Quote
GravityBoy

Quote
Naturalust
I like to see it from that perspective instead of this greedy image some people who haven't a clue like to perpetuate. peace

Yeah.. but did you ever see the Mick pep talk video for the mechandise sellers on the tour.

Rock n Roll.

Not.

If you want to see Corporate Jagger in full flow then dig that one out.

I've never seen or heard of this. Tried to look it up on YouTube, but didn't see it. Or maybe I was using the wrong keywords. Would be interested to see it though.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that they haven't gotten along since around the Sticky Fingers sessions, when Keef's heroin addiction first started to become a problem and Jagger had to assume a larger share of the band responsibilities.

It's all been downhill since Edith Grove. They only really played nice when they were toddlers.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
It's all been downhill since Edith Grove. They only really played nice when they were toddlers.

they pissed anywhere then, for sure!

Does anyone not think the band broke up in the '80's? Keith especially had some very cutting remarks about Jagger. Jagger obviously got (gets) on Keith's nerves. So why did Keith return? Only he knows and I doubt that he has been straight up about the reason. Was he afraid of life without the Stones? Was it the money? Was it some loyalty to his life time friend? Or to Charlie and Woody? Remember Keith seemed to be getting the better of the solo careers. In any event, when the band returned he was a different person, unnecessarily eager to claim his place as a rock star personality. He became clownish, eager to be perceived as a happy. But to me he looks like more of a martyr. There is almost a self loathing there, a man who is struggling to take himself seriously, a man at odds with his motivations. None of this is a problem for Jagger who relishes in his public persona and seems content with it. I see parallels between Keith and Jagger and Lennon and McCartney. One can see how McCartney got on Lennon's nerves. If Lennon had returned would it feel right?

Quote
Redhotcarpet
They were friends up until Mick slept with Anita.

You're right. Page 255 Life

Quote
ManuelStones

Quote
Redhotcarpet
They were friends up until Mick slept with Anita.

You're right. Page 255 Life

And Im reading Charones book again. OK. the parts about him kicking addiction right after the bust is pure nonsense - I get it, the book was published in 1979 and it's PR for the judge. But other than that its filled with very poignant quotes about Keith, some about Brian and also Mick, by Charlie, Korner and others.

I get the impression they were friends because of the songwriting deal with Oldham with Brian as a scape goat (Charones words or possibly someone else shes quoting) and with Brian being the star of the band they could always say they are forced to do the songwriting.

When Mick sleeps with Anita their friendship is over, Keith can never trust Mick again and needs a real friend a finds Gram and heroin, then Bobby and heroin and then Ronnie (sort of) and heroin. Anita cant get Mick so she returns to Keith. And with the help of heroin the band survives. And Keith needs the band. They remain friends but with a bleeding wound that will never heal. They have to stay friends and probably are for a couple of more years, but with a total brutal and creative honesty and some hostality. This doesnt last for long but Keith drifts away already in Nellcote. So years later when Micks ultimatum for a tour in 1981 is that Keith kicks heroin, he kicks heroin. Because Brian and Keith both needed the band and would not survive without the band, thats why he kicks it before the 1981 tour.
Mick didnt need the band but he was forced to make a business deal with Keith - Vegas era - not because of friendship



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-24 02:39 by Redhotcarpet.

Keith doing heroin and writing You got the Silver (according to Charone) and Gimme Shelter while Anita is trying to seduce Mick.


Hey babe, what's in your eyes?
I saw them flashing like airplane lights
You fill my cup, babe, that's for sure
I must come back for a little more

You got my heart you got my soul
You got the silver you got the gold
You got the diamonds from the mine
Well that's all right, it'll buy some time

Tell me, honey, what will I do
When I'm hungry and thirsty too
Feeling foolish (and that's for sure)
Just waiting here at your kitchen door?

Hey baby, what's in your eyes?
Is that the diamonds from the mine?
What's that laughing in your smile?
I don't care, no, I don't care

Oh babe, you got my soul
You got the silver you got the gold
A flash of love, just made me blind
I don't care, no, that's the big surprise

>>>Does anyone not think the band broke up in the '80's?

Mick's signing a contract to do three solo albums would support this. But just as with his women, he didn't like to break up the band until he was certain that his new project or r'ship would succeed.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
It's all been downhill since Edith Grove. They only really played nice when they were toddlers.

Thing is I dont think they ever really were close friends, more like George (keith) hanging around John (mick). Mick seems like an independent and very different person who saw an oppurtunity to become a singer with the help of Brian, Korner and Keith. After being labled Jagger/Richards it's really a business, one which is crucial for Keith but not for Mick. Mick could always have gone solo (and fail), Keith is the one who's stuck within that partnership. Had Keith confronted Mick and done what he usually does the band would have gone out with Beggars.

When Keith was cool and semi productive Mick liked to be his Glimmer Twin on stage and officially (70s) but theres a huge difference between their social lives in 1967 and later on. Like a couple keeping up appearences and enjoying being seen as partners but not really having anything to do with eachother. The can was empty by 1981.

Quote
pmk251
Does anyone not think the band broke up in the '80's? Keith especially had some very cutting remarks about Jagger. Jagger obviously got (gets) on Keith's nerves. So why did Keith return? Only he knows and I doubt that he has been straight up about the reason. Was he afraid of life without the Stones? Was it the money? Was it some loyalty to his life time friend? Or to Charlie and Woody? Remember Keith seemed to be getting the better of the solo careers. In any event, when the band returned he was a different person, unnecessarily eager to claim his place as a rock star personality. He became clownish, eager to be perceived as a happy. But to me he looks like more of a martyr. There is almost a self loathing there, a man who is struggling to take himself seriously, a man at odds with his motivations. None of this is a problem for Jagger who relishes in his public persona and seems content with it. I see parallels between Keith and Jagger and Lennon and McCartney. One can see how McCartney got on Lennon's nerves. If Lennon had returned would it feel right?

It's been said by many people close to the band that in the wake of WWIII and following Dirty Work, the band rather quietly and privately broke up but never said so officially. Guessing they wanted the public to continue thinking of the Stones as an ongoing band just in case...It took the diplomacy of buffer zone Ron Wood to get Mick and Keith to speak to each other again leading to the reconvening in 1989. Mick and Keith both knew that the fans were eager to see both of them in the context of The Rolling Stones, and Mick especially learned the hard way that he was never going to be a huge draw as a solo act. Another Stones album and tour? The Glimmer twins knew there was a fortune to be made by working as the Stones again. Money talks. I don't think they really hate each other. They just drifted towards different lifestyles and didn't have much in common as the years rolled on.

Since reading Bill German's book which documents life in the Stones during the 1980's, I really walked away with the sense that it was just more or less a business relationship; the boys getting together (especially Jagger) for the loads of money that could be made.

This topic has been done to death. I think there is a mutual respect between the two and that they do care for one another but look at them they are two VERY different people who have very different interests what keeps bringing them back is music and yes money and why should they not make money off of what they have done and acheived?? I get sick of the name calling and people acting like insiders. I don't really know how they get along I AINT THERE!

Quote
stonesdan60

Quote
pmk251
Does anyone not think the band broke up in the '80's? Keith especially had some very cutting remarks about Jagger. Jagger obviously got (gets) on Keith's nerves. So why did Keith return? Only he knows and I doubt that he has been straight up about the reason. Was he afraid of life without the Stones? Was it the money? Was it some loyalty to his life time friend? Or to Charlie and Woody? Remember Keith seemed to be getting the better of the solo careers. In any event, when the band returned he was a different person, unnecessarily eager to claim his place as a rock star personality. He became clownish, eager to be perceived as a happy. But to me he looks like more of a martyr. There is almost a self loathing there, a man who is struggling to take himself seriously, a man at odds with his motivations. None of this is a problem for Jagger who relishes in his public persona and seems content with it. I see parallels between Keith and Jagger and Lennon and McCartney. One can see how McCartney got on Lennon's nerves. If Lennon had returned would it feel right?

It's been said by many people close to the band that in the wake of WWIII and following Dirty Work, the band rather quietly and privately broke up but never said so officially. Guessing they wanted the public to continue thinking of the Stones as an ongoing band just in case...It took the diplomacy of buffer zone Ron Wood to get Mick and Keith to speak to each other again leading to the reconvening in 1989. Mick and Keith both knew that the fans were eager to see both of them in the context of The Rolling Stones, and Mick especially learned the hard way that he was never going to be a huge draw as a solo act. Another Stones album and tour? The Glimmer twins knew there was a fortune to be made by working as the Stones again. Money talks. I don't think they really hate each other. They just drifted towards different lifestyles and didn't have much in common as the years rolled on.

I run to this quote from great timeisonourside.com. It is from 1987 - during the 'war' - and I can't recall Jagger being so aggressive about the Stones ever. He really sounds sick and tired to the whole band, and to the fact that he is assocated to it (and I think he is once again - in the middle of doing a solo career - reminded of it). I can't really think that the Rolling Stones existed in any form during that moment.

Would the Rolling Stones breaking up be a tragedy?

No. Not at ALL! (laughs). It's very funny because while you're around and in no danger of extinction everyone's ready to kick you and say, Well, why don't you just break up? Your band is really pointless, just doing the same thing over and over and over so why don't you just @#$%& off and die? And then when you ARE in danger of extinction they all go, What's the matter, man? You should reform, man. I mean, it's the Rolling STONES, maaan. They don't give a shit about what you feel and what you have to go through to preserve this monstrous image intact. It's ridiculous. No one should care if the Rolling Stones have broken up, should they? I mean, when the Beatles broke up I couldn't give a shit. Thought it was a very good idea. And I don't believe that the Smiths' guitarist has left is of any import to anyone whatsoever. I don't think anyone should give a shit. But with me people seem to demand that I keep their youthful memories intact in a glass case specifically preserved for them and damn the sacrifices I have to make. Oh, the Stones, it's part of my youth, man, they say, because they saw you in Hyde Park 18 years ago and they have their @#$%& conservative little mental picture of you and they don't want you to change - not that they've bought a record of yours in 15 years. Why should I live in the past just for THEIR petty... satisfaction?

The Rolling Stones does not tend to be associated with happy moments. It was kicking people in the teeth and just being happy that we survived.
- Mick Jagger (August -87)

I especially note the sentences:

They don't give a shit about what you feel and what you have to go through to preserve this monstrous image intact. It's ridiculous.

Damn tough and straght tough words from 'diplomatic' Jagger. One can see that Mick Jagger's creative heart is no any longer in that direction. And I don't think ever since. But business is business, etc.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-26 14:23 by Doxa.

the last time i saw the stones micks father had passed away the night before and he was flying home after the show.keith had his arm around mick and was holding him very close as they walked off stage.it was very obviously not the usual stones with their arms around each other look we've all seen a million times but a friend hugging a friend.it was a lump-in -your-throat moment believe me

at that second i realised that all the hangers on,fans,journalists and even other musicians probably know about 1/10th of what goes on with mick and keith.

Read or re-read this article by journalist Bill Wyman.

[www.slate.com]

You will get a real sense of what working with Keith turned into for Mick after the first few years of their creative and business partnership.

we've been over all that a million times-

my point was there is something more there than a "creative and business partnership"- they each keep coming back dont they?and they still ended up sitting on a couch together with acoustic guitars writing a bigger bang.

...and they'll end up doing some gigs for the 50th.

Do you have a close friend in your life which you got along for 50 years? Did anyone of you ever experience such long life ?
All on this board must admit with a NO. Mick and Keith get a long very well, but argue like all other people. I am pretty sure they know exactly where their way of living is and they now that it is thousand miles apart, but still so close to accept each others dilemmas.
And with a little bit of big money the stone is rolling.

Quote
Grison
Do you have a close friend in your life which you got along for 50 years? Did anyone of you ever experience such long life ?
All on this board must admit with a NO. Mick and Keith get a long very well, but argue like all other people. I am pretty sure they know exactly where their way of living is and they now that it is thousand miles apart, but still so close to accept each others dilemmas.
And with a little bit of big money the stone is rolling.

Very good point. I was friends with a guy since I was in the first grade. Eventually we both learned guitar and started a band in Junior High. We got pretty good. The band stayed together with all the same members form Junior High until we were in our thirties. My friend and I wrote all the songs and were co-leaders of the band. In high school we were close friends and hung out all the time, partying and jamming. Like so many others, we did the bars and clubs forever, hoping we'd make it. Of course, many try. Most don't make it. But my friend and I gradually moved in different directions and it became harder and harder to get along. If we had made it, how would we have handled our partnership? If there was success and big money to be made, I'm sure we would have worked together but not bothered much with each other apart from the band. I'm guessing it's sort of like that with Mick and Keith. To keep something like that going for 50 years has got to be damn hard.

Quote
Grison
Do you have a close friend in your life which you got along for 50 years? Did anyone of you ever experience such long life ?
All on this board must admit with a NO. Mick and Keith get a long very well, but argue like all other people. I am pretty sure they know exactly where their way of living is and they now that it is thousand miles apart, but still so close to accept each others dilemmas.
And with a little bit of big money the stone is rolling.

Mick slept with Keiths girlfriend. Keith went deeper into his heroin use and found a new friend, Gram Parsons. Mick and Keith were businesspartners from the start, they knew eachother from school. Keith is and has always been the one who follows Mick. Mick left Keith more than 30 years ago.

they (Stones) don't care one bit about you...just your money..been that way since bout 1981

Lem Motlow, thanks for your post. You got it right. Nice to have a true statement amidst the fantasizing.

Quote
21stcenturystones
they (Stones) don't care one bit about you...just your money..been that way since bout 1981

It's ALWAYS been like that. Who cares? As long as the music's great, I'm happy.

JumpingKentFlash

Quote
Bliss
Read or re-read this article by journalist Bill Wyman.

[www.slate.com]

You will get a real sense of what working with Keith turned into for Mick after the first few years of their creative and business partnership.

Wasn't this proved to be made by a fan?

JumpingKentFlash

Quote
JumpingKentFlash

Quote
Bliss
Read or re-read this article by journalist Bill Wyman.

[www.slate.com]

You will get a real sense of what working with Keith turned into for Mick after the first few years of their creative and business partnership.

Wasn't this proved to be made by a fan?

No, it was written by a rock journalist. But to me, it is probably the best analysis of the Stones' history and Mick and Keith's r'ship.

Quote
21stcenturystones
they (Stones) don't care one bit about you...just your money..been that way since bout 1981

Sorry but the Rolling Stones set ticketprice records since 1972. They always had the highest ticket prices when getting on tour and not just since 81.

Quote
Grison

Quote
21stcenturystones
they (Stones) don't care one bit about you...just your money..been that way since bout 1981

Sorry but the Rolling Stones set ticketprice records since 1972. They always had the highest ticket prices when getting on tour and not just since 81.

Ticket prices for most major bands have gone through the roof over the years. Just the way it is. I remember paying about $12.50 for my Stones ticket in 1978. In 1981 it was about $25.00. In 2005 I payed about $250 per ticket for very good seats close to the stage. Then again, in 2006 I paid a relatively mere $65.00 for seats at the far end of the stadium.