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alimente
How often do you listen to the unfinished Waiting On A Friend from the GHS sessions? And how often to the finished version on Tattoo You?

Good point.

Ok..When people say that I dont undrrstand the thought process..Just let me say that the Stones have been doing this for years. Parts of Black N Blue along with Tatoo You were all recorded earlier and then overdubbed later..and in the case of Tatoo You Much Later. I dont like the overdub idea either but its nothing new.


Charlie

it's nothing new, but it's different in this case. they are releasing these exile outtakes as historical documents. sure, artists find old songs in the can all the time and then overdub or tweak them in order to make them presentable on a new album. but we are getting a collection of songs that are being presented as outtakes. we all know that. when "tattoo you" came out, it wasn't called "some new songs plus old bits and pieces that we've strung together to make new songs for you". they released it as a new album with the idea to the general public being that these are "new" songs. sure, these "new" exile songs might sound good, they might not, but morally, adding new sounds to old recordings that you are presenting as "outtakes" just doesn't sit right with me.

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soulsurvivor1
Ok..When people say that I dont undrrstand the thought process..Just let me say that the Stones have been doing this for years. Parts of Black N Blue along with Tatoo You were all recorded earlier and then overdubbed later..and in the case of Tatoo You Much Later. I dont like the overdub idea either but its nothing new.


Charlie

Absolutely right...the Stones have always taken older recordings left unfinished and polished them up for inclusion in subsequent releases. This, of course, is taking that process to the extreme, I suppose, but let's not forget it's THEIR music and they can do what they want with it (or not, which has been the case for decades).
I'm curious to learn if these tracks are essentially the same as those found on bootlegs thru the years or are they really different takes/recordings.

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bernardanderson
it's nothing new, but it's different in this case. they are releasing these exile outtakes as historical documents. sure, artists find old songs in the can all the time and then overdub or tweak them in order to make them presentable on a new album. but we are getting a collection of songs that are being presented as outtakes. we all know that. when "tattoo you" came out, it wasn't called "some new songs plus old bits and pieces that we've strung together to make new songs for you". they released it as a new album with the idea to the general public being that these are "new" songs. sure, these "new" exile songs might sound good, they might not, but morally, adding new sounds to old recordings that you are presenting as "outtakes" just doesn't sit right with me.

Are they really presenting them as "outtakes"? Or is it just our projection because we cant think outside this "official release-outtake" scenario we grew up with in all these official release vs. bootleg outtake years?

So far I am only able to detect that they present the new material as a "bonus disc".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-14 18:48 by alimente.

I have dark visions of hearing something similar to what the Macca/Harrison/Starr did to Lennon's demo's of 'Free As A Bird' and 'Real Love',
but I don't see how the new Exile could possibly be any worse than that. Or could it? With Don Was at the helm, shit happens...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Too make money. Simple as that

But who cares?? The original is the best. No one can take that away from us.

I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

Blimey, do some people get in a tizz about nothing. So bloomin what? It aint that big a deal???

If they're merely adding a few finishing touches here and there, I'm not bothered, yet. They've done this before on Tattoo You with positive results. So I'll withhold judgment until I've heard the thing. One would hope they would have the good sense to overdub only in a way that at least sounds authentic and doesn't trample on the old recordings. I'm sure they realize that, to a lot of people, they're handling sacred texts.

Others have done the same thing with varied results. Quadrophenia sounded better (i.e., a lot less muddy) when it was remixed for the 1996 remasters. Raw Power sounded more coherent when Iggy remixed it in 1997.

On the other hand, some people have gone back and flat out tried to rewrite history: Alan Douglas did all those heinous overdubs on Hendrix's Crash Landing. Robert Fripp wiped Gordon Haskell's vocals and replaced them with newly recorded ones from Adrian Belew on the first King Crimson box set. Peter Gabriel re-recorded some of his vocals twenty years later on the live version of The Lamb Lies down on Broadway on the first Genesis archives box. Frank Zappa made wholesale changes on some of his albums, when they were first released on CD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-14 19:54 by baxlap.

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bernardanderson
i always laugh when people are upset by messages that contain many capital letters. they're just caps! geez! aren't there worse things in this world to get worked up about?

Couldn't agree MORE.

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dcba
I can understand George Lucas inserting digital images in the 1st Star Wars

He just put things in that he had to leave out because the technology wasn't there at the time to do it. That's not what this is about. While I DID have a slight cringe factor with new recordings being done, the idea that they felt motivated enough to actually finish the tracks that they did mess with shows that there was some interest. Which says a lot actually. Besides, who really cares? They haven't messed with any original recordings from any albums yet alone Exile.

And no one - NO ONE, not one, not one person, has heard any of it yet. For all we know, the mixing of the touched up tracks may have been been done sonically the same as what the album and the other untouched finished tracks sound like. You might not even be able to tell.

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skipstone

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dcba
I can understand George Lucas inserting digital images in the 1st Star Wars

He just put things in that he had to leave out because the technology wasn't there at the time to do it. That's not what this is about. While I DID have a slight cringe factor with new recordings being done, the idea that they felt motivated enough to actually finish the tracks that they did mess with shows that there was some interest. Which says a lot actually. Besides, who really cares? They haven't messed with any original recordings from any albums yet alone Exile.

And no one - NO ONE, not one, not one person, has heard any of it yet. For all we know, the mixing of the touched up tracks may have been been done sonically the same as what the album and the other untouched finished tracks sound like. You might not even be able to tell.

Exactly. And that is why I wish Jagger hadn't even said anything. I mean - one of these 'edits' already has turned out to be to decide to end a long jam at an opportune moment. Big deal.
This whole thing about shocked and outraged, or on the other hand giving it 5 stars is premature.

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bernardanderson
it's nothing new, but it's different in this case. they are releasing these exile outtakes as historical documents. sure, artists find old songs in the can all the time and then overdub or tweak them in order to make them presentable on a new album. but we are getting a collection of songs that are being presented as outtakes. we all know that. when "tattoo you" came out, it wasn't called "some new songs plus old bits and pieces that we've strung together to make new songs for you". they released it as a new album with the idea to the general public being that these are "new" songs. sure, these "new" exile songs might sound good, they might not, but morally, adding new sounds to old recordings that you are presenting as "outtakes" just doesn't sit right with me.

Morally? What the fukc are you, a stupid priest? MORALLY? HA HA HA HA! The Rolling Stones? What a joke. I don't think I've ever seen The Rolling Stones and "morally" used in the same whatever, subject, paragraph.

You just said it's not different but then flip flopped. You like Tattoo You right? But because you know how they're working on this, well then, by your rules, you have just discounted your liking of and/or how good Tattoo You is because it's not a real album, it's just finished outtakes. You know that now that you know that. And since you know that, Tattoo You wasn't really a "new album" now was it. 'it wasn't called "some new songs plus old bits and pieces that we've strung together to make new songs for you".' That is correct - because they didn't say it was. Nobody got mad over the years upon finding that out did they? Felt ripped off?

Which means you had better write off Emotional Rescue since almost half of that is finished outtakes from Some Girls. Or even 5 songs on Exile are just finished outtakes from Sticky Fingers. Even Mick has stated that Exile wasn't all what would be called a "new album".

But wait. Oh that's right.

They aren't calling this a new album.

So what's all the point of the bitching about? It's not another Tattoo You,it's finished leftovers that are being called just that. Unlike Tattoo You, they aren't hiding anything this time. A lot of people here need some cheese - a lot of cheese. And a giant bowl of grapes.

You DO have the choice to NOT BUY IT, just get the goddamn regular ol' reissue if you really need to. I don't need to but I am going to get the one with the extra tracks. It's not like I'm buying a new car for $34,000 and then getting it home and realising that it's made out of cardboard.

skipstone, not everything that has to do with morals is based on religion.

and you're missing my point. the only issue i have with this is how they present it, that's all. if they are going to label the 2nd disc as a collection of outtakes then i have a problem with them adding new sounds to old recordings. but if they wanted to released it as a new album altogether, separate from EOMS, then fine, go ahead and add new sounds to the final product. but don't bill the damn thing as "outtakes" or "unreleased songs from the Exile sessions". that's all i'm concerned about. i'll still buy it.

This is all turning into old ladies yapping over their coffee. At some point this was about a rock'n roll band; and distorted audience bootleg albums. Take the freakin Stonesjams home and put them in the player; or download them from a friend...
Anything else happening until April 16?

Can't we argue about this when we've heard it?


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

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Palace Revolution 2000
This is all turning into old ladies yapping over their coffee.

you're right, Palace Revolution 2000. let's get back to talking about important issues! like, the stones music on american idol.

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skipstone
And no one - NO ONE, not one, not one person, has heard any of it yet.

Mick, Keith and Don has. I'm pretty sure they have.

JumpingKentFlash

At this moment in time, there is still a possibility that the new Exile material will sound good. There is, of course, also a possibility that it will sound bad.

However, none of these self-proclaimed keepers of the holy grail here can convince me that it is simply impossible that the material will sound good just because there are some new overdubs.

I can't give now any source, but remember reading a magazine with an interview with Jagger in 1991 (in a German magazine), after the release of Flashpoint.
Jagger said Highwire was dating back to the IORR album's days.
The music (or the music, partly) was made then. He wrote the lyrics in 1991.

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More Hot Rocks

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alimente
How often do you listen to the unfinished Waiting On A Friend from the GHS sessions? And how often to the finished version on Tattoo You?

Good point.

it's not a good point at all - the time-lapse here makes it a bad point...

it is a moral outrage, of course. the stones will surely burn in hell for all eternity for this affront...but, that's rock'n'roll, so....

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StonesTod

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alimente
How often do you listen to the unfinished Waiting On A Friend from the GHS sessions? And how often to the finished version on Tattoo You?

Good point.

it's not a good point at all - the time-lapse here makes it a bad point...

In theory, StonesTod, in theory.

After all, we are discussing something that noone of us has ever heard so far.

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alimente

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StonesTod

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More Hot Rocks

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alimente
How often do you listen to the unfinished Waiting On A Friend from the GHS sessions? And how often to the finished version on Tattoo You?

Good point.

it's not a good point at all - the time-lapse here makes it a bad point...

In theory, StonesTod, in theory.

After all, we are discussing something that noone of us has ever heard so far.

i've heard it in my head - Exile on The Main Streets of Love....ouch.....

What I read was Mick stated that Highwire was a leftover from the Steel Wheels sessions that didn't take off. For some reason, it did after the tour.

I think we need to wait and see. Could be the Stones release of the decade. I was thinking the other day, ten new songs, in the old days that was a whole album. I realize they are not new per se, but then again to see what they did with a few of the songs in 2010 may be mind blowing... or not. But boy, talk about suspense! I'd rather have this than 10 brand new songs written in 2010, to be honest. That,I'm afraid, would be mediocrity waiting to happen.

Oh, and I have three words for all y'all: Jamming with Edward. Is that what you want? A bunch of aimless jamming and half realized songs? Nothing against that particular record, but I would not be looking forward to another product like that, which this could have turned out to be if they left everything alone.

*********************************
And the queen is bravely shouting,
"What the hell is going on?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-15 02:27 by bigbang.

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Lorenz
I like that they decided to finish the songs would have been pointless to officially release half-finished songs

amen.

*********************************
And the queen is bravely shouting,
"What the hell is going on?"

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-15 02:49 by tatters.

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alimente

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bernardanderson
it's nothing new, but it's different in this case. they are releasing these exile outtakes as historical documents. sure, artists find old songs in the can all the time and then overdub or tweak them in order to make them presentable on a new album. but we are getting a collection of songs that are being presented as outtakes. we all know that. when "tattoo you" came out, it wasn't called "some new songs plus old bits and pieces that we've strung together to make new songs for you". they released it as a new album with the idea to the general public being that these are "new" songs. sure, these "new" exile songs might sound good, they might not, but morally, adding new sounds to old recordings that you are presenting as "outtakes" just doesn't sit right with me.

Are they really presenting them as "outtakes"? Or is it just our projection because we cant think outside this "official release-outtake" scenario we grew up with in all these official release vs. bootleg outtake years?

So far I am only able to detect that they present the new material as a "bonus disc".

They're presenting them under the title Exile On Main Street, which implicitly implies a 1972 vintage.