Some of you may remember when Gibson was raided by the feds last year over allegedly importing illegal wood and ebony to use in making their guitars. It caused a bit of a political stink, with many claiming it was a case of overrreaching regulators. Anyhow, the case has now been settled.

[www.politico.com]

At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

My black Gibson SG Standard is a 2004 model (with Mother-of-Pearl inlayed frets), so at least that one's kosher, no?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-07 10:44 by stonesnow.

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stonesnow

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Mathijs

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

My black Gibson SG Standard is a 2004 model (with Mother-of-Pearl inlayed frets), so at least that one's kosher, no?

It has a rosewood board, not an ebony board.

Mathijs

I haven't liked the way Gibson do business for many years now.
Unless you're spending serious bucks on a high end VOS or similar...give me a Japanese Tokai any day of the week.

I agree with Spud but give me a burny.
However I am disappointed in this administration's decision to go after Gibson. Oppose the machine and the machine will crush you.

Go Dawgs!

Would the guitar experts around here care to explain why ebony is different / superior musically to rosewood?

It's not superior...but it is different.

Ebony is very dense, hard wood. This imparts a brighter and subtly more percussive tonality.
Rosewood has a slightly softer and warmer response.

The issue is not so much the quality of the wood as the perception of quality.
Ebony has long been associated with high end, top of the range instruments.
This has always tempted makers of lower cost guitars to ebonise [stain black] other woods for a more up-market appearance.

[To be fair to Gibson, they have been at the forefront in exprerimenting with synthetic fretboard materials which mimic the response and feel of decent wood.]

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Spud

[To be fair to Gibson, they have been at the forefront in exprerimenting with synthetic fretboard materials which mimic the response and feel of decent wood.]

I have never heard of Gibson doing this, can you explain?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

No that's not true. LP Customs still have ebony fingerboards. There are some NEW model LP Customs that come with maple and rosewood that are made for that reason. The ES 355 still comes with an ebony fingerboard. Mathijs you are misinformed by the color. Depends where the ebony is from. PRS can make a guitar with a Mexican ebony fingerboard which is medium to darker brown in color.

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Mathijs

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Spud

[To be fair to Gibson, they have been at the forefront in exprerimenting with synthetic fretboard materials which mimic the response and feel of decent wood.]

I have never heard of Gibson doing this, can you explain?

Mathijs

I don't recall the name they use for the product but one or two of the recent plethora of affordable new LP models from Gibson are sporting these fretboards...a bit like that stuff Martin are playing about with I suspect.

[Haven't personally had my hands on one but I was quite happy with the Martin material on their entry level dreads. There'll always remain a gut yearning for proper tree wood I suppose...but I couldn't find much to fault with the feel or response.]

Obama tried to destroy Gibson Guitar but failed.

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mitchflorida1
Obama tried to destroy Gibson Guitar but failed.

lol. you're crazy. The law was put into effect in 2008 by George Bush. get your facts straight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-07 19:01 by More Hot Rocks.

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

No that's not true. LP Customs still have ebony fingerboards. There are some NEW model LP Customs that come with maple and rosewood that are made for that reason. The ES 355 still comes with an ebony fingerboard. Mathijs you are misinformed by the color. Depends where the ebony is from. PRS can make a guitar with a Mexican ebony fingerboard which is medium to darker brown in color.

Aha, that's what you mean. Actually, I understand all 2012 models of the LP Custom sport Richlite boards, after they experimented with baked maple and rosewood, laminated or not. The 355 situation is unclear: the 355's produced this year are all called 'limited edition' or whatever different name, as they sported laminated rosewood instead of ebony.

It seems that stock of ebony really dried up last year at Gibson, and good rosewood this year. This situation is really, really harming the name of Gibson as respected, high quality builder. For years they have been boosting the use of quality woods, and now they are saying table top material is just as good, and the price of instruments hasn't dropped. No one in the now would want a 2011/2012 Gibson Custom Shop instrument anymore -older models will be more popular, and hopefully the situation will change for the best for Gibson now the lawsuit has been settled.

Mathijs

Nothing is stated on Gibson's web site. It Does list guitars with ebony fingerboards. I'm not sure about the laminated fingerboards. I heard the rumor. It just might just that and no truth to it. Seams like no other company is having trouble with ebony. You can buy any high end acoustic with an ebony neck.

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Spud

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Mathijs

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Spud

[To be fair to Gibson, they have been at the forefront in exprerimenting with synthetic fretboard materials which mimic the response and feel of decent wood.]

I have never heard of Gibson doing this, can you explain?

Mathijs

I don't recall the name they use for the product but one or two of the recent plethora of affordable new LP models from Gibson are sporting these fretboards...a bit like that stuff Martin are playing about with I suspect.

[Haven't personally had my hands on one but I was quite happy with the Martin material on their entry level dreads. There'll always remain a gut yearning for proper tree wood I suppose...but I couldn't find much to fault with the feel or response.]

It's called richlite,

[www.richlite.com]

C

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More Hot Rocks

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mitchflorida1
Obama tried to destroy Gibson Guitar but failed.

lol. you're crazy. The law was put into effect in 2008 by George Bush. get your facts straight.

It was Obama who brought the lawsuit. Actually it was Obama's puppet, Eric Holder. Obama gets much $$$ from the Environmental Lobby.

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Green Lady
Would the guitar experts around here care to explain why ebony is different / superior musically to rosewood?

Fretboard warping. If you take your guitar out in the very cold or very hot weather for prolonged periods, the fretboard will bend. Fender fretboards are more fragile, and always warp more easily.

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More Hot Rocks

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Mathijs

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stonesnow
At least Gibsons are still made in the U.S. Fender currently outsources for cheapo labor in Mexico.

Yeah, but all LP and ES-355 Customs that used (and MUST) to have ebony boards are now suddenly made with rosewood boards painted black, as Gibson can't get a sufficient supply of ebony anymore...

Mathijs

No that's not true. LP Customs still have ebony fingerboards. There are some NEW model LP Customs that come with maple and rosewood that are made for that reason. The ES 355 still comes with an ebony fingerboard. Mathijs you are misinformed by the color. Depends where the ebony is from. PRS can make a guitar with a Mexican ebony fingerboard which is medium to darker brown in color.

So what about the 2004 Gibson SG Standard--is it in fact ebony then?

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More Hot Rocks
Nothing is stated on Gibson's web site. It Does list guitars with ebony fingerboards. I'm not sure about the laminated fingerboards. I heard the rumor. It just might just that and no truth to it. Seams like no other company is having trouble with ebony. You can buy any high end acoustic with an ebony neck.

There's lots of info about it on the Gibson website, even a FAQ. The mention baked maple, Richlite and laminated rosewood. On Lespaulforum.org there's many pictures and reviews of all these different materials.

But you're right about other companies -they indeed do not seem to have a problem in purchasing proper rosewood and ebony. Gibson states that it was the fault of the German vendor they purchased the wood from, but apparently Gibson purposedly misplaced labeling on stacks of wood. But I don't understand why they didn't source wood from other vendors, but instead moved to Richlite. Wheren't they allowed to purchase wood while the law suit wasn't settled?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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More Hot Rocks
Nothing is stated on Gibson's web site. It Does list guitars with ebony fingerboards. I'm not sure about the laminated fingerboards. I heard the rumor. It just might just that and no truth to it. Seams like no other company is having trouble with ebony. You can buy any high end acoustic with an ebony neck.

There's lots of info about it on the Gibson website, even a FAQ. The mention baked maple, Richlite and laminated rosewood. On Lespaulforum.org there's many pictures and reviews of all these different materials.

But you're right about other companies -they indeed do not seem to have a problem in purchasing proper rosewood and ebony. Gibson states that it was the fault of the German vendor they purchased the wood from, but apparently Gibson purposedly misplaced labeling on stacks of wood. But I don't understand why they didn't source wood from other vendors, but instead moved to Richlite. Wheren't they allowed to purchase wood while the law suit wasn't settled?

Mathijs

Any idea what it would do to the sound? How stable is it? etc What's next plywood?

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mitchflorida1
Obama tried to destroy Gibson Guitar but failed.

Oh Christ, there you go again. Yes, I'm sure the president is up late at night in the Oval Office scheming to take down Gibson. Your Obama hatred is so extreme it's hysterical. Give it a freakin' rest, or take it to a wing nut site.

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mitchflorida1

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More Hot Rocks

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mitchflorida1
Obama tried to destroy Gibson Guitar but failed.

lol. you're crazy. The law was put into effect in 2008 by George Bush. get your facts straight.

It was Obama who brought the lawsuit. Actually it was Obama's puppet, Eric Holder. Obama gets much $$$ from the Environmental Lobby.

Yeah...right..... maybe you should go on meds. Bush signed the bill. It's HIS law. Duh...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-08 14:53 by More Hot Rocks.

Q and A from Gibson about the fretboards

[www2.gibson.com]

From Gibson

[www2.gibson.com]

At the risk of getting into politics here, I thought this would interest some of you as a follow up to the Gibson story last summer.

This editoral about the Gibson Guitar raid from Investors Business got some press yesterday, in light of the IRS scandal here in the US.


[news.investors.com]

No surprise here.

Go Dawgs!

Juszkiewicz now knows what he has to do to be left alone... Hey wait a minute this is Sicily or the USA?

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latebloomer
At the risk of getting into politics here, I thought this would interest some of you as a follow up to the Gibson story last summer.

This editoral about the Gibson Guitar raid from Investors Business got some press yesterday, in light of the IRS scandal here in the US.


[news.investors.com]

sheesh! Why do you even go there? of course it is a political rant & opinion of some a-hole.
who cares? ...and if one does, this isn't the place to discuss it.