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Woz
Mick is just pissed because the Prince rightly points out that the Stones were really all about Keef....

Oh my, you're in trouble now Cheers and good luck

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Keep On Rolling

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24FPS
What is it with people not giving Jagger his due? Who found Rupert in the first place? Who kept the band together while Keith was shooting half of Afghanistan into his arm? Just because Keith seems more approachable, and we know he can be as phony as anyone, Mick gets cut down. Mick has the right to keep employees like Lowenstein at arms length.

+ 1

However, when deciding to keep people at arms length, you goota be a certain kind of person. Maybe that is what Prince Rupert has a beef with, I dunno...

According To The Rolling Stones ....... pages 206 --- 209



ROCKMAN

Isn't it funny how someone supposedly so much better educated and so much classier than meer rock stars should end up behaving with less class and suffistication than the stars themselves? Seems like the one thing this guy could say publicly that would really piss Mick off is that Keith is brighter than Mick! Talk about media minipulation.

Exactly. You think he'd be writing about his ancestors or something. To use the Stones in this manner shows what a complete shit he is. I'm sure one of the reasons he was chosen by the Stones is because they thought he wouldn't trade on their name. Rupie the Groupie indeed.

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Title5Take1

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latebloomer

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Title5Take1
Let's face it, aside from whatever merits they might or might not have it's more "fashionable" to praise Keith over Mick, maybe just `cause even non-Stones fans know who Mick is, but not everybody (in my experience) knows who Keith is, so you sound more "inside" if you praise Keith. As Michael Lewis said, "Snobbery has a logic all its own."

Maybe so, but I don't see your logic at all, Title5Take1. Rupert's quotes in the article are excerpts, the full book may tell a different story. He may be very critical of Keith in other parts of the book, we just don't know yet. I think the newspaper picked the most sensational quotes to rachet up the readership and get a response from Mick. In any case, I really doubt that Prince Rupert would be interested in praising Keith because it makes him sound like an insider, he was an insider.

The full book may tell a different story? The fact that it was written at all shows Rupert's moral code is out of whack. Whatever Rupert's intent, that inverted snobbery does exist among some Stones fans. Like William Goldman (screenwriter of some of the top films in the 70's) says some film snobs love to say that Orson Welles's best film was The Magnificent Ambersons when it was obviously Citizen Caine, or that Hithcock's best film was Vertigo, when he made obvoiusly better ones. It just sounds cooler to name the unobvious.

To be clear, I'm not trying to defend Rupert, I agree that to write a book about a former client's financial and business arrangements is highly unethical. I was just addressing your point that PR was praising Keith because it's the cooler thing to do, makes him look like an insider. I don't think that he would feel the need to do that since he was on the inside anyway. I also think it's hard to know how much praise or condemnation Keith or Mick comes in for in his book by just reading the excerpts. In any case, his comment that Keith had the most intelligent mind in the band is only his opinion. I've known plenty of people who are very bright on paper, but complete wasteoids because they can never get their act together. I've often said to my students and children, being intelligent doesn't mean squat if you don't have some self-discipline.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-02-12 16:04 by latebloomer.

But face it, if he had said Mick was the brains, would anyone get excited?

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gimmelittledrink
But face it, if he had said Mick was the brains, would anyone get excited?

No they wouldn't. I just hope this doesn't become the inevitable Keith vs. Mick thread.

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superrevvy
I'm sure many of the social anecdotes are true and amusing

The insider stuff is fiction, and approved by Mick. The description of Mick as
"furious" is just to help sales.

If you believe either that Keith has a finer mind than Mick, or that Rupert
believes that Keith has a finer mind than Mick, then you truly will believe
anything.

Well stated

Ha ha, we're talking like we know the guys here. We don't...

A legitimate question here would be "more intelligent at what exactly"?

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DandelionPowderman
Ha ha, we're talking like we know the guys here. We don't...

What ??? You don't know The Rolling Stones ???
And yet you dare to show up here. Shame on you.

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Rolling Hansie

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DandelionPowderman
Ha ha, we're talking like we know the guys here. We don't...

What ??? You don't know The Rolling Stones ???
And yet you dare to show up here. Shame on you.

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24FPS
What is it with people not giving Jagger his due? Who found Rupert in the first place? Who kept the band together while Keith was shooting half of Afghanistan into his arm?

Hasn't Keith stated (maybe in his book) that he didn't consume via injection?

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DandelionPowderman

Great post ... ... Cheers to you too

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Keep On Rolling

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Roscoe

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24FPS
What is it with people not giving Jagger his due? Who found Rupert in the first place? Who kept the band together while Keith was shooting half of Afghanistan into his arm?

Hasn't Keith stated (maybe in his book) that he didn't consume via injection?

Injecting in muscles, not in the veins.

As an American, in social situations in both America and Europe I've witnessed Europeans act appalled at how openly Americans talk about money. A Dutch woman told me that it's even considered bad form in Europe to ask, "So, what do you do?" Which is a standard American social opener. Oh, irony....

To digress, there's the notorious mid-life crisis. But I've noticed men can be very rich and accomplished, but then they hit their 80's and have a sort of old age crisis. They want to do something that will be noticed publicly and maybe endure. So you have billionaires like George Soros and Warren Buffet, who weren't terribly political earlier, suddenly in their 80's funding (hypocritically, I think) and talking things left leaning. They're gonna die soon, and so they try to up their chances of making history before it's too late. Being "just" successful isn't enough. Maybe this is the closest Rupert could get to fulfilling that want.

I wanna read this book....it has some insights into the band even if they are filtered through Rupert's social caste or whatever

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latebloomer
I've often said to my students and children, being intelligent doesn't mean squat if you don't have some self-discipline.

I agree. Not that I heed it as much as I should, but a good phrase I read is, "There's the pain of discipline, and the pain of regret." Of all people, even John Lennon said in his last Dakota year that he found discipline was required for most things, "Even with drugs." Yeah, with them, too!

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Title5Take1

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latebloomer
I've often said to my students and children, being intelligent doesn't mean squat if you don't have some self-discipline.

I agree. Not that I heed it as much as I should, but a good phrase I read is, "There's the pain of discipline, and the pain of regret." Of all people, even John Lennon said in his last Dakota year that he found discipline was required for most things, "Even with drugs." Yeah, with them, too!

You and me both Title5Take1, it's sometimes a case of do as I say, not as I do...like, for instance, wasting time on a fan site, when I should be getting some stuff done!

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Title5Take1
As an American, in social situations in both America and Europe I've witnessed Europeans act appalled at how openly Americans talk about money. A Dutch woman told me that it's even considered bad form in Europe to ask, "So, what do you do?" Which is a standard American social opener. Oh, irony....

To digress, there's the notorious mid-life crisis. But I've noticed men can be very rich and accomplished, but then they hit their 80's and have a sort of old age crisis. They want to do something that will be noticed publicly and maybe endure. So you have billionaires like George Soros and Warren Buffet, who weren't terribly political earlier, suddenly in their 80's funding (hypocritically, I think) and talking things left leaning. They're gonna die soon, and so they try to up their chances of making history before it's too late. Being "just" successful isn't enough. Maybe this is the closest Rupert could get to fulfilling that want.

Good points. When you read the excerpt from PR posted earlier, there is no doubt that he had a clear grasp of his fiduciary responsibility to his employers, the RS. It seems almost preposterous that he has written an insider book after 40 years in their employ. The people you might want or expect to publish a book about their time in the inner circle - Tom Keylock, Anita, Marshall Chess, Bianca - haven't.

One thing I am wondering about - if the RS were broke when they met PR, and had no access to their funds, how could they have afforded his fees? A business manager and financial advisor usually charges an hourly rate, and PR's rates would have been steep.

I would have loved to be a fly in the wall in a meeting between Rupert, Mick and Keith.....

I´ll go for the book. Sure a good and different look inside the Stones

Rupert says that Keith is smarter than Mick. Ok, we can assume he knows after working for and with them for 40 years but the proof that Rupert brings up to justify his choice is kind of ridiculous; Keith owned and brought with him to Nellcote a classical record (Mozart I believe). That an insulte to Mick and to the readers too. @#$%& you fat @#$%&!
Rock and roll,
Mops

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Rockman
....I was Don Was

Made my day with that one!



~"Love is Strong"~

bottom line-mick fired him

like many people who work for the stones, he outlived his usefulness and was discarded.some last a short time some last a long time but eventually they all go.then they get mad at mick and write a book.

he didnt run the stones finances anyway,he was an advisor.for him to act as if he controlled the stones money for all those years is ridiculous,it would be like a financial planner acting as if he ran your household.

he made suggestions and through band meetings,consulting with attorneys and others the stones either gave his ideas a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

thats where the pathetic shot at mick comes in-"it was all me,me me " ok old fella,run along now.

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lem motlow
bottom line-mick fired him

like many people who work for the stones, he outlived his usefulness and was discarded.some last a short time some last a long time but eventually they all go.then they get mad at mick and write a book.

he didnt run the stones finances anyway,he was an advisor.for him to act as if he controlled the stones money for all those years is ridiculous,it would be like a financial planner acting as if he ran your household.

he made suggestions and through band meetings,consulting with attorneys and others the stones either gave his ideas a thumbs up or a thumbs down.

thats where the pathetic shot at mick comes in-"it was all me,me me " ok old fella,run along now.

but because of Rupert we have Exile!...

seriously, your post is right on the money. accidental pun there.

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Bliss
One thing I am wondering about - if the RS were broke when they met PR, and had no access to their funds, how could they have afforded his fees? A business manager and financial advisor usually charges an hourly rate, and PR's rates would have been steep.

The same way they afforded their houses, automobiles, instruments, planes and drugs. They made money. Just not "a lot".

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Bliss
It seems everyone's getting into the act, weighing in with their point of view:

'I Was Keith Richards' Drug Dealer' - Tony Sanchez

'I Was Mick Jagger's Girlfriend' - Marianne Faithfull

'I Was the Rolling Stones' Office Manager' - Jo Bergman

'I Was the RS Fanzine Publisher' - Bill German

'I Was the RS' Flatmate' - our own James Phelge

'I Was Mick Jagger's PA' - Chris O'Dell

and now, bizarrely, 'I Was the RS' Bank Manager' - Prince Rupert Loewenstein

Did I leave anyone out? These primary sources are fantastic from a reader's perspective, but not so enjoyable from the subject's. Oh well. Can't please everyone.

(Note to self - get accountant, husband and cleaning lady to sign confidentiality clauses.)

You forgot Jerry Hall and Marsha Hunt ( they may not have 'trashed' him, but they sold their stories with him as main character), Bebe Buell, Janice Dickinson....
I'm sure there are more I'm missing.

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DandelionPowderman

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24FPS
What is it with people not giving Jagger his due? Who found Rupert in the first place? Who kept the band together while Keith was shooting half of Afghanistan into his arm? Just because Keith seems more approachable, and we know he can be as phony as anyone, Mick gets cut down. Mick has the right to keep employees like Lowenstein at arms length.

+ 1

However, when deciding to keep people at arms length, you goota be a certain kind of person. Maybe that is what Prince Rupert has a beef with, I dunno...

Certain people are more guarded and that is their nature. Add to that being rich, famous and a target for people who befriend you, work for you....and then write books about years later....
No wonder Mick doesn't trust people. Keith is more naive and gullible. Mick is too shrewd to be so open and trusing. It's self-preservation.
Besides, I don't think it has so much to do with 'secrets' revealed...I doubt the Prince trashed Mick - but I think it would suck if people who you may have been close to, or worked with at one point in your life ....to sell their story for money. Because the story woudn't be about them, nobody cares about them..... it would be all about you.

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Bliss
[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Sounds like a fascinating book, even judging from this extract/description. If the kindle book price is low enough, I might get it.