Is that you? You're pretty close to nailing it I think. Gotta love that open G.

JumpingKentFlash

sounds more like ziggy and the spiders from mars than the stones....but nevertheless great..

Great man ... keep at it. Good on ya, wish I could do that on gitar, I'm gettin' there VERY slowly ............ !!

Quote
paulywaul
Great man ... keep at it. Good on ya, wish I could do that on gitar, I'm gettin' there VERY slowly ............ !!

...so is Ronnie!

(as I place tin hat firmly on head and await concerted backlash).

The intro as you play it is not correct. The album version:

5 5 x 7 7 7 | 5 5 x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Live on most tours (except '78 for example) he played it like:

3/5 3 5 5 3 o
3/5 3 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o

On the album version I have always expected the intro to be in standard tuning, while the guitar that takes over as soon as the vocals come in is in open G. The D chord in the intro might also be played as standard D on the second fret.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
The intro as you play it is not correct. The album version:

5 5 x 7 7 7 | 5 5 x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Live on most tours (except '78 for example) he played it like:

3/5 3 5 5 3 o
3/5 3 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o

On the album version I have always expected the intro to be in standard tuning, while the guitar that takes over as soon as the vocals come in is in open G. The D chord in the intro might also be played as standard D on the second fret.

Mathijs

Funny you should mention '78 as being different.
I always thought he played it differently than, say, 1975,
but could never put my finger on what it was.
Always thought it was the sound quality of boots I had of '78.
Any ideas? Is he playing the intro different?
The '78 versions don't seem to be as frantic as 1975.
Was it Charlie? That would be an interesting thread,
comparing Charlie's playing on the '75 and '78 tours.
I think it's totally different.

I remember to have read an interview with Keith somewhere (was it Guitar Player?) where he stated he deliberately had his guitar out of tune for the introduction of All down the line on the album version. Can anyone confirm this?

Quote
LOGIE

Quote
paulywaul
Great man ... keep at it. Good on ya, wish I could do that on gitar, I'm gettin' there VERY slowly ............ !!

...so is Ronnie!

(as I place tin hat firmly on head and await concerted backlash).

Not fallin' for it Logie, cos you know you don't mean it anyway ... Sir Ron nails it and others - and well you know it. And anyway, look what happened the last time I bashed your tin hat with a big stick, along came BV the warlord and closed the thread !!

I think the album version sounds more like this

x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
7 7 x 7 7 7 | 7 7 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Actually the "6" is a hammer on "5>6"

At least, this is how I have always played it!

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 11:19 by liddas.

I dig it, man.

When I listened to your nice version, few things popped into my mind. If you think that Chick Berry created a certain basic form how to make a guitar based rock and roll song into the base of certain rhythmn, and this inspired genertaion of guitarists and songmakers. The most influenced of all of them, who really took the message of Berry in his heart was Keith Richards. If you master Berry's idea, there will be a limit how far you can go still being faithfull to the idea. The name of the limit is "All Down The Line". I think the song is the ultimate rock and roll song according to the formula of Chuck Berry. There is no way one can top that. I think that - and don''t get me wrong - after this Keith could have gone to pension and think "okay, that's it. I nail it". I mean, one can NOT top that song in the category of its own - after that there can ONLY be a decline, and I think in a way that is true as far as The Stones are concerned (I mean, compare it to the unspired sounding "Starfvc ker"). To an extent, and through the 70's they tried to transform their music into different direction, but as far that sort of basic 'rolling', Berry inspired music is concerned, they never sound so fresh,hot and inspired again. Songs like "You Got Me Rocking" or "Rough Justice" are boring, unnecessary and degenerated replicas if compared to "All Down The Line". That song is the Rolling Stones in its absolute peak (and "Rocks Off" is not far...)

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 11:19 by Doxa.

Think youre right, Doxa, concerning You Got Me Rocking, Rough Justice, and Id also like to add Dont Stop to the list - they may be fun in concert, but they add nothing that All Down The Line did not already have. Same for Highwire, although not even played live. Exile has three such gems - Line, Happy and Rocks Off. That was the peak.

However I tend to agree with one reviewer of Bridges who, when the album came out, wrote: "Too Tight" is a rocker with the best melodic quality since All Down The Line.

And - Carnaby, youre the man! Dig it very much.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 12:16 by alimente.

Quote
alimente
However I tend to agree with one reviewer of Bridges who, when the album came out, wrote: "Too Tight" is a rocker with the best melodic quality since All Down The Line.

I know what you - and the reviewer - mean. There is that fresh spark in "Too Tight", and that is true 'exile' mark of the song. The band playing sound mean, inspired, and Jagger has a special edge in his voice. The only song in much 'exile-hyped' ("Keith's album") DIRTY WORK I find to have this quality is the title song (even though it won't last the whole song).

But to go back to hype "All Down The Line". It seems like it is one of those songs that has a certain significance to them. It is one of the 'big songs' where they know they hit to something original, even though it is basically an album track, not a big hit or anything. Of all EXILE numbers it is most played with "Tumblin Dice" (a hit single), "Happy" (Keith's signature), It is like "Midnight Rambler" - a classic that defines their certain style. I guess for Keith, as the originator of these riffs and songs, he knows that some ideas are more fundamental than others (even though all of them are 'his babies'), and he knows that he sometimes reaches the target, and sometimes not (or just repeats his old ideas with ninimal variance). I think for that reason I can understand why the band tends to skip many of their recent rockers - most of them are okay, but creatively adding nothing - and prefers to play an orginal gem like "All Down The Line", not any of its reincarnations.

Since their comeback in 1989, there have been only one song born that seems to get to the level of 'consciousness' of the band. That is "You Got Me Rocking". For some reason - perhaps because it is so easy or fun to play, and has a nice concert validity - it seems to be the only song the band finds inspiring enough to play regularly.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 14:49 by Doxa.

Quote
liddas
I think the album version sounds more like this

x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
7 7 x 7 7 7 | 7 7 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Actually the "6" is a hammer on "5>6"

At least, this is how I have always played it!

C

Your version is probably as correct as my version -I can't hear on which string it is played on the album. I know for sure that live he played my version (that is: played on the B and high E string, not G and B string).

As I said, I suspect the riff to be in standard tuning, and indeed played on the G and B string 7/6 position. The D chord is then played on the 2nd fret. I suspect this is also the reason why he played it live differently.

Mathijs

Quote
marcovandereijk
I remember to have read an interview with Keith somewhere (was it Guitar Player?) where he stated he deliberately had his guitar out of tune for the introduction of All down the line on the album version. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't think it was deliberately, but indeed the G string is slighly out of tune.

Mathijs

Quite agree about the hammer on. Subtle but there .[A bit like the vague hammer ons in the GS intro...The starting note is kind of hit in front of the beat and doesn't register fully with the listener.
Keith played lots of subtle variations on the ADTL riff over the years. There's often a hint of a Cm7 in the middle bit ;^)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 19:12 by Spud.

Quote
Doxa
I dig it, man.

If you master Berry's idea, there will be a limit how far you can go still being faithfull to the idea. The name of the limit is "All Down The Line". I think the song is the ultimate rock and roll song according to the formula of Chuck Berry.

To an extent, and through the 70's they tried to transform their music into different direction, but as far that sort of basic 'rolling', Berry inspired music is concerned, they never sound so fresh,hot and inspired again. Songs like "You Got Me Rocking" or "Rough Justice" are boring, unnecessary and degenerated replicas if compared to "All Down The Line". That song is the Rolling Stones in its absolute peak (and "Rocks Off" is not far...)

- Doxa

I don't agree too much. Line is a true highlight of Exile, fair enough. But musically speaking, it is quite far away from the Chuck Berry model.

Of course there are licks and tricks here and there that come from Berry's playing, but that is it.

It is one of those songs that - for me - come directly from Keith's excited exploration of the possibilities of an electric guitar tuned in open G. If you compare Line as is on Exile to the acoustic early version of the same, you will see that the idea does not come from the classic Barry r'n'r pattern. He had this chord progression and melodic line, and made it immense by developing it "horizontally" along the neck of the guitar - enhancing chord changes, beat and dynamics by alternating barre chords high on the neck and the huge sound of the open g, or with his great down stroke palm muted percussive work on the low G string.

C

p.s. Star Star, the studio version, is one of the stones greats rockers.

carnaby, thanks for sharin' your good stuff ............



liddas wrote:

p.s. Star Star, the studio version, is one of the stones greats rockers.

...... thats my opinion too, a bonifide master piece.

Quote
liddas

Quote
Doxa
I dig it, man.

If you master Berry's idea, there will be a limit how far you can go still being faithfull to the idea. The name of the limit is "All Down The Line". I think the song is the ultimate rock and roll song according to the formula of Chuck Berry.

To an extent, and through the 70's they tried to transform their music into different direction, but as far that sort of basic 'rolling', Berry inspired music is concerned, they never sound so fresh,hot and inspired again. Songs like "You Got Me Rocking" or "Rough Justice" are boring, unnecessary and degenerated replicas if compared to "All Down The Line". That song is the Rolling Stones in its absolute peak (and "Rocks Off" is not far...)

- Doxa

I don't agree too much. Line is a true highlight of Exile, fair enough. But musically speaking, it is quite far away from the Chuck Berry model.

Of course there are licks and tricks here and there that come from Berry's playing, but that is it.

It is one of those songs that - for me - come directly from Keith's excited exploration of the possibilities of an electric guitar tuned in open G. If you compare Line as is on Exile to the acoustic early version of the same, you will see that the idea does not come from the classic Barry r'n'r pattern. He had this chord progression and melodic line, and made it immense by developing it "horizontally" along the neck of the guitar - enhancing chord changes, beat and dynamics by alternating barre chords high on the neck and the huge sound of the open g, or with his great down stroke palm muted percussive work on the low G string.

C

p.s. Star Star, the studio version, is one of the stones greats rockers.

I can see the difference between "Line" and typical Chuck Berry stuff you describe here, but what I meant by Chuck Berry "idea" is not barely the basic three-chord blues scale, and those distinguished riffs and solos, but more like the swing, tempo and the approach Berry has for his songs (like "Rock and Roll music", "Sweet Little sixteen", "Little Queenie"). I also think think the song basically is based on one of Keith's experiments on open tuning (like you described nicely), but I think that is just the means - he transforms those chords into simple chuck berry-boogie woogie-form (or to put it in other words: he plays them with chuck berry-approach). The simple form is there, even though it is covered with rich chord-varieties or sequences, of which some are even surprising. The point I tried to say that he is not coping Berry's style, but developes Berry's ideas into greater hights. It is a chuckberry-rocker playing and testing the possibilities of the open G - not any Ry Cooder could have come up with a song like this!

As far "Star Star" goes, well, the form of it is much closer to classical Berry format (starting from the guitar intro), and perhaps for that reason I do not think it is musically that inspiring. I hear a bit of early marks of autopilot attitude, and the band making too 'easy' decisions. Of course, it still is a great tune!

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 21:34 by Doxa.

Flip the Switch is a much underated rocker.
Some of the live versions rival anything in that vein.

I like the discussion here, especially Doxa's input.

Another thought of mine, following Doxa's line of reasoning. Chuck Berry made the step to take boogie woogie paterns into guitar riffage and now we are generally talking about a classical Berry format or Berryesque riffs and so on.

Now Keith took the Berry idea and transformed it into his chord-varieties and riffs like All down the line (Happy, Brown Sugar, Dance little sister, Hand of fate etc). I think this Richards Format or Keefian Riffs are equally important in the history of Rock n Roll as Berry's. One can hear the echo of Keith' work today in songs of Dandy Warhols, Pearl Jam or Black Keys. Keith is as big an innovator of rock as Berry was.

By the way, it is hard to think of a reason why the Stones waited till Shine a light to bring out a Live version of All down the line on a live album.

All Down The Line live was the B-side to one the singles from the Stripped live album. (I think the A-side was Like A Rolling Stone).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-08 13:19 by WeLoveYou.

Not an album...
But on the Like A Rolling Stone CD single
there's a live version of Line from Paradiso 1995



ROCKMAN

Mate
I am on guitarist, I don't care if it was the 75 or 78 version, i don't care if it is x x x 7 7 7 or x x 7 x 7 7 or if it was like Chuck Berry blah blah blah - I thought it sounded great.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
marcovandereijk
I remember to have read an interview with Keith somewhere (was it Guitar Player?) where he stated he deliberately had his guitar out of tune for the introduction of All down the line on the album version. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't think it was deliberately, but indeed the G string is slighly out of tune.

Mathijs

Keith has commented in the past about sometimes pulling the bottom string sharp when playing in standard tuning with the thumb over the top.
It's often a function of having smallish hands. I have the same issue myself.
He's often also remarked about not being too worried about keeping a take that's a bit out of tune if it feels right...and about how some players hear intonation a bit differently to others.

Quote
Mathijs
The intro as you play it is not correct. The album version:

5 5 x 7 7 7 | 5 5 x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Live on most tours (except '78 for example) he played it like:

3/5 3 5 5 3 o
3/5 3 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o

On the album version I have always expected the intro to be in standard tuning, while the guitar that takes over as soon as the vocals come in is in open G. The D chord in the intro might also be played as standard D on the second fret.

Mathijs

Funny,you told me (in Dutch) it's not important to copy the RS exact if you want to play them and no you talk like this.
The intro might not be correct,the feel of this guy(as far as the intro is concerned) is ok.

Quote
Amsterdamned

Quote
Mathijs
The intro as you play it is not correct. The album version:

5 5 x 7 7 7 | 5 5 x 7 7 7
6 5 x 7 7 7 | 6 5 x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x x 7 7 7 | x x x 7 5 0
x x 7 x 7 7 | x x 7 x x 0

Live on most tours (except '78 for example) he played it like:

3/5 3 5 5 3 o
3/5 3 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o
x x x 5 5 3 o

On the album version I have always expected the intro to be in standard tuning, while the guitar that takes over as soon as the vocals come in is in open G. The D chord in the intro might also be played as standard D on the second fret.

Mathijs

Funny,you told me (in Dutch) it's not important to copy the RS exact if you want to play them and no you talk like this.
The intro might not be correct,the feel of this guy(as far as the intro is concerned) is ok.

Amsterdamned, you don't have to answer all of my posts.

Anyway, his feeling is off too. He plays every chord exactly right on the beat, especially the sus2 and sus4 additions. Those should be played more percussive, just before and after the beat.

If you put a video of yourself playing a Stones song on one of the biggest Stones boards on the net you can expect a small discussion on how you play it...

Mathijs

well, don't wanna be offending or sound like a smart-arse: but since you posted it here, critic should be allowed and critic also helps you to improve.
i think you should really work on the timing, it's pretty off at some points where you change chords. you're always a bit too late and then it sounds as you wanna catch up again. ;-) and it just doesnt have a natural flow. you don't have to try too hard to sound like keith. just find your own timing, but still stay in time.
what people say about playing behind or after the beat shouldn't be missunderstood as "ignoring the beat"! listen to amy winehouse singing for instance: she always phrases around the beat (pulse), but she still nails it like no one else. same with keith rhythm.
keep up the good work, and just don't get me wrong!
all the best - peace!

***** i'm a cold italian pizza *****

Loved it. I really enjoy hearing the guitar parts of those songs.

Let's see yours, guitarbastard.

(Great job kid! Keep it up, don't let the armchair axemen Sway ya - they're just Jealous Again!)

[thepowergoats.com]