I just casually read the credits for my copy of Exile while listening to it today and read M Jagger Guitar on Tumbling Dice! I have never noticed before or thought about it. Really???? I know he plays guitar on a few tunes but which part does he play, it all sounds like Keith to me.Is this part of Exile's famously confusing credits? Did Jagger write the music, I always thought it was a Keith tune.

Please enlighten me!

PS I would love to know how some members of this forum get their very detailed info about who plays what on Stones LPs. While it is pretty easy to tell by certain stylist cues of the players on some tunes, on others it seems pure guess work. Is there a reference book which outlines details of sessions and overdubs I can get?

Thanks

Yes there are books; but you could go to Ian's site 'Time Is On Our Side' e.g.. All Stones cuts w/ individual credits are listed there.
What is good about a site like this, is that many corrections have been made, and keep this very factual. Many of these credits have been discussed and argued over on these very pages. Usually once a site like Ian's lists it, it has been widely considred to be correct.

What I've always wondered is if one of the actually audible guitars is Mick or is he totally buried in the mix?

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

My guess is that lot of the guitars which makes TD an amazing tune, on that song has to do with Keith. From the opening guitar lick to the long and genial guitar break in the middle than to the finish. May be Jagger wrote the melody supported by a basic r&r boogie rhythm on the verses, but the great guitar parts are Keith. I read somewhere that keith worked very hard on those guitar breaks playing them again and again for hours in the basement at nellcote to get them right and he did.
Rock and roll,
mops

In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

In my guitarworld is Lead = Sologuitar and that is for sure Ronnie/Taylor...

Keith had a couple of solos in Sympathy and that's that...people goes on telling that Keith is playing those Heavy sticks in 'Let it bleed' but I'm not buying that...everybody that knows Stones can hear that Taylor is playing those sticks even if some litterature said something else...

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

In my guitarworld is Lead = Sologuitar and that is for sure Ronnie/Taylor...

Keith had a couple of solos in Sympathy and that's that...people goes on telling that Keith is playing those Heavy sticks in 'Let it bleed' but I'm not buying that...everybody that knows Stones can hear that Taylor is playing those sticks even if some litterature said something else...

Taylor only plays on Live With Me and Country Honk on LIB.

Who hacked your account?

Assorted Keith solos:

Brian era:
Carol
It's All Over Now
Down The Road Apiece
Under My Thumb
Stupid Girl
Sympathy For The Devil
Parachute Woman
Gimmie Shelter
Love In Vain
Let It Bleed
You Got The Silver

Taylor era:
Wild Horses
Bitch
Tumbling Dice
Happy
Star Star
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
Short And Curlies

And just about 50 percent of the solos after Ronnie joined that band...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-07-16 17:41 by DandelionPowderman.

Is "who hacked your account?"a new way of saying, like "Who peed in your Wheaties?"

Who hacked your account?

Pete Best maybe ... No it's me, listening to 'Let it Bleed' and drinking Brandy...My comment to all those solo-guitarfacts is: Don't Believe Everything you read...Harrison is taken away from many back-up facts and even solo-vocal Reading about who did who on The Beatles records...Keith could have played Everything on this record LIB but Taylor for sure showed him how to found the Taoylorish sound on some stuff there...

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Come On
Who hacked your account?

Pete Best maybe ... No it's me, listening to 'Let it Bleed' and drinking Brandy...My comment to all those solo-guitarfacts is: Don't Believe Everything you read...Harrison is taken away from many back-up facts and even solo-vocal Reading about who did who on The Beatles records...Keith could have played Everything on this record LIB but Taylor for sure showed him how to found the Taoylorish sound on some stuff there...

You think I read this somewhere? Come on, gimme more credit than that!

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
Who hacked your account?

Pete Best maybe ... No it's me, listening to 'Let it Bleed' and drinking Brandy...My comment to all those solo-guitarfacts is: Don't Believe Everything you read...Harrison is taken away from many back-up facts and even solo-vocal Reading about who did who on The Beatles records...Keith could have played Everything on this record LIB but Taylor for sure showed him how to found the Taoylorish sound on some stuff there...

You think I read this somewhere? Come on, gimme more credit than that!

Sure I do! You got the credit ...

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The guitar playing on Let It Bleed does not sound like Mick Taylor in my opinion at all. That is Keith. Taylor was not in the band when most of the songs were being worked. The album came out in late 69 but some of the songs were being worked as early as 1968. They played YCAGWYW at the Circus long before MT was even a thought.

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slew
The guitar playing on Let It Bleed does not sound like Mick Taylor in my opinion at all. That is Keith. Taylor was not in the band when most of the songs were being worked. The album came out in late 69 but some of the songs were being worked as early as 1968. They played YCAGWYW at the Circus long before MT was even a thought.

Taylor only played the rhythm guitar on LWM and the slide on Country Honk.

Come on is just teasing us

Line-up ‘Tumbling Dice’: MJ (voc, gtr)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/MT (bass)/CW (dr)/
Nicky Hopkins (p)/Jimmy Miller (some dr)/Bobby Keys (sax)/
Jim Price (tp and/or tb)/Venetta Fields, Clydie King and Sherlie
Matthews (bvoc)

[www.nzentgraf.de]

Probable line-up:

Drums: Charlie Watts & Jimmy Miller
Bass: Mick Taylor
Electric guitars: Keith Richards (incl. solo) & Mick Jagger
Lead vocal: Mick Jagger
Harmony vocal: Keith Richards
Background vocals: Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Clydie King, Venetta Fields & Sherlie Matthews
Piano: Nicky Hopkins
Saxophone: Bobby Keys
Trumpet: Jim Price

[www.timeisonourside.com]

And, yes, Mick Taylor played only on Country Honk and Live With Me on LET IT BLEED and of course Honky Tonk Women and Jiving Sister Fanny.

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Not my favourite either. Even the live versions with Taylor are boring. They should have skipped 33%. It just goes on too long.

I don't agree. "Good Time Women" is a middle of the road song, with nothing much of anything. That is just another reason what makes the studio version of TD so magical. The way that very first guitar, the intro riff, just bursts out of the gates. That mst b Keith.
And in those years IMO Jagger had a great right hand on guitar. He played a chugga kind of rhythm that contributes greatly to this magical midtempo groove. One hears that full, muscular tone on "Sway" and "Stop Breakin Down" too.
I think Jagger in 70's had a distinctive guitar sound.

Taylor did not play the solos on Bitch, Tumbling Dice, or Wild Horses - all Keith.

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

In my guitarworld is Lead = Sologuitar and that is for sure Ronnie/Taylor...

Keith had a couple of solos in Sympathy and that's that...people goes on telling that Keith is playing those Heavy sticks in 'Let it bleed' but I'm not buying that...everybody that knows Stones can hear that Taylor is playing those sticks even if some litterature said something else...

Taylor only plays on Live With Me and Country Honk on LIB.

Who hacked your account?

Assorted Keith solos:

Brian era:
Carol
It's All Over Now
Down The Road Apiece
Under My Thumb
Stupid Girl
Sympathy For The Devil
Parachute Woman
Gimmie Shelter
Love In Vain
Let It Bleed
You Got The Silver

Taylor era:
Wild Horses
Bitch
Tumbling Dice
Happy
Star Star
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
Short And Curlies

And just about 50 percent of the solos after Ronnie joined that band...

And let's not his masterpiece and the incredible guitar solo on it, Monkey Man.

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Silver Dagger

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

In my guitarworld is Lead = Sologuitar and that is for sure Ronnie/Taylor...

Keith had a couple of solos in Sympathy and that's that...people goes on telling that Keith is playing those Heavy sticks in 'Let it bleed' but I'm not buying that...everybody that knows Stones can hear that Taylor is playing those sticks even if some litterature said something else...

Taylor only plays on Live With Me and Country Honk on LIB.

Who hacked your account?

Assorted Keith solos:

Brian era:
Carol
It's All Over Now
Down The Road Apiece
Under My Thumb
Stupid Girl
Sympathy For The Devil
Parachute Woman
Gimmie Shelter
Love In Vain
Let It Bleed
You Got The Silver

Taylor era:
Wild Horses
Bitch
Tumbling Dice
Happy
Star Star
Ain't Too Proud To Beg
Short And Curlies

And just about 50 percent of the solos after Ronnie joined that band...

And let's not his masterpiece and the incredible guitar solo on it, Monkey Man.

Indeed. ALL his guitars on MM are ace. Apart from his slide solo, the riffing is tremendous.

Keith plays some mean guitar. 'Let it Bleed' was a statement of sorts; In retrospect. Im sure he didn't set out saying "I am going to play all the solos on this album to cement my legacy". There was an album to do, lots of very good songs to record, and a shortage of guitarists in Stones - so he played all the parts; and it turned out great. It works for one album.
But I was listening to some Voodoo Stew yesterday, and he's doing "Possesses Me". One of the rare jams with Bass n it. But Keith is playing some really bent little runs. On the lower strings especially; they're like blasts on a machine gun.

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

Yes

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Stones50

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On

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DandelionPowderman

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Come On
In my opinion ' Tumbling Dice ' is a miserable middle of the road song and Mick Jagger as lead guitarist full on par with ' The Eagle ' as a ski jumper. A statement well worth putting your teeth in yes?

Mick Jagger is not the lead guitarist on TD. Keith is. Mick plays one of the rhythm guitars. There are a few of them...

HA! Yeah I can go talking for hours about Jaggers Harp-playing, but his guitarplaying even if it's of course is rhythm this time and every time I guess...Isn't RonnIe our lead-guitarist and Taylor Before that and Brian Before that....

No

Yes

Yes to what? I wanna be difficult and claim that Brian played the solos in the 60s? Or that Keith didn't play solos in the 70's? That Ronnie and Keith don't share the leads?

What did you mean exactly?

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Palace Revolution 2000
Yes there are books; but you could go to Ian's site 'Time Is On Our Side' e.g.. All Stones cuts w/ individual credits are listed there.
What is good about a site like this, is that many corrections have been made, and keep this very factual. Many of these credits have been discussed and argued over on these very pages. Usually once a site like Ian's lists it, it has been widely considred to be correct.

Thanks for this!

Keith's lead playing must have suffered because of his drug problem in the 70's? I always think it is strange that people say Taylor can't play rhythm and Richards can't play lead. There are plenty of examples of Taylor playing sympathetically on rhythm (You Got The Blues, Hip Shake) and Keith playing great leads (Sympathy, Gimme Shelter).

They both seem to play stuff that works on the best tunes but of course there are a few tunes that they don't nail. I think Taylor never seemed to "get" Tumblin Dice, live, so his bass playing on the studio cut works perfectly.

I imagine the basic tracks for Tumbling Dice had Jagger and Richards on rhythm guitars and Taylor on bass, then Richards went crazy with overdubs. He tended to do that on songs he was particularly fond of.

I think the reason there are so many people listed on the Exile credits is due to the fact there were many takes of songs, so at some point, for instance, Taylor recorded a guitar track and because it is written on the tape notes, whomever compiled the credits probably just listed everybody on the notes regardless of if it made the final mix.

I still believe there is some Taylor guitar buried for most of Loving Cup and Torn and Frayed that pops up at certain points. I know many don't agree, but those mixes are dense!

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TravelinMan
I imagine the basic tracks for Tumbling Dice had Jagger and Richards on rhythm guitars and Taylor on bass, then Richards went crazy with overdubs. He tended to do that on songs he was particularly fond of.

I think the reason there are so many people listed on the Exile credits is due to the fact there were many takes of songs, so at some point, for instance, Taylor recorded a guitar track and because it is written on the tape notes, whomever compiled the credits probably just listed everybody on the notes regardless of if it made the final mix.

I still believe there is some Taylor guitar buried for most of Loving Cup and Torn and Frayed that pops up at certain points. I know many don't agree, but those mixes are dense!

Out of interest was there any reason Richards got so into layers of guitars? On Let It Bleed and Sticky Fingers it is fairly stripped back, or is it more a case of Exile having a bit of a murky mix compared with SF?