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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969. Keylock and Thorogood were obviously in cahoots and were understandably a bit cagey, but Rawlings' book does have striking photos of Keylock standing before the front door of Cotchford reliving his meeting with the press from July 3, 1969, and there is as well an over-the-shoulder photo of a gray, balding, long-haired Thorogood sitting outdoors on Cotchford Farm in 1993 poring over archive newspaper clippings detailing the death of Brian Jones.

As for the terms of the payout due Brian from The Stones' office, the book does go into quite a bit of detail not only of the exact amount, but also Brian's troubled state of mind over when the payment agreement was due to commence. With his considerable debt situation, Brian was quite anxious that the payment agreement should begin as soon as possible.

The amount was 100,000 pounds as a severance agreement for leaving The Stones, then 20,000 pounds to be paid annually for as long as The Rolling Stones remained active as a touring/recording unit. This money would be coming of course from ABKCO.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-27 01:38 by stonesnow.

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stonesnow

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969. Keylock and Thorogood were obviously in cahoots and were understandably a bit cagey, but Rawlings' book does have striking photos of Keylock standing before the front door of Cotchford reliving his meeting with the press from July 3, 1969, and there is as well an over-the-shoulder photo of a gray, balding, long-haired Thorogood sitting outdoors on Cotchford Farm in 1993 poring over archive newspaper clippings detailing the death of Brian Jones.

As for the terms of the payout due Brian from The Stones' office, the book does go into quite a bit of detail not only of the exact amount, but also Brian's troubled state of mind over when the payment agreement was due to commence. With his considerable debt situation, Brian was quite anxious that the payment agreement should begin as soon as possible.

The amount was 100,000 pounds as a severance agreement for leaving The Stones, then 20,000 pounds to be paid annually for as long as The Rolling Stones remained active as a touring/recording unit. This money would be coming of course from ABKCO.

OK thanks, I also heard these amounts (I believe in Tony Sanchez's book). So where do you think this money would come from? I would guess that it would come from the net proceeds to be paid to the Stones AFTER Klein took any money owed him. In other words, Klein makes no more or no less, but it's the Stones themselves that would earn less in the coming years. So, if that is true, why would Klein want him dead (you stated : Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year)?



Found these pictures taken the next day after he died:

[www.gettyimages.ie]

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969. Keylock and Thorogood were obviously in cahoots and were understandably a bit cagey, but Rawlings' book does have striking photos of Keylock standing before the front door of Cotchford reliving his meeting with the press from July 3, 1969, and there is as well an over-the-shoulder photo of a gray, balding, long-haired Thorogood sitting outdoors on Cotchford Farm in 1993 poring over archive newspaper clippings detailing the death of Brian Jones.

As for the terms of the payout due Brian from The Stones' office, the book does go into quite a bit of detail not only of the exact amount, but also Brian's troubled state of mind over when the payment agreement was due to commence. With his considerable debt situation, Brian was quite anxious that the payment agreement should begin as soon as possible.

The amount was 100,000 pounds as a severance agreement for leaving The Stones, then 20,000 pounds to be paid annually for as long as The Rolling Stones remained active as a touring/recording unit. This money would be coming of course from ABKCO.

OK thanks, I also heard these amounts (I believe in Tony Sanchez's book). So where do you think this money would come from? I would guess that it would come from the net proceeds to be paid to the Stones AFTER Klein took any money owed him. In other words, Klein makes no more or no less, but it's the Stones themselves that would earn less in the coming years. So, if that is true, why would Klein want him dead (you stated : Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year)?



Found these pictures taken the next day after he died:

[www.gettyimages.ie]

The original poster, Mock Jogger, would have the full details on the source of actual payment, so perhaps in the days ahead Mock will answer this for you. My guess is that since finances at this time were handled by ABKCO and the Stones were managed by Allen Klein that this would be the source of payment. The "net proceeds" that you mention as coming from album sales and performance royalties and such would tend to fluctuate from year to year, whereas I believe the lump sum payout and annual rate of payment to follow was a fixed amount that was set apart of the income generated from album sales and performance royalties, the latter of which Klein as manager would take a percentage of. Thus I believe the payout to Brian would come from Klein and ABCKO, rather than from The Stones themselves.

Jumping the gun here, but, is this what John Lennon meant when he said,

"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body."?

If he actually said it, that is ... and if he did mean it that way,
why then sign with a bastard as Klein?

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TheDailyBuzzherd
Jumping the gun here, but, is this what John Lennon meant when he said,

"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body."?

If he actually said it, that is ... and if he did mean it that way,
why then sign with a bastard as Klein?

Lennon likely signed with Klein to spite Paul, who offered as the alternative his in-laws, the Eastmans [the father and brother of Linda], to manage The Beatles. Paul didn't like the fact that Klein wanted a higher percentage of the cut for his management fee than Paul was willing to allow. Klein wanted 20%, but Paul thought he should be content with 15%, since The Beatles were such a big group and that he would be sure to earn enough anyway. Ringo and George also signed on with Klein one month after John did.

Just speculating here, but I think John may have viewed Paul's attempt to bring in
his in-laws as just another power play on Paul's part, which, if successful, would have brought the management of The Beatles virtually into his own hands. Klein was recommended to John by Mick Jagger, and Klein and Lennon met during the filming of The Rolling Stones' Rock n Roll Circus.

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

Yes, that is interesting

*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-25 13:14 by Bassid6.

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stonesnow

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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24FPS
Jeez. Brian had already been paid off in settlement, right? So why kill him? What's the motive? Kill him before he gets the bread.

Exactly. That way Allen Klein saves a bundle of money--nearly the equivalent of a million dollars by today's equivalent, per year.

Brian hadn't actually been paid off--yet. The payment agreement was due to commence on Monday July 3--but he conveniently died just before midnight, on July 2, rendering the payment agreement null and void.

Interesting! What is the source, never heard this before...

A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969. Keylock and Thorogood were obviously in cahoots and were understandably a bit cagey, but Rawlings' book does have striking photos of Keylock standing before the front door of Cotchford reliving his meeting with the press from July 3, 1969, and there is as well an over-the-shoulder photo of a gray, balding, long-haired Thorogood sitting outdoors on Cotchford Farm in 1993 poring over archive newspaper clippings detailing the death of Brian Jones.

As for the terms of the payout due Brian from The Stones' office, the book does go into quite a bit of detail not only of the exact amount, but also Brian's troubled state of mind over when the payment agreement was due to commence. With his considerable debt situation, Brian was quite anxious that the payment agreement should begin as soon as possible.

The amount was 100,000 pounds as a severance agreement for leaving The Stones, then 20,000 pounds to be paid annually for as long as The Rolling Stones remained active as a touring/recording unit. This money would be coming of course from ABKCO.

The striking photos are the only good thing about that shite book.

Do tell more.

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Bassid6
A. The Kleins are twats
B. Terry Rawlings is a twat
C. Where does it say, in writing, that Brian gets his money on the 3rd of July 1969? Can you give me a copy?

Perhaps Mock will handle that question for you. I'm only relaying what it said in Terry Rawlings' book.

Why would Brian's money be paid by ABKCO? Allen Klein would have been an idiot if he had made such an agreement, and he clearly was not.

Payment agreements are made between management and bands, not individual members. In the end, for any manager it does not make a difference if you pay to a band of 5 or only 4 members. It's up to the band to divide the incoming money, and it's up to the band to pay out parting members.

And why would Klein, an already rich man at this point, risk criminal investigations for murder?

This "payment agreement starting July 3 and Brian died just in time on July 2" is total bullshit, makes an interesting reading,though - but just to sell the book by fuelling murder and other conspiracy theories.

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alimente
Why would Brian's money be paid by ABKCO? Allen Klein would have been an idiot if he had made such an agreement, and he clearly was not.

Payment agreements are made between management and bands, not individual members. In the end, for any manager it does not make a difference if you pay to a band of 5 or only 4 members. It's up to the band to divide the incoming money, and it's up to the band to pay out parting members.

And why would Klein, an already rich man at this point, risk criminal investigations for murder?

This "payment agreement starting July 3 and Brian died just in time on July 2" is total bullshit, makes an interesting reading,though - but just to sell the book by fuelling murder and other conspiracy theories.

Remember the contract The Stones signed, where they unwittingly signed the rights to all their recordings over to Klein and ABKCO? That's the reason why today Mick and Co. control the rights to their back catalog only from 1971 onward. ABKCO owns the rights to everything released before then. Which is why we'll never see a deluxe treatment of Let It Bleed, Beggar's Banquet, and so on. That's why The Stones' 2009 remastering series only goes as far back as Sticky Fingers.

Regarding Klein being involved in criminal investigations for murder, why were Thorogood and Co. not investigated for robbery, which they committed on a grand scale when they absconded with a great many of Brian's possession's on July 3?

About the starting date of the payment agreement being untrue, then you must know when the payment agreement was due to commence. Brian was fired from the band on July 8. So if it was not due to begin on the first Monday in July, then when?

Phil Spector to John Lennon: "Johnny ... I've got the tapes."

The John Dean tapes?

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stonesnow

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alimente
Why would Brian's money be paid by ABKCO? Allen Klein would have been an idiot if he had made such an agreement, and he clearly was not.

Payment agreements are made between management and bands, not individual members. In the end, for any manager it does not make a difference if you pay to a band of 5 or only 4 members. It's up to the band to divide the incoming money, and it's up to the band to pay out parting members.

And why would Klein, an already rich man at this point, risk criminal investigations for murder?

This "payment agreement starting July 3 and Brian died just in time on July 2" is total bullshit, makes an interesting reading,though - but just to sell the book by fuelling murder and other conspiracy theories.

Remember the contract The Stones signed, where they unwittingly signed the rights to all their recordings over to Klein and ABKCO? That's the reason why today Mick and Co. control the rights to their back catalog only from 1971 onward. ABKCO owns the rights to everything released before then. Which is why we'll never see a deluxe treatment of Let It Bleed, Beggar's Banquet, and so on. That's why The Stones' 2009 remastering series only goes as far back as Sticky Fingers.

Regarding Klein being involved in criminal investigations for murder, why were Thorogood and Co. not investigated for robbery, which they committed on a grand scale when they absconded with a great many of Brian's possession's on July 3?

About the starting date of the payment agreement being untrue, then you must know when the payment agreement was due to commence. Brian was fired from the band on July 8. So if it was not due to begin on the first Monday in July, then when?

Someone on the LARS site a few years ago came up with a timeline leading up to Brian's death. It would be interesting to see it extended by 24 hours (if possible), which would cover all of July 3 and this robbery. Any idea how much information is available for this date and if the LARS timeline for July 2 is still available?

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2000 LYFH

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stonesnow

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alimente
Why would Brian's money be paid by ABKCO? Allen Klein would have been an idiot if he had made such an agreement, and he clearly was not.

Payment agreements are made between management and bands, not individual members. In the end, for any manager it does not make a difference if you pay to a band of 5 or only 4 members. It's up to the band to divide the incoming money, and it's up to the band to pay out parting members.

And why would Klein, an already rich man at this point, risk criminal investigations for murder?

This "payment agreement starting July 3 and Brian died just in time on July 2" is total bullshit, makes an interesting reading,though - but just to sell the book by fuelling murder and other conspiracy theories.

Remember the contract The Stones signed, where they unwittingly signed the rights to all their recordings over to Klein and ABKCO? That's the reason why today Mick and Co. control the rights to their back catalog only from 1971 onward. ABKCO owns the rights to everything released before then. Which is why we'll never see a deluxe treatment of Let It Bleed, Beggar's Banquet, and so on. That's why The Stones' 2009 remastering series only goes as far back as Sticky Fingers.

Regarding Klein being involved in criminal investigations for murder, why were Thorogood and Co. not investigated for robbery, which they committed on a grand scale when they absconded with a great many of Brian's possession's on July 3?

About the starting date of the payment agreement being untrue, then you must know when the payment agreement was due to commence. Brian was fired from the band on July 8. So if it was not due to begin on the first Monday in July, then when?

Someone on the LARS site a few years ago came up with a timeline leading up to Brian's death. It would be interesting to see it extended by 24 hours (if possible), which would cover all of July 3 and this robbery. Any idea how much information is available for this date and if the LARS timeline for July 2 is still available?

Yes, I remember that, I was a regular poster there on LARS at the time. Sadly, some hacker crashed the site, and all that material went into a void, including the timeline. Perhaps the original poster Mock Jogger might have it saved somewhere. He's bound to post here again eventually, and I'm sure he'll have a more definite answer for you on the fate of the timeline.

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stonesnow
A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969.

So the Thorogood death bed confession is not viewed seriously here, or was made up? I must say I lost a lot of faith in what I read on the Stones after finding out a long time ago that Tony Sanchez's rivetting book wasn't stuff that really happened...supposedly.

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gotdablouse
So the Thorogood death bed confession is not viewed seriously here, or was made up?

It was Keylock who claimed that Thorogood had told him that before he died. Thorogood's daughter claim that she was in the room the whole time during Keylock's visit and strongly deny that her father said that. With Thorogood gone there was no way to know if there was any truth in that claim.
Keylock wasn't exactly known to have been trustworthy and he was a fishy character. No wonder they kicked his arse afterwards.

Thanks I didn't know that the source for that confession was Keylock, what the heck was he doing there when Thorogood passed away, maybe they shared a secret? The Stones' current minders certainly seem more dependable...

Wouldn't those dogs have barked if something was going on at the pool?

[www.gettyimages.ie]

The image is taken in the morning after the 'accident'

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Vocalion
Wouldn't those dogs have barked if something was going on at the pool?

[www.gettyimages.ie]

The image is taken in the morning after the 'accident'

They were inside sound a sleep.

Here are more pictures:
[www.gettyimages.ie]

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gotdablouse

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stonesnow
A very interesting read, and unique among other such bios in that Rawlings himself actually managed to get Keylock and Thorogood together to return to Cotchford Farm in 1993, to see if he could get two of the principal players to reenact events of that night in July 1969.

So the Thorogood death bed confession is not viewed seriously here, or was made up? I must say I lost a lot of faith in what I read on the Stones after finding out a long time ago that Tony Sanchez's rivetting book wasn't stuff that really happened...supposedly.

Plenty of sources mention that Keylock later retracted the confession story, and there is a quote somewhere that Keylock circulated the story "as a joke." He was well aware of--and even complicit in--what Thorogood was up to as well as being aware of the theft of Brian's possessions on the day after. The thought of Thorogood confessing on his deathbed to clear his conscience is amusing, as he had no conscience to clear to begin with.

Do you have Terry Rawlings' book? I bought the first edition some years ago in the Charing Cross Road, and it contains a copy of a sworn affidavit by Keylock concerning Thorogood's confession, so why would he say it was a joke afterwards? I think the whole story of what went down that night is really spooky. And, to be perfectly honest, even though Charlie said "he was not worth murdering", I would beg to differ: he was the founder, he named the band and was immensely popular. As Wyman says in Stone Alone, the whole Jagger-Richards legendary period only started once Brian died.

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KeylockSanchezandCo
Do you have Terry Rawlings' book? I bought the first edition some years ago in the Charing Cross Road, and it contains a copy of a sworn affidavit by Keylock concerning Thorogood's confession, so why would he say it was a joke afterwards? I think the whole story of what went down that night is really spooky. And, to be perfectly honest, even though Charlie said "he was not worth murdering", I would beg to differ: he was the founder, he named the band and was immensely popular. As Wyman says in Stone Alone, the whole Jagger-Richards legendary period only started once Brian died.

Below is a snippet from a 1994 Crimewatch special where Rawlings' book is mentioned and footage of Keylock and Thorogood being interviewed at Cotchford Farm in 1993 is shown. Keylock is also interviewed in 1994 and presents the deathbed confession story and rationalizes the "Frank just snapped" scenario. I have a paperback edition of the book, though I haven't looked through it in a few years, since back when I was posting on the LARS site around 2007/2008. Regarding the confession in relation to what Keylock swore to, what's a sworn affidavit to a sociopath?

Personally, I think Keylock made up the deathbed confession story as a means of diverting attention away from his own complicity in the matter, once details of the case were being reexamined around that time. He was, after all, the first one at the scene of the crime after the 'accident'. And while alive even as late as 1993, Thorogood himself mentions only "finding" Brian at the bottom of the pool.

From reading Rawlings' book, you also read about Brian having received death threats by telephone while vacationing in Spain in May 1969. Initially, these threats were received by another guest at the hotel on a different floor who also had the name Jones, and who was very disturbed by the calls and reported them to hotel management. The calls were from someone with a Cockney accent laughingly telling the "other" Jones in the hotel that they were going to finish him off and that his days were numbered....

He wasnt murdered but maybe Frank "snapped". And maybe Keylock knew already in 1969 and decided to keep his mouth shut. And maybe Keylock tried to get a sworn confession out of Frank on his deathbed for that reason.

The casket was paid for by Bob Dylan. Brian was buried 12 feet deep as opposed to six as his family were worried about souvenier hunters.

*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-10-31 01:43 by Bassid6.

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Bassid6
Can someone show me the docs on that whole thing? Where does it say he was due a payment on 3 July? I have never gotten a straight answer on that, no matter how many times I had enquired. That does not exist. If you have something different, then show me it!

As far as I know, he just died in the pool because he was just being "Brian". Yeah?

July 3 was the first Monday, and therefore the first business day, in July, the month after he was fired. You can't fire a founding member without there being royalties issues involved, especially after he played on all those albums and with those albums still selling year after year. I don't have access to The Stones' office papers, so obviously I can't show them to you, but perhaps the original poster of this thread can tell you where they are located. However, your simple assertion that they don't exist is likewise not enough, because you have no proof that they don't exist.

Further, your claim that Brian just up and died in his pool because of some personal deficiency also leaves a lot to be desired. Your phrase "as far as I know" begs the question: OK, how do you know? Were you or someone you know actually there? Please present your proof, so the case can at last be put to rest for all time. Until such proof is put forward, alternate theories will continue to be speculated on ad nauseum.

As far as I know, I have never seen any signed papers between Jones and the Stones concerning the former's leaving the band and the implied payments. Do they exist? I don't know. Terry Rawlings' book does not contain copies of such documents, if they exist.