishing role.
Is someone who adores the Brian era Rolling Stones but is critical of the Taylor and Ronnie era's still an actual fan? Of course they are. Is someone who thinks the Stones would be better with Taylor again and have fallen out of musical excellence still an actual fan? Yep. Basically not every actual Stones fan believes the current state or lineup is the best they have been...
Personally, I love them for a lot of reasons , mostly 30-40 year old reasons
...but yeah I'm still going to love watching them play this summer.
peace
It's ok, I often don't get my point either...
peace
Luckily, he was the best. So those remaining 20 percent are golden
yes. and i think he would gladly say so.
"Most of his energy"
23 years to record his 3rd album. I have my job and hobbies beside that. Making music is their job, but Charlie enjoys with his horses, Ronnie his painting and for Mick, so many things and without him, no Stones projects. It seems that Keith has nothing special as a hobby, except pills, alcohol. Let's hope he has stopped powder as his doctor ask him, but it is his body! "Most of his energy"
That is your opinion and my opinion is threads like this are good to gauge who seems to be here because they have nothing better to do than complain about a band they no longer enjoy.
I am still here because I am currently a fan of The Rolling Stones and this coming tour. I still enjoy this band and their music and if/when that is no longer the case I will be gone. I have better things to do than hang around a meassage baord insulting a band, complining about how they are no longer as good as they used to be or lamenting some band member who quit a long long time ago. I will move on to talking about current things I actually enjoy.
And indeed most of us are lucky that we will never have message boards written about us IF/when we turn 70, with people on them constantly nagging, complaining and insulting us... ORspeculating stating as fact about how we will never again do what we do because our hands can no longer work...
BUT THEN KEITH COMES BACK AS GOOD AS EVER... but none of the nagging specualators ever post anything like "Well I guess I was wrong about Keith and his hands, he seems to be playing fine"... nope... they just move on to the next thing, complaining about his jacket color, or his glasses, or his posing or how mean he is because he won't invite back band members who quit 40 years ago, or they will nag and complain about this... or that... or the other... etc etc etc...
sideman schmideman
AND NOW A SONG... from my favorite band
The solo album has been in the can for Lord knows how long now? Energy?...lol. Keith is exactly where he's always wanted to be, on the road playing. Seems like a win win for both Mick and him.
Well, you know... that blue was kind of... you know...
Hey Keith 1979 called, it wants its satin jacket back!! ;)
Posts like this! Hear hear!
Whilst Mick acts like he is...what?
But why is that wrong again? I like it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:03 by DandelionPowderman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:29 by Leonioid.
Try Wild Horses
He plays the twelwe-string?
I bet that he is trying to run and jump a little anyway.
2 1 2 0
No, but he stands still and focuses on his singing
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 7, 2015 07:10
I represent that remark !
;)
;)
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
shawnriffhard1
()
Date: May 7, 2015 07:34
Quote
jazzbassQuote
shawnriffhard1
It boggles the mind thinking of what could have been.
Tell me what could've been? Seriously?
Listen, I've been a fanatic since the spring of 81 as a 12 year old. I built many of my points of view on Keith's words and actions. To say I love the guy doesn't really begin to get it, but his playing and writing ability, and mindset have been tremendously affected by his self abuse as has Ronnie's Are you really disagreeing with me here? MJ has worked hard keeping himself in shape and it shows. Keith has not and it too shows. He has exhibited all the classic self delusions that any alcoholic/addict shows in terms of denial and bullshitting himself, talking about, "It's my iron constitution", and other such nonsense while people tell him how great he is. I know the arthritis is a major issue, but it's the only problem by a long shot.
Before the 50th anniversary tour started, Keith's ability to make a go of it was very much in question. If you recall, MJ talked about Keith's health being an impediment and he said, "There are no miracles in life." I don't think we need a crystal ball to understand what he was saying. I take no pleasure in pointing this out just as many, many folks here have (to say nothing of the casual tourists who are astounded how much his ability and awareness has dropped off).
And yes, Jazzbass, seriously, if he had the dedication to his art like MJ has shown, who knows how much more studio work could have transpired, how much more excellent the performances could have been, how much better MT and RW (playing wise and life wise in MT's case) could have been and how much better the MJ relationship could have been. Imagine being forced to be a babysitter for years while you're being responsible and dedicated and your partner is drunk and high all the time. I used to be very down on MJ as the calculating one while Keith was the "real Rolling Stone". I don't see it like that anymore. Keith has said that he still has a 15 y.o. inside that he protects, but I now see that as just an excuse.
Lastly, I think folks are kidding themselves about the stale setlists being down to Mick and Chuck being boring and unimaginative. They pick the tunes that they safely feel Keith can get through. The frustration must be so intense for MJ after playing with someone like Jeff Beck or Stevie Salas or Joe Satriani. I don't prefer any of those guys to Keith by a hundred miles, but they can at least play the tunes without huge, glaring mistakes or even worse, just flat out not playing and the posing and smoking routine. All of this leads me back to where's MT, but......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 07:46 by shawnriffhard1.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Bsebastian
()
Date: May 7, 2015 07:54
Quote
ROPENI
From his latest interviews,you may assume that his role as one of the leaders of The Stones has diminished a great deal,the songs to be played are decided by Mick and Chuck,so, basically Keith just shows up,plays what he is told and goes home....Your opinion....
he wrote the songs. how could he just be a sideman?
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:06
Quote
Leonioid
I suppose it is a good idea to lay these types of threads out here mainly to see who here is still an actual Rolling Stones fan and who posts here mainly because they have nothing better to do...
I think most everyone posting on IORR is an "actual" Rolling Stones fan. It isn't a contest to see who is the most fanatical of the current band and shows. Just because someone has a critical or divergent views of the state of the Rolling Stones in 2015 doesn't make them any less of a fan. Roland who started the thread has been posting for over 10 years, probably was a fan while some of us were still in diapers....and likely has witnessed Keith's diminishing role.
Is someone who adores the Brian era Rolling Stones but is critical of the Taylor and Ronnie era's still an actual fan? Of course they are. Is someone who thinks the Stones would be better with Taylor again and have fallen out of musical excellence still an actual fan? Yep. Basically not every actual Stones fan believes the current state or lineup is the best they have been...
Personally, I love them for a lot of reasons , mostly 30-40 year old reasons
...but yeah I'm still going to love watching them play this summer.peace
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
ChelseaGirls
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:14
You are very naive, Naturalust. See, we live in the best of all possible worlds, and, in this world where all is for the best, Keef is the best of all possible guitarists. I don't get your point.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:36
Quote
ChelseaGirls
You are very naive, Naturalust. See, we live in the best of all possible worlds, and, in this world where all is for the best, Keef is the best of all possible guitarists. I don't get your point.
It's ok, I often don't get my point either...
peace
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:43
Geeeeeeeez naturalust ya backed outta that one quick ...hhhaaaaaaaa
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
stones2000
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:55
In the 2013 Hyde Park DVD, I didn't think Keith was at all struggling to get through the songs. If you listen to Before They Make me Run from the DVD, Keith nails every chord, and his vocals are great too. Also, I think that Mick is far more business focused than Keith. Mick is, I think, far more worried about getting his outfit spot on, and making sure everything is perfect. Keith's more laid back, he's there to have a nice time and play some incredible music. And Keith's stage persona in contrast with Mick's often makes Keith look less involved than he is. Just my take on it, doesn't mean I'm right or wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 08:58 by stones2000.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 08:58 by stones2000.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:57
Let's just hang around and see what we're all doin' when were in our 70's...
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 08:58
Quote
vertigojoeQuote
palerider22
Keith is usually a bit more resilient than most people think. I doubt he's been diminished that much...
I'm afraid from a guitar playing point of view he's about 80% diminished.
Cue DP...
Luckily, he was the best. So those remaining 20 percent are golden
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: May 7, 2015 09:24
More of a mascot I'd say.
Yep. Sadly.
2 1 2 0
Yep. Sadly.
2 1 2 0
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: May 7, 2015 09:48
No. He's Charlie's guitarist.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Bsebastian
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:01
Quote
ash
No. He's Charlie's guitarist.
yes. and i think he would gladly say so.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
ouroux58
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:14
Quote
chatoyancy
Keith has been putting most of his energy into his solo album. As for the Stones tour song selection, Keith has said many times that he lets Mick choose the songs because Mick is the one who has to sing them. As long as Keith's favorites Midnight Rambler, Jumping Jack Flash, Gimme Shelter are played, Keith is Happy.
"Most of his energy"
23 years to record his 3rd album. I have my job and hobbies beside that. Making music is their job, but Charlie enjoys with his horses, Ronnie his painting and for Mick, so many things and without him, no Stones projects. It seems that Keith has nothing special as a hobby, except pills, alcohol. Let's hope he has stopped powder as his doctor ask him, but it is his body! "Most of his energy" Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:30
Quote
Naturalust
I think most everyone posting on IORR is an "actual" Rolling Stones fan.
That is your opinion and my opinion is threads like this are good to gauge who seems to be here because they have nothing better to do than complain about a band they no longer enjoy.
I am still here because I am currently a fan of The Rolling Stones and this coming tour. I still enjoy this band and their music and if/when that is no longer the case I will be gone. I have better things to do than hang around a meassage baord insulting a band, complining about how they are no longer as good as they used to be or lamenting some band member who quit a long long time ago. I will move on to talking about current things I actually enjoy.
And indeed most of us are lucky that we will never have message boards written about us IF/when we turn 70, with people on them constantly nagging, complaining and insulting us... OR
BUT THEN KEITH COMES BACK AS GOOD AS EVER... but none of the nagging specualators ever post anything like "Well I guess I was wrong about Keith and his hands, he seems to be playing fine"... nope... they just move on to the next thing, complaining about his jacket color, or his glasses, or his posing or how mean he is because he won't invite back band members who quit 40 years ago, or they will nag and complain about this... or that... or the other... etc etc etc...
sideman schmideman
AND NOW A SONG... from my favorite band
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:45
Quote
chatoyancy
Keith has been putting most of his energy into his solo album. As for the Stones tour song selection, Keith has said many times that he lets Mick choose the songs because Mick is the one who has to sing them. As long as Keith's favorites Midnight Rambler, Jumping Jack Flash, Gimme Shelter are played, Keith is Happy.
The solo album has been in the can for Lord knows how long now? Energy?...lol. Keith is exactly where he's always wanted to be, on the road playing. Seems like a win win for both Mick and him.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:45
"Complaining about his jacket colour..."
Guilty as charged (well, some jackets).
Guilty as charged (well, some jackets).
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:50
Quote
Green Lady
"Complaining about his jacket colour..."
Guilty as charged (well, some jackets).
Well, you know... that blue was kind of... you know...
Hey Keith 1979 called, it wants its satin jacket back!! ;)
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:58
Quote
LeonioidQuote
Naturalust
I think most everyone posting on IORR is an "actual" Rolling Stones fan.
That is your opinion and my opinion is threads like this are good to gauge who seems to be here because they have nothing better to do than complain about a band they no longer enjoy.
I am still here because I am currently a fan of The Rolling Stones and this coming tour. I still enjoy this band and their music and if/when that is no longer the case I will be gone. I have better things to do than hang around a meassage baord insulting a band, complining about how they are no longer as good as they used to be or lamenting some band member who quit a long long time ago. I will move on to talking about current things I actually enjoy.
And indeed most of us are lucky that we will never have message boards written about us IF/when we turn 70, with people on them constantly nagging, complaining and insulting us... ORspeculatingstating as fact about how we will never again do what we do because our hands can no longer work...
BUT THEN KEITH COMES BACK AS GOOD AS EVER... but none of the nagging specualators ever post anything like "Well I guess I was wrong about Keith and his hands, he seems to be playing fine"... nope... they just move on to the next thing, complaining about his jacket color, or his glasses, or his posing or how mean he is because he won't invite back band members who quit 40 years ago, or they will nag and complain about this... or that... or the other... etc etc etc...
sideman schmideman
AND NOW A SONG... from my favorite band
Posts like this! Hear hear!
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
drbryant
()
Date: May 7, 2015 10:59
Not sure what "sideman" means in this context. Every show opens with Keith taking stage and playing an intro (except for those odd times they open with GOMC). At their most recent show in Auckland, he played three solo numbers w/o Mick on stage and no one seemed to complain. Musically, he can still get it done, but I've kind of accepted that the pre-accident KR may not return. Well, as Rick said to Ilsa at the end of "Casablanca", we'll always have Saitama. That's no sideman. For those who have not seen the recent Saitama video with improved sound, here it is - amazing quality as if pulled straight from the PPV original .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:04 by drbryant.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:04 by drbryant.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
ChelseaGirls
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:00
Who complains about the fact that they are 70 years old or more? There is no shame in getting old but "Keef" acts like he is still 24 years old. He is the one who doesn't accept the fact that they did age, actually.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:01
Quote
ChelseaGirls
Who complains about the fact that they are 70 years old or more? There is no shame in getting old but "Keef" acts like he is still 24 years old. He is the one who doesn't accept the fact that they did age, actually.
Whilst Mick acts like he is...what?
But why is that wrong again? I like it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:03 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:06
I'm still waiting impatiently for the concert when to see Mick Jagger stand still and concentrate on the song.
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:15
When I saw Keith pierce through the Jeff Beck-flash (as funny as that was) with his solo on I'm Going Down at the O2 Arena, I knew everything was all right – and that the Stones would carry on for a long time.
We should be grateful for all the activity they have put down the last 29 months. This is in reality their 6th tour since that comeback at the O2!
We should be grateful for all the activity they have put down the last 29 months. This is in reality their 6th tour since that comeback at the O2!
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Leonioid
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:26
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Posts like this! Hear hear!
I am one who hasnt seen it.... THANK YOU DOCTORQuote
drbryant
For those who have not seen the recent Saitama video with improved sound, here it is - amazing quality as if pulled straight from the PPV original .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-05-07 11:29 by Leonioid.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:41
Quote
DandelionPowderman
When I saw Keith pierce through the Jeff Beck-flash (as funny as that was) with his solo on I'm Going Down at the O2 Arena, I knew everything was all right – and that the Stones would carry on for a long time.
We should be grateful for all the activity they have put down the last 29 months. This is in reality their 6th tour since that comeback at the O2!
That's the Keith I want to see in July. Cool, calm, collected!!
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Testify
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:45
I do not agree, Keith still has a crucial role in the band. Nothing goes out without his consent, Jagger is in charge of the organization has always done, but the rest is decided along with Keith and often together even to Charlie and Ronnie. The set list has always been decided by Mick and Keith has always said it was the singer who has to choose what it feels like to play at the moment.
Especially when working on a new album Keith is still essential part, not coincidentally the two often clashed on the choices.
Especially when working on a new album Keith is still essential part, not coincidentally the two often clashed on the choices.
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:46
Quote
Come On
I'm still waiting impatiently for the concert when to see Mick Jagger stand still and concentrate on the song.
Try Wild Horses
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: May 7, 2015 11:58
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come On
I'm still waiting impatiently for the concert when to see Mick Jagger stand still and concentrate on the song.
Try Wild Horses
He plays the twelwe-string?
I bet that he is trying to run and jump a little anyway.2 1 2 0
Re: Has Keith become a mere sideman for the band?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 7, 2015 12:20
Quote
Come OnQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Come On
I'm still waiting impatiently for the concert when to see Mick Jagger stand still and concentrate on the song.
Try Wild Horses
He plays the twelwe-string?
No, but he stands still and focuses on his singing
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