When the Stones performed on Ed Sullivan's show in 1969, Mick sang live to pre-recorded instrumental tracks, all identical (and shortened) to the released versions. His vocals were mixed low, just in case he decided to sing something naughty. Girls screams were also mixed into this audio.
I've just watched Amazon's promo video for the DVD release and on "Gimme Shelter" you can hear Merry Clayton's voice clearly, as well as a louder vocal from Mick, apparently due to the ordinary LP track being substituted for the actual Sullivan performance.
So much for authenticity.....

The vocals were mixed low because of the lyrics to "Gimme Shelter" and "Honky Tonk Women" neither of which were Primetime-friendly in 1969. This is what Mick is talking about during the press conference in the GIMME SHELTER documentary when he talks about being sanitized like washing detergent right before the classic "Are you satisfied?" question.

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thkbeercan
When the Stones performed on Ed Sullivan's show in 1969, Mick sang live to pre-recorded instrumental tracks, all identical (and shortened) to the released versions. His vocals were mixed low, just in case he decided to sing something naughty. Girls screams were also mixed into this audio.
I've just watched Amazon's promo video for the DVD release and on "Gimme Shelter" you can hear Merry Clayton's voice clearly, as well as a louder vocal from Mick, apparently due to the ordinary LP track being substituted for the actual Sullivan performance.
So much for authenticity.....

Thanks for the warning!

I have always wondered about junk like this. Can someone enlighten me as to why performances were occasionally lip-sync'd and other times live?

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flacnvinyl
I have always wondered about junk like this. Can someone enlighten me as to why performances were occasionally lip-sync'd and other times live?

Well this on obviously has a live vocal over a pre-recorded backing track, just as the 4th, 5th & 6th Ed Sullivan appearances did (the earlier Ed Sullivan shows were totally live).

I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

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CrissCrossMind
I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

I agree, but it will be even worse on the new DVD with dubbed studio version(s) used instead.

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Sleepy City

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CrissCrossMind
I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

I agree, but it will be even worse on the new DVD with dubbed studio version(s) used instead.

That will take some effort. The Ed Sullivan performance of Gimme Shelter also kinda roughly edits out the rape, murder bit...

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
The vocals were mixed low because of the lyrics to "Gimme Shelter" and "Honky Tonk Women" neither of which were Primetime-friendly in 1969. This is what Mick is talking about during the press conference in the GIMME SHELTER documentary when he talks about being sanitized like washing detergent right before the classic "Are you satisfied?" question.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, but wasn't that answer to the "Let's Spend Some Time Together" lyric change?

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Britney

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Sleepy City

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CrissCrossMind
I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

I agree, but it will be even worse on the new DVD with dubbed studio version(s) used instead.

That will take some effort. The Ed Sullivan performance of Gimme Shelter also kinda roughly edits out the rape, murder bit...

Yes, I'm curious to see / hear how well they do this.

You ever notice that on the 67 "Let's Spend Some Time" rehearsal show Keith is spot on with his b/u vocal but on the broadcast he flubs it? Hmmmm...a little bit of protesting under the radar?

Yeah, the Sullivan "Gimme Shelter" is alright now but Merry Clayton's vocal is in there and you're going where the f*ck is she at? (since it's the LET IT BLEED album version they're using as the soundtrack now). Goofy sh*t !!!

THIS IS HOW THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT - LIVE JAGGER VOCAL 1969 BBC - KICKS ASS !!!




PROMO FOR THE 2 different SULLIVAN DVD PACKAGES - 4 SHOWS (12 songs) or 6 SHOWS (17 songs) - huh? (on the 12 songs only DVD Package the last show in 1969 is left off completely as well as one of the very early ones,
maybe their first appearance..... Complicated for no reason what so ever - NEW, LET IT BLEED SOUNDTRACK VERSION OF GIMME SHELTER AT 2:00 (I HEAR Merry Clayton but Where the F*ck is she? Ridiculous!!)




HONKY TONK WOMAN - ORIGINAL VOCAL, PRE-FIXED ED SULLIVAN SHOW. SO LOW ON THE VOCALS - HORRIBLE !!!

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Sleepy City

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CrissCrossMind
I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

I agree, but it will be even worse on the new DVD with dubbed studio version(s) used instead.

Please tell me you're kidding.

Ah well, that's one less purchase to make in November, then....

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Gazza

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Sleepy City

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CrissCrossMind
I have a Boot Video of all the Stone's Ed Sullivan shows and the last one (Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain, Honky Tonk Woman) SUCKS big time cause the vocals are so f*cking turned down it sounds HORRIBLE !!! What a way to ruin a great performance, SO stupid, SO paranoid......

I agree, but it will be even worse on the new DVD with dubbed studio version(s) used instead.

Please tell me you're kidding.

Ah well, that's one less purchase to make in November, then....

Maybe someone who's good at redubbing can use the proper ("quite vocal") version? That way we'll have them as they were broadcast but with (hopefully) perfect picture quality.

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scottkeef
You ever notice that on the 67 "Let's Spend Some Time" rehearsal show Keith is spot on with his b/u vocal but on the broadcast he flubs it? Hmmmm...a little bit of protesting under the radar?

Stagefright - he was just shit nervous.

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treaclefingers

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
The vocals were mixed low because of the lyrics to "Gimme Shelter" and "Honky Tonk Women" neither of which were Primetime-friendly in 1969. This is what Mick is talking about during the press conference in the GIMME SHELTER documentary when he talks about being sanitized like washing detergent right before the classic "Are you satisfied?" question.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, but wasn't that answer to the "Let's Spend Some Time Together" lyric change?

No, they had just played Sullivan. If you remember Ed asks Mick where they're going to next and he says MSG. Ed tells him he'll see him backstage. At the press conference, the reporter brings up the lyric change last time they were on and then mentions burying the vocals (from the appearance that aired a few days earlier). Mick says something like "It's all bullshit. First you're this, then you're dishwashing detergent. It doesn't matter."

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Gazza
Please tell me you're kidding.

Ah well, that's one less purchase to make in November, then....

Yeah but Gazza, you do get some excellent stuff also -

GREAT VERSIONS OF:

As Tears Go By (Just Mick and Keith)
Satisfaction (one of the best TV versions - great mix)
Little Red Rooster (Real Tight Version)
The Last Time
19th Nervous Breakdown
Ruby Tuesday
Paint It Black (Mick's haircut REALLY needs some work, he did get it right in late 1968/69)

You do loose 2 early B/W ones with the non - Deluxe version (12 songs/4 shows) so I'll go for the deluxe version. LOVE IN VAIN is not too bad, best of the 3.

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CrissCrossMind
Satisfaction (one of the best TV versions - great mix)

Great mix? The rhythm guitar almost drowns out Keith's lead...

I've seen those '69 performances and they are pretty stupid, considering how great the band would have sounded live. But that won't stop me from getting the entire 6-DVD set. I will be just as interested in seeing the rest of the Ed Sullivan shows. These are great time capsules, with entertainers and types of entertainment long gone. I hope there's a plate spinner in there, or some weird acrobatic troupe from Bulgaria or dancing Russian Bears. I'm curious if the commercials remain too, which are just as interesting as the shows. Unfortunately they might cut out any cigarette commercials. I know they cut out at least one Kent cigarette commercial from the Beatles first appearance on Sullivan, because I've seen the unedited tape of that broadcast at the Radio and TV Museum. There's also a girl licking her tongue in a lascivious way at the Beatles that is not on the DVD.

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alimente

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scottkeef
You ever notice that on the 67 "Let's Spend Some Time" rehearsal show Keith is spot on with his b/u vocal but on the broadcast he flubs it? Hmmmm...a little bit of protesting under the radar?

Stagefright - he was just shit nervous.

!967 after all the concerts and tv shows he had done? thats HIGHLY unlikely.

BTW they are not including this rehearsal show,right? so dont throw your boots out yet...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-18 01:21 by scottkeef.

One thought is they used a recording so the time allotment would not change and possibly disrupt the commercial schedule...

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flacnvinyl
I have always wondered about junk like this. Can someone enlighten me as to why performances were occasionally lip-sync'd and other times live?

Funny, Keith looks f*ckin cool here, and on the Marquee gig he's wearing the exact same clothes and looks like shit. Sorry for the digression.

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DragonSky
One thought is they used a recording so the time allotment would not change and possibly disrupt the commercial schedule...

The segment was pretaped on 18th November 1969, & broadcast on 23rd November 1969. So this wasn't an issue (if they did versions too long they would've just been told to do it again).

Probably EXACTLY correct DragonSky, makes total sense to me now that you lay it out (I always wondered why they did that) CCMind

Sleepy City, yeah but this was the 60's you must remember. Could have been repeating the songs for hours and hours with all the drugs and lack of total professionalism (in a good way - look at WOODSTOCK) that was floating around in those days - I remember the attitude well being a very young lad meself - lol CCMind



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-18 10:31 by CrissCrossMind.

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Sleepy City

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DragonSky
One thought is they used a recording so the time allotment would not change and possibly disrupt the commercial schedule...

The segment was pretaped on 18th November 1969, & broadcast on 23rd November 1969. So this wasn't an issue (if they did versions too long they would've just been told to do it again).

So they recorded it and it was played during the show? How strange. Did the audience in the theatre get to see it?

It would still need to be x-amount long right? Gotta get those commercials in there.

There may have been other reasons - they didn't want to bother actually recording the music; they couldn't actually record the music/band in a convincing manner; the record label wanted the LP version used with Jagger singing over it because it sounded like the LP version then and people would immediately identify it. The band didn't feel like playing it. Mars was in post-retrograde with Pluto. Etc...

Such a mystery.

>So they recorded it and it was played during the show? How strange.

Recommended reading: TRUE ADVENTURES OF THE ROLLING STONES by Stanley Booth.

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DragonSky
There may have been other reasons - they didn't want to bother actually recording the music; they couldn't actually record the music/band in a convincing manner; the record label wanted the LP version used with Jagger singing over it because it sounded like the LP version then and people would immediately identify it. The band didn't feel like playing it. Mars was in post-retrograde with Pluto. Etc...

Such a mystery.

what i've read is that the tv-studio sound systems & crews just weren't equipped to get the sound right -
for example that Sullivan Satisfaction where they had no idea how to mix the lead guitar.
after that the band brought their own backing tapes so that the sound was closer to how they wanted it -
except for those muffled 1969 vocals of course.

the interesting bit is that the earliest UK TV appearances were mimed but the earliest US shows were bona fide performances.
apparently the UK TV studios were so very lame for rock & roll purposes that they didn't even attempt it until mid-65 or so.
(later of course they also went the "live vocal + backing tack" route)

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with sssoul
The interesting bit is that the earliest UK TV appearances were mimed but the earliest US shows were bona fide performances.
apparently the UK TV studios were so very lame for rock & roll purposes that they didn't even attempt it until mid-65 or so.
(later of course they also went the "live vocal + backing tack" route)

The Arthur Haynes Show (UK, February 1964) was live, & that was predominantly a comedy show... while The Red Skelton Show (a US comedy show) was mimed. So it's not quite that clear cut.

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Sleepy City
The Arthur Haynes Show (UK, February 1964) was live, & that was predominantly a comedy show... while The Red Skelton Show (a US comedy show) was mimed. So it's not quite that clear cut.

ah but that Red Skelton show was taped in London (at the Palladium, to be exact).
but in any case, right - it's not quite that clearcut, especially the UK side of things.
i was generalizing. have some popcorn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-19 18:13 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul

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Sleepy City
The Arthur Haynes Show (UK, February 1964) was live, & that was predominantly a comedy show... while The Red Skelton Show (a US comedy show) was mimed. So it's not quite that clear cut.

ah but that Red Skelton show was taped in London (at the Palladium, to be exact).
but in any case, right - it's not quite that clearcut, especially the UK side of things.
i was generalizing. have some popcorn

Shivaree wasn't... nice popcorn!