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StonesTod

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alimente

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StonesTod

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More Hot Rocks

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alimente
How often do you listen to the unfinished Waiting On A Friend from the GHS sessions? And how often to the finished version on Tattoo You?

Good point.

it's not a good point at all - the time-lapse here makes it a bad point...

In theory, StonesTod, in theory.

After all, we are discussing something that noone of us has ever heard so far.

i've heard it in my head - Exile on The Main Streets of Love....ouch.....

Show me the back of your hand and I might be able to tell you where all these nightmares come from...

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bigbang

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

was there no point for dylan to release many unfinished songs from the sixties and seventies?

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JMARKO
WHY does ANY artist do this? Do they SERIOUSLY think ANYONE wants to hear this?

Can we safely assume then that you won't be buying a copy?

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tatters
They're presenting them under the title Exile On Main Street, which implicitly implies a 1972 vintage.

...and yet the true fans that this is targeted at know what's going on here. And those that don't will when "Plunder my Soul" is released a full month before the Deluxe Edition. And for those living in a cave I'm sure there will be a sticker on the CD explaining the contents. Some people are waaaaaaaay over thinking this or are just too nitpicky.

here we go again with the "true fan" bullshit. what exactly is a "true fan"?

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baxlap
Raw Power sounded more coherent when Iggy remixed it in 1997.

Oy vey, PLEASE don't use that as an example! Ig's mix of Raw Power is pretty much loathed by the VAST majority of Stooges fans (as observed on the Stooges forum). The Iggy mix is completely in the red, with an incredible amount of distortion washing out everything but the guitars and Iggy's voice.

There is a reason why the original Columbia CD release was so sought after on ePay. Before word of the Bowie-mix remasters, prices could hit around $30. Now, with the Deluxe and Legacy Raw Power editions coming out via Sony, fans will get a TRUE remaster of the Bowie mixes. *note, if you are a HARDCORE Stooges fan, you have sought out the pre-Bowie mixes!

As this relates to the Stones, I am currently downloading a superb vinyl rip of the original Exile for reference. So, if they decide to clean up a few rough edges, I always have the original to go back to (my turntable is in the attic due to the birth of child #2!). I do see a big difference between cleaning up tracks for Tattoo You and Exile. Tattoo You tracks had never been released in "final" form before (i think), but Exile is one of the greatest musical documents of all time, and to play around with that could risk...dare I say...blasphemy?

Either way, I will be buying it.

The first time I'd heard any live recording of Genesis' 1975 Lamb tour, it was from the 1999 Garbriel-era boxed set (discs 3 & 4 are the entire LP live).

I loved it, i thought the vocals were excellently expressive. What I didn't realize was that Peter Gabriel actually re-recorded vocal over-dubs in 1999 in the studio for it. Wolfgang's Vault has the un-dubbed original show version for streaming... I swear, at least 60-70% of the vocals were redone!!! What's funny is though, although this is confirmed, is was not highlly publicized at all. Now I know this is completely different than what the Stones are doing with old unheard tracks, but the 'digging in the dirt' idea isn't too disimialr.

[thepowergoats.com]

It's most definitely over for The Stones...Beatles showed what was the right thing to do 1970...
Jagger could have had his Wings with Marianne just as Paul had with Linda...

>> but Exile is one of the greatest musical documents of all time, and to play around with that <<

they haven't "played around with" any Exile tracks.
the tracks they've worked on have not been released before.

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with sssoul
>> but Exile is one of the greatest musical documents of all time, and to play around with that <<

they haven't "played around with" any Exile tracks. the tracks they've worked on have not been released before.

Please read this entire thread. That is not true, according to Mick & Keef:

Rolling Stone: What sort of bits and pieces did you add?

Mick: I added some percussion. I added some vocals. Keith put guitar on one or two. I added some acoustic guitar and some other things. Charlie [Watts] didn't need to come in. The drums were all perfect. "Pass the Wine," for example, was very, very long, so I edited it down. In the spirit of Exile we added some girl background vocals on "Tumbling Dice" and "Shine a Light." We had some nice background vocals on the originals. But I think in the end it's very much sounding like it was in those days, so to speak.



Keith in same article in Rolling Stone
And you and Mick added new parts to some of them?
There wasn't much to be done and I really didn't want to get in the way of what was there. It was missing a bit of body here and there, and I stroked something on acoustic here and there. But otherwise, I really wanted to leave them pretty much as they were. Mick wanted to sort of fix some vocal things, but otherwise, basically they are as we left them 39 years ago.

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MJG196

Mick: I added some percussion. I added some vocals. .

I am still wondering how Mick's voice will sound on the added vocals .He says it's very much sounding like it was in those days...what do you think ?



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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with sssoul
>> but Exile is one of the greatest musical documents of all time, and to play around with that <<

they haven't "played around with" any Exile tracks. the tracks they've worked on have not been released before.

Please read this entire thread. That is not true, according to Mick & Keef:

Rolling Stone: What sort of bits and pieces did you add?

Mick: I added some percussion. I added some vocals. Keith put guitar on one or two. I added some acoustic guitar and some other things. Charlie [Watts] didn't need to come in. The drums were all perfect. "Pass the Wine," for example, was very, very long, so I edited it down. In the spirit of Exile we added some girl background vocals on "Tumbling Dice" and "Shine a Light." We had some nice background vocals on the originals. But I think in the end it's very much sounding like it was in those days, so to speak.

There already ARE 'girl background vocals' on TD and SAL, so they'd hardly be adding them. He means that theyve added background vocals to the alternate takes - ie Good Time Women, 'in the spirit of Exile' (ie to give it a similar feel). I'm pretty sure he has mistaken Loving Cup for Shine A Light in this case, and the editor of Rolling Stone didnt correct it.

The original 18-track album has received the SAME treatment as the rest of the Universal reissues - ie, its been remastered. Nothing more, nothing less.

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MJG196
Keith in same article in Rolling Stone
And you and Mick added new parts to some of them?
There wasn't much to be done and I really didn't want to get in the way of what was there. It was missing a bit of body here and there, and I stroked something on acoustic here and there. But otherwise, I really wanted to leave them pretty much as they were. Mick wanted to sort of fix some vocal things, but otherwise, basically they are as we left them 39 years ago.

This refers to the outtakes that were 'left' 39 years ago.

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JMARKO
NEW vocals on "Exile" session material? And guitar overdubs?

Total SHITE!

LEAVE IT ALONE!

From the circulating outtakes/alternates there are PLENTY of different vocal performances (Sweet Virginia, Hip Shake, All Down The Line etc.).

And NEWLY WRITTEN LYRICS? PLEASE give me a HUGE break!

This will sound 100% TERRIBLE!

J

You're free not to buy it if you don't wish to do so.

Nobody is painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. These tracks have never been officially released even IF you, and others, might have heard some of them.

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

was there no point for dylan to release many unfinished songs from the sixties and seventies?

The ones he released sound pretty 'finished' to me.

The two acts work in different ways. Dylan tends to record 'live' in the studio with only a few takes (the first 20 years of his career saw him spend only about 90 days in recording studios in total). The Stones grind songs out over long periods, and overdub a lot of tracks around the time theyve shortlisted whats going to make the final cut.

'Exile' is maybe the most unsuitable choice of Stones albums to get the expanded treatment for the simple reason that it was a double LP and instead of having several finished or near-finished songs left over before they whittled it down to a single album's worth, they instead filled up a double LP with a combination of old songs cut during 1969-70 and new material recorded in 1971, probably only finishing the vocals and lyrics on enough songs to make it a double. There were probably very very few unreleased songs which were still being worked on by the time they were overdubbing the vocals in LA.

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

was there no point for dylan to release many unfinished songs from the sixties and seventies?

The ones he released sound pretty 'finished' to me.

think back to the first installment of the bootleg series, gary - it ain't been THAT long...especially second disc - you telling me you'd have preferred an overdubbed version of She's Your Lover Now or I'll Keep it With Mine ('66 version) or the early waltz take of LARS? Hearing these tracks in their unadulterated rawness gives the listener a glimpse into the studio and working process of the artist. What the Stones are doing is denying their fans an opportunity of that....shame on them.

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with sssoul
>> but Exile is one of the greatest musical documents of all time, and to play around with that <<

they haven't "played around with" any Exile tracks. the tracks they've worked on have not been released before.

Please read this entire thread. That is not true, according to Mick & Keef:

Rolling Stone: What sort of bits and pieces did you add?

Mick: I added some percussion. I added some vocals. Keith put guitar on one or two. I added some acoustic guitar and some other things. Charlie [Watts] didn't need to come in. The drums were all perfect. "Pass the Wine," for example, was very, very long, so I edited it down. In the spirit of Exile we added some girl background vocals on "Tumbling Dice" and "Shine a Light." We had some nice background vocals on the originals. But I think in the end it's very much sounding like it was in those days, so to speak.



Keith in same article in Rolling Stone
And you and Mick added new parts to some of them?
There wasn't much to be done and I really didn't want to get in the way of what was there. It was missing a bit of body here and there, and I stroked something on acoustic here and there. But otherwise, I really wanted to leave them pretty much as they were. Mick wanted to sort of fix some vocal things, but otherwise, basically they are as we left them 39 years ago.

They are talking about the bonus tracks here. Mick specifically said the original album was only remastered, not remixed.

No matter how bizarre the circumstances might have been concerning the
"alternate,never before heard tracks",it should be simply first listening and then judging.

Flamin heck.... can't you lot at least wait till your hear the thing before you all get hot under the collar???

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

was there no point for dylan to release many unfinished songs from the sixties and seventies?

The ones he released sound pretty 'finished' to me.

think back to the first installment of the bootleg series, gary - it ain't been THAT long...especially second disc - you telling me you'd have preferred an overdubbed version of She's Your Lover Now or I'll Keep it With Mine ('66 version) or the early waltz take of LARS? Hearing these tracks in their unadulterated rawness gives the listener a glimpse into the studio and working process of the artist. What the Stones are doing is denying their fans an opportunity of that....shame on them.

Those tracks you mention, fair enough. But thats 3 songs out of 58 (well, maybe 5, if you count the cough at the end of 'Suze' and the dog yelping on 'Every Grain of sand') The first two are 98% perfect apart from a fluffed line and the version of LARS is there mainly as a curio to show how the Greatest Single Of All Time started out.

I just dont get the impression the Stones work the same way in the studio. Its an apples and oranges thing. It seems pretty well established that a lot of the lyrics and vocals on Exile werent developed until they were doing the overdubbing. Dylan has released plenty of songs on his studio albums (and on live albums) which contain flubbed lines, missed cues and all. I can think of plenty off the top of my head. Doing something similar on a Bootleg Series release isn't really that big a deal.

To be honest, my main gripe is that they didnt fill the CD with some more songs - be it the 'warts n all' type of thing you suggest, alternate takes of the released songs or even a few of the songs that have already been bootlegged but in inferior quality. If there was a mass-tinkering of the 10/11 songs we're getting, then what you're saying is fair enough, but with one or two exceptions it seems pretty minimal and could be barely noticeable - so I'll suspend my delight/outrage (delete where applicable) until I hear them.

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with sssoul
they haven't "played around with" any Exile tracks. the tracks they've worked on have not been released before.

Gazza: they've added background vocals to the alternate takes ...
The original 18-track album has received the SAME treatment as the rest of the Universal reissues -
ie, it's been remastered. Nothing more, nothing less ...

71Tele: They are talking about the bonus tracks here.
Mick specifically said the original album was only remastered, not remixed.

thanks gentlemen - that's what i meant. i am cognizant that Exile has been remastered (again),
but apparently it's worth emphasizing that the overdubs and edits they're talking about in the interviews
are on the never-before-released tracks, not on the album tracks.

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

was there no point for dylan to release many unfinished songs from the sixties and seventies?

The ones he released sound pretty 'finished' to me.

think back to the first installment of the bootleg series, gary - it ain't been THAT long...especially second disc - you telling me you'd have preferred an overdubbed version of She's Your Lover Now or I'll Keep it With Mine ('66 version) or the early waltz take of LARS? Hearing these tracks in their unadulterated rawness gives the listener a glimpse into the studio and working process of the artist. What the Stones are doing is denying their fans an opportunity of that....shame on them.

Those tracks you mention, fair enough. But thats 3 songs out of 58 (well, maybe 5, if you count the cough at the end of 'Suze' and the dog yelping on 'Every Grain of sand') The first two are 98% perfect apart from a fluffed line and the version of LARS is there mainly as a curio to show how the Greatest Single Of All Time started out.

I just dont get the impression the Stones work the same way in the studio. Its an apples and oranges thing. It seems pretty well established that a lot of the lyrics and vocals on Exile werent developed until they were doing the overdubbing. Dylan has released plenty of songs on his studio albums (and on live albums) which contain flubbed lines, missed cues and all. I can think of plenty off the top of my head. Doing something similar on a Bootleg Series release isn't really that big a deal.

To be honest, my main gripe is that they didnt fill the CD with some more songs - be it the 'warts n all' type of thing you suggest, alternate takes of the released songs or even a few of the songs that have already been bootlegged but in inferior quality. If there was a mass-tinkering of the 10/11 songs we're getting, then what you're saying is fair enough, but with one or two exceptions it seems pretty minimal and could be barely noticeable - so I'll suspend my delight/outrage (delete where applicable) until I hear them.

it's an integrity issue for me. one man's tinkering is another's revamping. and, frankly, i don't trust Mick (for good reason) -he's a perfectionist who should not have been allowed to tinkering. you and i will never really know what got tinkered anyway....

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tatters
They're presenting them under the title Exile On Main Street, which implicitly implies a 1972 vintage.

...and yet the true fans that this is targeted at know what's going on here. And those that don't will when "Plunder my Soul" is released a full month before the Deluxe Edition. And for those living in a cave I'm sure there will be a sticker on the CD explaining the contents. Some people are waaaaaaaay over thinking this or are just too nitpicky.

The sticker's not going to say that some of the tracks feature a 27-year-old Keith and a 66-year old Mick. I'm not AS bothered by instrumental overdubs, but I don't see how you can put the VOICE of a 66-year-old Mick on anything that's being released under the title Exile On Main Street. Better to have just left them without any vocals at all. What's wrong with instrumentals? Nothing, that's what.

we bitch Endlessly about opening up the vaults. here's arguably their best, certainly way up there among the very best...albums ever recorded..hopefully the remastering will be warm, friendly, they know what's there and i'm glad they were inspired, regardless of any reasons, to finish up tweak whatever...
NOT gonna bitch before even hearing it jeezum dang crow people...

dang they are finally doin' some stones stuff and going back to an album the
FANS love and adding considerable new material...i'm effin grateful and excited...

if i don't like it i'l say so but man, catch a clue: THIS IS GREAT NEWS!

U THINk they are total wash up now then don't buy it; don't have it in your life. don't even listen,,,,,

man sometimes i just don't get the giant bug up peeps asses over a nice new wrinkle for this band (in their prime) with some minor fixes to complete otherwise discarded tracks...u don't want to charlie and bill and taylor and keith on unreleased material?????????? art is timeless. i'm on their side; hope it wrks



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-17 21:06 by Beelyboy.

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tatters

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tatters
They're presenting them under the title Exile On Main Street, which implicitly implies a 1972 vintage.

...and yet the true fans that this is targeted at know what's going on here. And those that don't will when "Plunder my Soul" is released a full month before the Deluxe Edition. And for those living in a cave I'm sure there will be a sticker on the CD explaining the contents. Some people are waaaaaaaay over thinking this or are just too nitpicky.

The sticker's not going to say that some of the tracks feature a 27-year-old Keith and a 66-year old Mick. I'm not AS bothered by instrumental overdubs, but I don't see how you can put the VOICE of a 66-year-old Mick on anything that's being released under the title Exile On Main Street. Better to have just left them without any vocals at all. What's wrong with instrumentals? Nothing, that's what.

Fortunately it's not going to be Exile On Main Street but obviously on a second disc. There is zero confusion with that.

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Beelyboy
if i don't like it i'l say so but man, catch a clue: THIS IS GREAT NEWS!

Yeah it sure is - I can't wait for the thing to come out !

But after it's release....there's gonna be some interesting discussions on IORR, I'm sure - at least more interesting than the discussions in which none of us knows anything

edit: ....or actually, after it's been release there'll be some interesting *outbursts* not *discussions*...but what the heck



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-17 21:44 by Erik_Snow.

The Stones can do whatever they fuc*ing want to "Exile". It's theirs, in every sense of the word.

You people have some serious control issues. What makes any of you think that your opinion could possibly matter in this situation? Did you write the music on "Exile"? Did you play an instrument, or two? Did you tour with the band to promote the album?

You are fans. Pure and simple. Your opinion means jack sh*t.

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saulsurvivor
You are fans. Pure and simple. Your opinion means jack sh*t.

Not to me it doesn't...

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JMARKO
WHY does ANY artist do this? Do they SERIOUSLY think ANYONE wants to hear this?

Can we safely assume then that you won't be buying a copy?

Ridiculous and unsupported assumption.


J

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JMARKO
NEW vocals on "Exile" session material? And guitar overdubs?

Total SHITE!

LEAVE IT ALONE!

From the circulating outtakes/alternates there are PLENTY of different vocal performances (Sweet Virginia, Hip Shake, All Down The Line etc.).

And NEWLY WRITTEN LYRICS? PLEASE give me a HUGE break!

This will sound 100% TERRIBLE!

J

See? You've already decided - let's call it "predecided" that it will be terrible, which, to some people, would be a good guess that you are not going to bother with buying it since you've "pre" judged it. If you have "pre" paid for it would you "pre" want your money back?

From the sounds of it, or rather from the reading of your posts, you should not buy it - you're already disappointed - let's call it "predisappointed" - and will be further. Can you cancel a "pre-paid" purchase since it's already paid? Would that be 100% disappointing as well?

Although I do look forward - very anxiously - to more posts like this one where you are 100% dissatisfied with what you paid for!

Incredible ! We have been asking for them to look in the vaults for years.......the 1st time they do AND take the time to finish tracks off, they get slated for it before we have heard a note !

I'm gonna' start on the next tour before it starts:

Oh no not all these warhorses ! 17 songs , 90 minute sets, £300 tickets . If I hear YGMR one more time.................................... LOL !

sc uk