Tell Me :
Talk
Many of the greatest rock albums of all time are not at all familiar to the general public. In some instances, this includes masterpieces of famous artists which are not even familiar to many FANS of those artists. Neil Young's Tonight's The Night, for example, or John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-01 06:15 by tatters.
Let's get back to the bottom line. Our personal opinions about this or that artist being under/overrated are not relevant re this issue. The bottom line is: don't mix up quality with quantity. The quantity/numbers/popularity of a work of art say little or nothing about its quality.
Just one or two last examples.
How many people did read Homer's Ilias or Odyssey? I guess not so many, even amongst us, very well educated IORRians. But both works are generally and indisputably considered as literary masterpieces. But any Stephen King thriller has been sold millions and millions times more than both Homer's works together. But King's books don't belong to the generally accepted limited number of literary masterpieces.
The same is true as for performing/interpreting musicians, like instumentalists. If not, André Rieu, my dear fellow countryman, would be considered as the most brilliant violinist of all times. But he's not considered like that and he will agree he isn't.
never did that!!! i am the last one who does!
all your examples are true. and andré rieu makes me want to vomit.
but it doesn´t prove anything regarding the stones and exile.
it doesn´t prove that everything nobody knows must be genius, so it doesn´t prove exile is genius just because noone knows it.
you should start to find some real arguments on your side.
Okay, if quantity defines quality Mc Donald's is the best restaurant in the world, because most people go to it and it's incredibly popular everywhere.
Looking for the best cooks in the world? Check Mc Donald's
. Looking for the best Stones' album? Check the salesmumbers! Sometimes life seems so easy
.
you again completely turn around my words once again.
and refuse to recognice that i said different minimum 3 times.
may make you feel like you found an argument why exile is genius, but you haven´t actually said anything about exile yet.
I agree. It's not just to say: Exile is a masterpiece just because it's a relatively unknown Stonesalbum. So the question is: what makes a piece of art (in our case a Stonesalbum) a true masterpiece? Not its salesnumbers, not its popularity, not its 'obscurity'. But what oh what does?? Its quality does. But how can we define its quality? We can't measure it. There are no objective criterions. The only factor I can think of is what the people in the 'business', i.e. other artists, composers, musicians, Stones'scholars', Stones'experts' (amongst whom we IORRians) do think. That's not proof of indisputable quality but the strongest indication we can get (unless someone else knows another, better one or even more ones).
As far as I know the most people I mentioned up here (people in the 'business' as I described them) think that Exile is the best Stonesalbum so far. Imho we can't come closer than that. Maybe someone more clever than I can.
do you have the link to this on amazon?....could ot find it.....thanking you
....both Miss You and Start Me Up are landmark tunes..i.e...defining tune summer of '78 and certainly a big part of their best selling record ever.....while Start Me Up is played across America and Europe every night in every sports areana in every sports league in various and some times several points during a match. Perhaps this tortures you...in that case..I apologize.
No it doesn't torture me at all, I don't visit those arenas, so they may play it as much as they like. But you didn't get my point about quantity and quality at all. I would say: Start me up and Miss you are the Mc Donald's of the Stones' songs. Very popular, but no healthy and tasty food. Btw: can't imagine that Start me up starts someone up. It slows me down, because it's boring and the contrary of exciting. Awful pace. Compare it to JJF or SFM, for example. What a difference!
HA HA! I agree. It's amazing so many North American sporting venues play this song every year. What's funny about music being played at professional games is it's just terrible. I'd like to shoot whoever thought of it. It's distracting and annoying. Nobody can enjoy it. No one is there to hear 30 seconds of some stupid song.
don´t think most people in the "business" think so.
there are easily as many and more who would say sticky is their best.
i would say i only ask people from the "business" about that and i hardly remember exile ever being mentioned as best or even close to best.
the other big three are mentioned as best or favourite more often.
I wasn't talking about "the best" but about a masterpiece.
Btw: during that interview on the radiotapes in 2001 Taylor mentions both SF and EOMS when asked about his favourite Stonesalbums. He says something like: "EOMS has become some sort of a classic over the years". Just for info, not to 'proof' anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-01 18:38 by kleermaker.
If you don't like how much the set costs, then buy the tracks on iTunes. It will cost pretty much to fabricate, hence the high price. You're making it sound they are a money machine only.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 03:14
Quote
stoneswashed77
what you say might be true, but you can´t use the reverse logic. meaning if something is unknown it must be genius. that´s too easy again.
Of course I don't think that. It isn't relevant either.
think about that also:
say there is a world famous band who has 20 really great songs, that many people know and love. and that this band is considered by everyone also by people who know music as one of the best bands ever.
wouldn´t you expect at least one of those 20 great songs to be on their by fans selfdeclared best record.
wouldn´t you expect the world to have taken knowledge of that selfdeclared masterpiece too?? especially since they are famous and everyone listens also people who are educated in music.
I think you make a mistake by concluding that when an almost 50 years old r & r/blues/popmusic band is world famous, also many of their songs are world famous. It's exactly as concerning Mozart and Mozart's music: he's world famous but how many of his more than 600 works are? How many of his masterpieces are world famous, i.e. amongst millions and millions of people? Rather few indeed. So that says nothing at all about their quality. Just ask some people on the street to name all the songs of the Rolling Stones they know. Well, they won't name many more than Angie and Satisfaction, I predict.
mozart is a bad example though. he is overrated, but i think you also stated that somehow.
Mozart is a very good example, because he is considered as one of the greatest if not the greatest composer of all times. Especially amongst the 'famous' people in classical music and amongst almost all composers since Haydn until nowadays as well. So I don't understand that you say he's overrated and I certainly didn't state that.
i don´t think the stones are overrated as a rock band. and i don´t think their greatest songs, satisfaction, jjf, gimme shelter, rambler, ycagwyw, sympathy, brown sugar, wild horses, angie, it´s only rock´n roll, miss you, beast of burden start me up, and many more, are overrated.
In my very humble opinion especially it's only rock 'n roll, miss you and start me up are vastly overrated, to use an understatement.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: March 1, 2010 04:13
i never said all of their songs are famous i would say there are max. 15-20 that the average people know when you play them to them. they could probably not even name one if you ask them. but those are the songs who made them famous.
i don´t agree on mozart.
so:
satisfaction, jjf, gimme shelter, rambler, ycagwyw, sympathy, brown sugar, wild horses, angie, it´s only rock´n roll, miss you, beast of burden, start me up, are overrated.
and:
shake your hips, casino boogie, sweet black angel, torn and frayed, turd on the run, loving cup is the greatest shit ever.
okay cool, good to know.
i don´t agree on mozart.
so:
satisfaction, jjf, gimme shelter, rambler, ycagwyw, sympathy, brown sugar, wild horses, angie, it´s only rock´n roll, miss you, beast of burden, start me up, are overrated.
and:
shake your hips, casino boogie, sweet black angel, torn and frayed, turd on the run, loving cup is the greatest shit ever.
okay cool, good to know.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: March 1, 2010 06:04
Quote
stoneswashed77
say there is a world famous band who has 20 really great songs, that many people know and love. and that this band is considered by everyone also by people who know music as one of the best bands ever.
wouldn´t you expect at least one of those 20 great songs to be on their by fans selfdeclared best record.
wouldn´t you expect the world to have taken knowledge of that selfdeclared masterpiece too?? especially since they are famous and everyone listens also people who are educated in music.
Many of the greatest rock albums of all time are not at all familiar to the general public. In some instances, this includes masterpieces of famous artists which are not even familiar to many FANS of those artists. Neil Young's Tonight's The Night, for example, or John Lennon's Plastic Ono Band.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-01 06:15 by tatters.
Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
tornandfrayed72
()
Date: March 1, 2010 00:14
I'm a little confused. The Exile reissues have just been posted on BestBuy.com (and granted, prices can vary from place to place). Do we have any idea why the Super Deluxe edition of Exile is $90 more than the Deluxe Edition? I get that this is where the band and the record company will make their money (off of the super fans who are the only real market for such an item). But what does the extra $90 get you? Vinyl of the album, a 30 minute documentary and a 50 page book? Is that really it? $90 more should get you more than that. Look at other bands who have issued Super Deluxe editions of classic albums. Something seems to be amiss.
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: March 1, 2010 00:15
DID YOU NOT SEE [www.iorr.org]??????????????
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
tornandfrayed72
()
Date: March 1, 2010 00:23
Yea I saw. And don't get me wrong, I'm way excited about this release as Exile is probably my favorite album (depends on the mood). But the economics of this thing still baffle me. I mean $90 more? For just a 30 minute DVD, the vinyl and a 50 page book?
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
tatters
()
Date: March 1, 2010 00:57
I think for the extra $90 you should at least get a genuine relic. Maybe the butt of an actual cigarette smoked by an actual Rolling Stone during the actual sessions. That would be COOL.
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: March 1, 2010 01:06
It was my understanding that BV didn't want any other EXILE threads, hence the combining of them all to that one. I'd be careful to circumvent such a request.
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
studiorambo
()
Date: March 1, 2010 01:07
Keith could probably handle that.
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: March 1, 2010 01:57
The reissue also contains a list of all threads on iorr on the Exile reissue.
Re: Super Deluxe Edition Exile Contains???
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: March 1, 2010 02:51
There's going to be a limited edition run of a 3 disc Exile - disc 3 is ALL the existing What If threads plus any future ones.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 14:45
Quote
stoneswashed77
i never said all of their songs are famous i would say there are max. 15-20 that the average people know when you play them to them. they could probably not even name one if you ask them. but those are the songs who made them famous.
i don´t agree on mozart.
so:
satisfaction, jjf, gimme shelter, rambler, ycagwyw, sympathy, brown sugar, wild horses, angie, it´s only rock´n roll, miss you, beast of burden, start me up, are overrated.
and:
shake your hips, casino boogie, sweet black angel, torn and frayed, turd on the run, loving cup is the greatest shit ever.
okay cool, good to know.
Let's get back to the bottom line. Our personal opinions about this or that artist being under/overrated are not relevant re this issue. The bottom line is: don't mix up quality with quantity. The quantity/numbers/popularity of a work of art say little or nothing about its quality.
Just one or two last examples.
How many people did read Homer's Ilias or Odyssey? I guess not so many, even amongst us, very well educated IORRians. But both works are generally and indisputably considered as literary masterpieces. But any Stephen King thriller has been sold millions and millions times more than both Homer's works together. But King's books don't belong to the generally accepted limited number of literary masterpieces.
The same is true as for performing/interpreting musicians, like instumentalists. If not, André Rieu, my dear fellow countryman, would be considered as the most brilliant violinist of all times. But he's not considered like that and he will agree he isn't.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
FreeBird
()
Date: March 1, 2010 14:52
André Riool seems like the McDonald's of classical music to me.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: March 1, 2010 15:28
Quote
kleermaker
don't mix up quality with quantity.
never did that!!! i am the last one who does!
all your examples are true. and andré rieu makes me want to vomit.
but it doesn´t prove anything regarding the stones and exile.
it doesn´t prove that everything nobody knows must be genius, so it doesn´t prove exile is genius just because noone knows it.
you should start to find some real arguments on your side.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 15:29
Quote
FreeBird
André Riool seems like the McDonald's of classical music to me.
Okay, if quantity defines quality Mc Donald's is the best restaurant in the world, because most people go to it and it's incredibly popular everywhere.
Looking for the best cooks in the world? Check Mc Donald's
. Looking for the best Stones' album? Check the salesmumbers! Sometimes life seems so easy.Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: March 1, 2010 15:37
Quote
kleermakerQuote
FreeBird
André Riool seems like the McDonald's of classical music to me.
Okay, if quantity defines quality Mc Donald's is the best restaurant in the world, because most people go to it and it's incredibly popular everywhere.
Looking for the best cooks in the world? Check Mc Donald's
you again completely turn around my words once again.
and refuse to recognice that i said different minimum 3 times.
may make you feel like you found an argument why exile is genius, but you haven´t actually said anything about exile yet.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 15:51
Quote
stoneswashed77Quote
kleermaker
don't mix up quality with quantity.
never did that!!! i am the last one who does!
all your examples are true. and andré rieu makes me want to vomit.
but it doesn´t prove anything regarding the stones and exile.
it doesn´t prove that everything nobody knows must be genius, so it doesn´t prove exile is genius just because noone knows it.
you should start to find some real arguments on your side.
I agree. It's not just to say: Exile is a masterpiece just because it's a relatively unknown Stonesalbum. So the question is: what makes a piece of art (in our case a Stonesalbum) a true masterpiece? Not its salesnumbers, not its popularity, not its 'obscurity'. But what oh what does?? Its quality does. But how can we define its quality? We can't measure it. There are no objective criterions. The only factor I can think of is what the people in the 'business', i.e. other artists, composers, musicians, Stones'scholars', Stones'experts' (amongst whom we IORRians) do think. That's not proof of indisputable quality but the strongest indication we can get (unless someone else knows another, better one or even more ones).
As far as I know the most people I mentioned up here (people in the 'business' as I described them) think that Exile is the best Stonesalbum so far. Imho we can't come closer than that. Maybe someone more clever than I can.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
rlngstns
()
Date: March 1, 2010 15:58
Quote
ajc68Quote
tatters
The 2-CD Deluxe with ten previously unreleased tracks from the peak of their career is exciting news. Having to pay an additional $120 in order to get a DVD with only a few minutes of concert footage from the peak of their career is a legitimate cause for complaining. The Deluxe is a good value. The Super Deluxe is not.
You should be able to get the Super Deluxe edition for under $100 (US). It opened at $109.98 on Amazon, and those prices always drop before release. You also get the vinyl and collectors book with that set. If you don't want the Vinyl, sell it on eBay. Or buy the Deluxe Edition and record the documentary off TV.
EDIT: The Super Deluxe edition just dropped to $98.99 (US) on Amazon.
do you have the link to this on amazon?....could ot find it.....thanking you
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: March 1, 2010 16:06
i was looking at play.com and, correct me if i'm wrong, we are not going to get the unreleased stuff on vinyl anyway...
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
Rip This
()
Date: March 1, 2010 16:13
[/quote]Quote
kleermaker
In my very humble opinion especially it's only rock 'n roll, miss you and start me up are vastly overrated, to use an understatement.
....both Miss You and Start Me Up are landmark tunes..i.e...defining tune summer of '78 and certainly a big part of their best selling record ever.....while Start Me Up is played across America and Europe every night in every sports areana in every sports league in various and some times several points during a match. Perhaps this tortures you...in that case..I apologize.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:32
Certainly the case for the quality of Exile is not lost on me. And I am partially playing devil's advocate. I guess part of the issue with calling something "the best" is that it's only - if you were to take a poll with the same question, whatever the results would be only represent the people polled. That does not count for 'all of everyone' like the stupid fukcing newspapers announce in the United States.
That's just an example, of course.
Rolling Stone has it in their Top Whatever for best albums ever and who the fukc knows who else. What gets me is that a lot of people have cited Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Some Girls and Tattoo You MORE than Exile over the years as 'great albums'. Exile has some great songs on it, yes. But as an album, it just doesn't flow like Bleed, Fingers or Tattoo. I think that's the crux of it. It's also just too long. But that's the beauty of it as well. I am not saying it's not a great album. I just don't think it's their "best" in terms of being an ALBUM. Great, yes, a great collection of songs, a great album. But not best, not their best album.
That's just an example, of course.
Rolling Stone has it in their Top Whatever for best albums ever and who the fukc knows who else. What gets me is that a lot of people have cited Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Some Girls and Tattoo You MORE than Exile over the years as 'great albums'. Exile has some great songs on it, yes. But as an album, it just doesn't flow like Bleed, Fingers or Tattoo. I think that's the crux of it. It's also just too long. But that's the beauty of it as well. I am not saying it's not a great album. I just don't think it's their "best" in terms of being an ALBUM. Great, yes, a great collection of songs, a great album. But not best, not their best album.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:39
good ole jagger/cohl out to bleed us out of $90 us for a docu dvd and vinyl and the original tracks and the bonus 10 tracks .
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:45
Quote
Rip This
....both Miss You and Start Me Up are landmark tunes..i.e...defining tune summer of '78 and certainly a big part of their best selling record ever.....while Start Me Up is played across America and Europe every night in every sports areana in every sports league in various and some times several points during a match. Perhaps this tortures you...in that case..I apologize.
No it doesn't torture me at all, I don't visit those arenas, so they may play it as much as they like. But you didn't get my point about quantity and quality at all. I would say: Start me up and Miss you are the Mc Donald's of the Stones' songs. Very popular, but no healthy and tasty food. Btw: can't imagine that Start me up starts someone up. It slows me down, because it's boring and the contrary of exciting. Awful pace. Compare it to JJF or SFM, for example. What a difference!
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:47
Quote
kleermaker
Can't imagine that Start me up starts someone up. It slows me down, because it's boring and the contrary of exciting. Awful pace. Compare it to JJF or SFM, for example. What a difference!
HA HA! I agree. It's amazing so many North American sporting venues play this song every year. What's funny about music being played at professional games is it's just terrible. I'd like to shoot whoever thought of it. It's distracting and annoying. Nobody can enjoy it. No one is there to hear 30 seconds of some stupid song.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:58
If the opening riff of SMU and the first vocal line by Jagger doesn´t start you up it´s time to find out what does 
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: March 1, 2010 17:58
start me up was the first song played yesterday at the olympics hockey final. beatles were only second.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
stoneswashed77
()
Date: March 1, 2010 18:08
Quote
kleermaker
The only factor I can think of is what the people in the 'business', i.e. other artists, composers, musicians, Stones'scholars', Stones'experts' (amongst whom we IORRians) do think.
As far as I know the most people I mentioned up here (people in the 'business' as I described them) think that Exile is the best Stonesalbum so far.
don´t think most people in the "business" think so.
there are easily as many and more who would say sticky is their best.
i would say i only ask people from the "business" about that and i hardly remember exile ever being mentioned as best or even close to best.
the other big three are mentioned as best or favourite more often.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: March 1, 2010 18:35
Quote
stoneswashed77Quote
kleermaker
The only factor I can think of is what the people in the 'business', i.e. other artists, composers, musicians, Stones'scholars', Stones'experts' (amongst whom we IORRians) do think.
As far as I know the most people I mentioned up here (people in the 'business' as I described them) think that Exile is the best Stonesalbum so far.
don´t think most people in the "business" think so.
there are easily as many and more who would say sticky is their best.
i would say i only ask people from the "business" about that and i hardly remember exile ever being mentioned as best or even close to best.
the other big three are mentioned as best or favourite more often.
I wasn't talking about "the best" but about a masterpiece.
Btw: during that interview on the radiotapes in 2001 Taylor mentions both SF and EOMS when asked about his favourite Stonesalbums. He says something like: "EOMS has become some sort of a classic over the years". Just for info, not to 'proof' anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-03-01 18:38 by kleermaker.
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: March 1, 2010 18:46
I also remember Mick ones mentioned that Beggars Banquet was his fav. Stones album
__________________________
__________________________
Re: EXILE press release says ten new tracks
Posted by:
Blueranger
()
Date: March 1, 2010 18:58
'Quote
The Greek
good ole jagger/cohl out to bleed us out of $90 us for a docu dvd and vinyl and the original tracks and the bonus 10 tracks .
If you don't like how much the set costs, then buy the tracks on iTunes. It will cost pretty much to fabricate, hence the high price. You're making it sound they are a money machine only.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Guests:
1781
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10