Just wondering apart from the slide on No Expectations, what contribution of note BRian made to this album. He played some melatron on Satanic majesties and was clearly still in creative mode at that time. Did it really all go pear shaped so soon after?
Was he really that sparked out as shown in the Sympathy for the devil film for the entire BB sessions?

I think he also played sitar on 'Street Fighting Man'.

I came up with this based on what people from the band and Jimmy Miller etc have said, what is heard on the record and also by comparing how people play.

I'm personally convinced Brian plays harmonica on PW(the main harmonica heard throughout the song, with Mick overdubbed in at the end adding that moaning part, Brian's part continues underneath) and PS(in the background).

Dave Mason supposedly plays guitar on Dear Doctor, only thing is, there's only one guitar, so perhaps he's actually playing harmonica. The style of harmonica playing on that track is similar to Dave's playing on the 1968 Traffic album.

Dave Mason has incorrectly been credited with playing a real mandolin for decades, but it's a mellotron, no doubt about it. Keith says that Nicky Hopkins suggested the 'fiddle part', but perhaps he means the 'mandolin' part. Dave was producing Family at Olympic Studios at this time, Rick Gretch is on fiddle so perhaps Dave tagged along and sat in on mellotron.

It seems that Brian was more active during the early stages of Beggars Banquet, but really started missing sessions following his bust in May 68.

Anyway, here's my open to debate crediting, I;m not saying this is fact, just what is most likley...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-01 12:50 by His Majesty.

So the myth that Dave Mason plays lead on Sympathy is wrong?

The lead on Devil is absolutely Keith's style. Mason played in a similar style, but not so "dirty" like Keith. He was with Traffic in Olympic too at this time.

What constantly amazes me is the amount of post '67 tracks that Bill Wyman didn't play bass on.

Brian plays also percussion on midnight rambler on let it bleed !

He played the "unplugged" parts, didn't he? It seems they just let him strum along when he felt like it, but didn't even record his contributions or at least ruled them out in the mixing process. Clearly understandable if you look at the state he was in most of the time.

>> He played the "unplugged" parts, didn't he? <<

a] the mellotron isn't "unplugged", and b] his contributions are quite audible on a lot of tracks on Beggars.
i wonder where this idea started that Brian is totally MIA on Beggars - is it the One + One footage?

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with sssoul

i wonder where this idea started that Brian is totally MIA on Beggars - is it the One + One footage?

Almost certainly, & possibly R&R Circus too (with only 'No Expectations' receiving any real contribution from him).

I wonder what Brian was like at the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert?

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Sleepy City

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with sssoul

i wonder where this idea started that Brian is totally MIA on Beggars - is it the One + One footage?

Almost certainly, & possibly R&R Circus too (with only 'No Expectations' receiving any real contribution from him).

I wonder what Brian was like at the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert?

Was the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert ever filmed?

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steffiestones


Was the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert ever filmed?

Yes, though it wasn't networked everywhere, & was the last of the annual NME concerts. At least part of their two-song appearance ('Jumping Jack Flash' & 'Satisfaction') was shown on a TV programme called 'Time For Blackburn' (hosted by Tony Blackburn) in the Southern TV region.

It was Brian's last concert appearance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-01 14:10 by Sleepy City.

not on any boot?

I think poor quality audios circulate (though I don't have it), but it's certainly not circulating on video / DVD.

pic from the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert

>> It was Brian's last concert appearance <<

pardon the digression but: i know some people feel the Rock & Roll Circus "doesn't count" as a concert,
but i never understand why not. the audience was "too small"? the fact that there were re-takes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-01 14:17 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul
>> He played the "unplugged" parts, didn't he? <<

a] the mellotron isn't "unplugged", and b] his contributions are quite audible on a lot of tracks on Beggars.
i wonder where this idea started that Brian is totally MIA on Beggars - is it the One + One footage?

Hey with sssoul, interesting to hear that (point b).
I don't exactly know where I got my impression from. But One plus One maybe one source, contributing here.

i always heard that r&r circus was Brian's last appearance with the stones, not last concert!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-01 14:20 by steffiestones.

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with sssoul
>> It was Brian's last concert appearance <<

pardon the digression but: i know some people feel the Rock & Roll Circus "doesn't count" as a concert,
but i never understand why not. the audience was "too small"? the fact that there were re-takes?

It was a TV show.

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steffiestones
pic from the 1968 NME Poll Winners Concert

Wow, thanks! Brian at least looks more into it here than he does on One Plus One & R&R Circus.

>> interesting to hear that (point b) <<

Greenblues, see His Majesty's post above for some highly educated insight into where Brian is audible.
it's true that Beggars isn't saturated with Brian's touches, but it does surprise me
that some people have the impression that he's not there at all outside of No Expectations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-01 14:35 by with sssoul.

>> It was a TV show. <<

mercy: i know it was a TV show (or anyway was intended for TV broadcast).
the music was still performed in front of an audience.
the NME appearances were aired on TV too, but you call those concerts.

I think the delayed release of Beggars Banquet and the timing of the first sessions for what would become Let It Bleed have blurred things.

Also, Brian dying 6 or 7 months after BB was released and the resulting comments about him not showing up etc, the way in which is decline is presented in 25x5(which actually shows footage of him wasted in 67) and also his rather low key appearance and non appearance in One Plus One doesn't really give a good impression of his 68 exploits.

I really think the May 68 bust was a major turning point for him and the band. Bill's Stone Alone mentions there being a special clause in the contract for the Goddard film where Brian may not be able to appear due to his bust/court appearances.

Perhaps he didn't show up a lot during the sessions for Beggars Banquet, but when he did, atleast up to May 68, he was interested enough and able to play something worthy of inclusion.

Hmm, I'm thinking out loud too much, I;m off to have a bath!

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with sssoul
>> It was a TV show. <<

mercy: i know it was a TV show (or anyway was intended for TV broadcast).
the music was still performed in front of an audience.
the NME appearances were aired on TV too, but you call those concerts.

I think the usual definition of concerts is whether tickets were for sale, & the NME concert wasn't specifically for TV, it just happened that TV cameras filmed part of it (remember, in 1966 the cameras didn't even film The Rolling Stones NME Poll Winners performance).

If we include TV shows, then I guess Mick Taylor's last performance while part of the band was Don Kirshnir's Rock Concert in '74 rather than the end of the 1973 European Tour.

>> (remember, in 1966 the cameras didn't even film The Rolling Stones NME Poll Winners performance) <<

smile: ah, the True But Irrelevant Department - i love it!
they didn't film the Beatles either, which also has nothing to do with it. :E
meanwhile, tickets being sold isn't *my* "usual definition" of a concert -
there have been several famous unticketed gigs that certainly "count" as concerts -
but you're welcome to go on thinking your way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-08-02 13:12 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul
>> (remember, in 1966 the cameras didn't even film The Rolling Stones NME Poll Winners performance) <<

smile: ah, the True But Irrelevant Department - i love it! they didn't film the Beatles either, which has nothing to do with it. :E
meanwhile, tickets being sold isn't *my* "usual definition" of a concert, but you're welcome to go on thinking your way.

OK, R&R Circus is a concert. Believe me, I won't lose any sleep either way...

give peace a chance

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steffiestones
give peace a chance

Wasn't that recorded live in concert in John & Yoko's hotel room?

It was certainly not a TV show

This is all really interesting. I don't know how or what the effects are that particular drugs can have on a persons ability/personality to function as a musician. Does anyone know what he was actually taking?
I'm wondering if Brian was suffering more with depression after his bust, if he was seemingly unable to contribute as he had been in the recent sessions.
How about the unreleased stuff from those BB sessions, does Brian feature prominantly on any bootleg stuff?