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Aquamarine
I get that when something like this happens, people want it to have more meaning than just a dumb accident. But none of the murder theories that I've read make sense, if only because none of the motives are enough to risk murder--if your opponent owns the Stones name, you just get a better lawyer than your opponent, for instance.

(I think Sam Cutler got hold of some of the bad acid, to be honest. Shirley Arnold certainly didn't seem to think that Keylock had anything to do with it. But I wasn't there, any more than the rest of us, so . . )

There is some mighty odd behaviour surrounding this, stuff that's noted by policemen at the scene and available to read in files from the national archives, but odd behaviour isn't proof someone was murdered.

The actual alledged murder relies on dubious witnesses in bushes and he said she said stuff.

It's become a perfect thing to make a little money from, just about anything can be claimed now because the police are simply never going to re open the case.

Well, exactly. Which is why it makes me so uncomfortable that people are going around accusing other (deceased) people of murder, for very murky motives. Or even undeceased people like Jagger and Richards, which is where we reach lunatic-fringe territory. There certainly was some strange behavior and a whole ball of confusion, but I think that sort of thing surrounds most unexpected deaths. People behave in weird ways when they think they might be a suspect, etc.

Indeed. ^

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His Majesty
The actual alledged murder relies on dubious witnesses in bushes and he said she said stuff.

That's another thing that the Sam Cutler version mentions also--the two "witnesses" who show up while events are in progress but are then warned off, or they would have been next.

That reminded me of the mythical "Nicholas Fitzgerald" account who was supposed to have authored a book that seems to be long out of print and who was also someone that no one can seem to verify the existence of.

Could this Nicholas Fitzgerald then be a pseudonym for someone who actually stumbled onto the scene that night, one of the "dubious witnesses in bushes?"

The Cutler version mentions that these two "witnesses" were coming from a party--in line with the NF account--and arrived at Cotchford Farm late and wound up watching the drowning from bushes on the estate when someone (Keylock in "Fitzgerald's" account, not Keylock in Cutler's account) discovered them there and warned them off.

I wish I could see the alleged "Klein report", if that too actually exists.

Sad to say, it seems we're no closer to "the final truth" than when the book's first edition was published.

That's the guy.

Yes, interesting. I recall the merits of the "Fitzgerald" story being debated back and forth on the LARS board several years back.

"Fitzgerald's" account describes seeing from the bushes several people by the pool while the murder was taking place, one of them a woman who was watching--could this have been Joan Fitzsimmons?

The authors of The Final Truth tell of a "casualty" leaving in an ambulance that night who was not Brian. When speculating on this earlier in this thread, another poster said that it could have been someone who fainted and needed treatment--maybe Joan Fitzsimmons, who became traumatized by what she was forced to witness? Was this how she found out, by first-hand account? They sought to blind--or kill--her for a reason, so she must have been one of those at the pool, an actual witness, the woman "Fitzgerald" describes in his account.

Other books get talked about quite openly here upon release so I don't see why this one should be any different.

As I recall the main claims in the new parts are that Frank killed Brian around 9:30pm (not near midnight), Tom was in the house being informed by his mistress that she was pregnant with his baby when this happened.

They claim Frank was taken away in ambulance with an injured wrist and that Brian's body lay beside the pool until about 6 in the morning.

There's much stuff about Fitzsimons, they claim Frank didn't attempt to murder her, it was her boyfriend, but that Frank wound the guy up by claiming he had been with her. This was done to silence her though as she was going to go to the papers etc with what she knew.

None of the above is proven to us via documents at the end of the book, we have to trust the authors claims of this coming from documents etc not shown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 04:06 by His Majesty.

Thanks, HM!

I'll just look forward to reading the hard copy print version when it's finally published.

Frank with an injured wrist--was he punching Brian during the struggle?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 04:10 by stonehearted.

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stonehearted

Frank with an injured wrist--was he punching Brian during the struggle?

I don't think it say's how he injured it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 04:27 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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stonehearted
Thanks, HM!

I'll just look forward to reading the hard copy print version when it's finally published.

Frank with an injured wrist--was he punching Brian during the struggle?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 23:57 by stonehearted.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 04:28 by His Majesty.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 23:57 by stonehearted.

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His Majesty
It's very easy to die, especially in a hot pool of water, even slightly wasted. The heat in tandem with booze and drugs could easily make you fall asleep or pass out.

I still have some doubts about certain things and I don't trust Rawlings that much, perhaps some of the harder to prove stories have been exaggerated etc. a all new book would have allowed for more detailed story.

The end result is the same regardless.

We used to get hammered at work at open-bar nite holiday weekend parties and I swore by jumping into the hotel pool at nite afterwards to swim laps to straighten up for work the next day. I was totally unfamiliar with these pools, which were dark & deep, unlike Brian, who knew his own pool. I also wasn't the diver & skilled swimmer he was. I can attest there's nothing like laps to clear the head & I never went to work hung over.

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paulspendel
You are welcome! You guys are very decent on this forum, i must say. I tip my hat to that. No yelling and cursing.

It's all for the golden boy we all miss so dearly...

well, not always...have seen some incidents.

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owlbynite

We used to get hammered at work at open-bar nite holiday weekend parties and I swore by jumping into the hotel pool at nite afterwards to swim laps to straighten up for work the next day. I was totally unfamiliar with these pools, which were dark & deep, unlike Brian, who knew his own pool. I also wasn't the diver & skilled swimmer he was. I can attest there's nothing like laps to clear the head & I never went to work hung over.

Were these pools whammed up to 90 degrees? Were your liver and heart @#$%& up? Were you on a load of prescription drugs?

Anyway, some people die falling asleep in the bath.

Hi His Majesty (or should I say Philip), Keylock was at the apartment with Janet when the fatal incident happened. He was not in the pool, Cutler had it wrong. He was right about Klein starting an investigation, but his story about the outcome was flawded.

Paul

Any regular here knows me as Philip, no need for a post on my facebook stating your dissapointment at me using my real name there and not here.

You can't blame people for questioning some stuff when other stuff by the very same people clashes with other peoples stuff.

Some of the important stuff relies on he said she said type stuff. Fine for you if you have documents etc, but not for those who haven't seen them.

So aye, stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-08-26 19:08 by His Majesty.

His Majesty, I'm with you. I found myself full of tequila and god knows what else at dawn in a warm Jacuzzi some years back. It was scary as I began to feel I wasn't going to be able to get out of the damn thing. Brian was not known as a careful drug taker, or drinker. I can see him being left alone, croaking in the pool, and then he was found. Or, another scenario, he was really weakened by the warm water/drugs/booze trio, and he succumbed to alleged horseplay rather easily.

So I ask again - ( Paul or anybody): what about Anna Wohlins story/book.
She was there and she told it different in parts. No Keylock during the incident.What about that/her?

Any regular may know you as such, but I am no regular. It's not on to approach someone with your real name using Facebook, like you did, and ask the same person questions using an alias and not telling this person you are the same person on Facebook. At least, it's not on in my book...bye bye to you all.

I'm sure I will get around to reading this 'new' book at some point. but the whole who killed Brian Jones is begining to resemble the JFK incident. I could write a new book on it and include bits and bats from living witnesses and assorted archive documents and yet I still wouldn;t be able to conclusively prove who the murderer is/was. I doubt we ever will now as many of the relevant people are dead. Rock N Roll who dunnits are open to immense speculation and extravagant claims from all involved.

Hi Paul,
I think we know eachother from school, way back in the seventies. Het B. L. if you know what I mean. Good to see your still alive and kicking. I will buy your book for sure.

Rosto will give you a hint of my real name...

Let it rock!

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paulspendel
Any regular may know you as such, but I am no regular. It's not on to approach someone with your real name using Facebook, like you did, and ask the same person questions using an alias and not telling this person you are the same person on Facebook. At least, it's not on in my book...bye bye to you all.

When i added you i think did say i posted here as HM. It's not like there's been much contact on there anyway. A few posts on the books page and that's it.

With regards to hidden identity, I recall you intentionally deceiving some people a few years back.

The real truth is that very few people care, or even know about, a Brian Jones death conspiracy. Brian is a cult figure, a very durable cult figure. It's not like Mark David Chapman shot Lennon and then ran off into the night and his identity was never known. I think if there was even conclusive proof of who did it, which I doubt, the world would give a collective shrug and move on.

....think he's gone off in a huff. Hope he didn;t just register on iorr with the sole intention of pushing book sales. I'm all for 'regulars' like Hbwriter, who actually is an iorrer promoting their work, but when people just register, to market their books, recordings etc it's all a bit mercenary. Maybe he will come back and join in the fun on a traditional thread like does Mick dye his hair!

Of course that's why he registered, same with all the other online places he joined recently.

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His Majesty
Of course that's why he registered, same with all the other online places he joined recently.

Irony is wasted on you HM

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crumbling_mice

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His Majesty
Of course that's why he registered, same with all the other online places he joined recently.

Irony is wasted on you HM

Nah, just a quick read and reply on a phone.

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His Majesty
Any regular here knows me as Philip

What ? You are not really His Majesty ? Such a disgrace. Shame on you.

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Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie

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His Majesty
Any regular here knows me as Philip

What ? You are not really His Majesty ? Such a disgrace. Shame on you.

I am from the lyrics of two songs.