Ike and Annie Mae Bullock....Circa 1960....



ROCKMAN

I hate the way he hold his guitar like this ............. did he do this on purpose ?

__________________________

rocket 88 rip

ROCKMAN

R.I.P.

ROCKMAN

Baboon Bro Wrote:
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> Let he or she, who is without sin, throw the first
> stone (coco?)..
> What do we ACTUALLY know?


im chock full of your religion's sins but i dont hit my gal and never will. this aint no conspiracy the dude was violent to his women and I can't groove with that.

So noone can... But this aint no woman's liberation forum.
This here is a rock and roll community.
I condemn all kind of violence, and more than other types
violence against women and children and animals.

But: Let the man be for a day or two - t h e n jump his throat?

It's a savage & pagan world which wait for us, when noone gets the
chance to repent or reach betterness. Let him stand for the
Big Judger or whatever it is we meet after light's gone out.

What do we actually know about the relationship between Tina or
anyone on one side, and Ike Turner on the other. What do we know
about their background?

Jerry Lee has done weird thing. Chuck Berry. Our main men...
Hell, Mick screw Keith's gf while Keith sat outside in the
car and (because of that, probably!) wrote Gimme Shelter.
Take a good look at Humanity.. Watch Peter Tosh's habits...
Marvin Gaye... James Brown...

Point is: Yeah, probably a mean bastard, that ole r & r pioneer.
But... He just passed away. Please take it easy.

He just passed away. Please take it easy....

Agree.....



ROCKMAN

"this ain't no women's liberation forum this here is a rock n roll community"

wow-you really said that...

Coco King of irony perception :O)

However he
> may have been towards Tina, he was very nice to....


there's no "however". women-beating men won't ever get my respect!

coocoo for coconuts...tina packs a mighty drunken first sucker punch wallop herself...did u know that or ever consider that?
i don't think that ever condones hitting a woman but look at the thing in perspective beyond the showbiz books and movies and melodrama that were ghost written and purposely made to make ike play the devil and tina the angel; and neither was either baby.

u know, i know, most everyone in the universe knows... there's no excuse for violence, especially man hitting a woman, but don't believe everything you see in a stupid movie or ghost written melodramatic I TINA thing...

yes terrible violent things happened...no i would never excuse them...Ike didn't himself.
i interviewed Ike in Mens Colony State Prison in 1990 for a magazine and ended up spending a lot of personal time with him, and his contemporaries like little richard, for the story; and beyond...even after he was released, but more importantly to your point re: violence...i also spent time with people VERY close to Tina; people who appreciate her and love her but they were the first to roll their eyes and had many a drunken violent story to tell about Tina on the road sans Ike, after Ike...so you know...there's more to the story than what they feed you to get a book or movie deal...and gi took the time to get the skinny on her work and recreational habits as well...

And i wouldn't presume that baboon bro is off base with that comment for various reasons...
it's easy to be self righteous about these things...they seem so black and white, and sometimes they are...but usually there's a ton of grey as well...

...also know one of Tina's dancers very very well; just a personal friend for over 25 years now...
a really good old friend, and a great dancer, now a professional in another field these many years later... who worked with her when she left Ike and was doing vegas and smaller rooms before her huge comeback...
there's early concert video of my friend performing with her during the vegas days when she was doing a slow bluesy version of lennon's "help" in her set...there was an early cable special before she made it back to super stardom...all the way back and beyond...and Annie Bullock, never mind the bollocks, girl, she'll play it real cute and deceptive if it suits her...
at least back then...

friends and sources tells me many nights, even then, a drunken Tina would get loud and throw the first punch at someone, this AFTER the divorce and while the perfect meditation goddess...even with all the sanctomonious chanting and the book that makes her look like queen of angels...so ike was honest and didn't make any excuses for the horrible violence, nor did he lie...
tina on the other hand, is not the princess victim she makes herself out to be...tho i would never say she deserved to get smacked in the jaw like that...and i challenged ike about it to his face...and he responded honestly...

his legacy will not be marital violence with tina...his legacy is creating so much good blues and seminal rock and roll music as a genius producer, player and band leader...and a visionary who had the organizational skills to put these elements all together, including, surprise surprise, a lot of the choreography, the costumery etc...he was very much in charge and someone has to be...and everyone else can take potshots without knowing a larger perspective.

she whined about him making her scream in higher and higher keys...and created the best most exciting r&b records she ever made...the very best records of her career...that early stuff is ripping...tina even bitches about that...
and afterward, with the exception of river deep,
never made another an important record again in her life without ike,
despite the maudlin 'we don't need another hero' what's love got to do with it trash.
stunner of a live performer...ike taught her well and there's so much natural talent and beauty in her...but she made a living her whole life and career because someone showed her the ropes and a strong producer made her work her ass off and scream her heart out on some of the most exciting records ever made...

and i can independently verify that a lot of that stuff in the book and movie was so dramatized; overly so...
she had a kid with one of the guys in the band almost immediately, that ike raised as his own...a lot of stuff goin' on behind all the sensationalized stuff to sell movies and books, trust me on this. $$$
what's the point in showing Ike as a human being if the selling point and cartharsis arc of the screenplay is basically a monster movie...

and rest in peace Ike...absolute genius a & r and session man for the best of the delta cats...broke the color line...CREATED tina and the ikettes out of his own full vision...cut what sam phillips thought was the definitive first rock and roll record ever...he deserves my prayers and is getting them...
let he without sin cast the first reactionary uninformed stone.
YES there was bad violence in that marriage...yes it's horrible...
yes tina worked it for money...and was quite the drunken violent sexually promoiscuous biyutch herself...
not excusing violence, and he smacked her down and that's awful and evil and out of control...hate violence...especially against women, but that's not the whole story, and the parts you hear are often quite slanted...

i haven't had time to read this whole thread yet, and am in a bit of personal shock frankly....but thank goodness Rockman's on the job, (as usual bless him,) for some historical accuracy and intelligent perspective. and great pix.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 04:18 by Beelyboy.

guitarbastard Wrote:
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> However he
> > may have been towards Tina, he was very nice
> to....
>
>
> there's no "however". women-beating men won't ever
> get my respect!

You clearly missed my point. I was saying that for people who never met him and only know of what he did to Tina, that they may have assumed that he would be an ass in public like some celebrities are. I pointed out that he was nice to fans, to show that as someone who did meet him, that in public he was respectful to complete strangers like me. I'm not condoning any abuse he did towards Tina.

guitarbastard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However he
> > may have been towards Tina, he was very nice
> to....
>
>
> there's no "however". women-beating men won't ever
> get my respect!

howz about drunken drugged up women sucker punching men, that's ok with you?
what's your respect worth if it's uninformed or colored by hype anyway?

he dosen't need your respect and wouldn't care...if you had respect for your own aesthetics you'd get some of that very early ike and tina stuff...

ike won a grammy this very year. [www.iketurner.com]
his contribution to blues and r&b and rock and roll is original and enormous.
how wonderful he was acknowledged and loved before his life ended today.
R.I.P. the great Ike Turner; born so poor he would sew rags together to make a blanket; watched his father die in front of his family home after being beaten by several caucasian fellers and then refused care at a hosptial...

nothing justifies violence toward women like duhhhh, but there's a human being there who was at the end of some pretty harsh shots himself, some of them directly from the fists of your angel...

like the news; a world of hyprocrits...hot teacher chick rapes a school kid and is out of jail taking fashion pix in a bikini on a motorcycle...
some idiot dude goes out with an underage girl and he's in the slammer bigtime, longtime...the recpient of unspeakable acts of repeated violence...

lots of lies in the press; lots of money in lies...you are entitled to disrepect him; i hate violence, and would give a woman a free shot and walk away if it ever came to that, and thank goodness it never has...i don't know if i'd give her two free shots tho...so i have earned your disrepect as well i suppose.
don't read everything you read in the papers. think context.
what's your biggest sin or most reactionary cruelest moment of your entire life?
or are you perfect?
take that moment and hate yourself and the world for it every single day for the rest of your life and have strangers who don't know you or the circumstanes write crap about you...
i have a theory about those who throw the first stone...and hide behind self righteousness, but i'll just repeat what the thread author titled this:
Ike Turner RIP

The importance of Ike to rock music cannot be underestimated, in spite of all that's been said about him and his failings. Listen to "Rocket 88", and you're listening to the birth of rock and roll.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-31 06:23 by cirrhosis.

No offense. But do we really want to say R.I.P. to a wife beater like ike turner. Who by most accounts was a miserable SOB on the best of days........Just wondering?

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No offense. But do we really want to say R.I.P. to
> a wife beater like ike turner. Who by most
> accounts was a miserable SOB on the best of
> days........Just wondering?

by all means yes. And by any standard of decency and honor, you should join in this "we," unless "sweetcharmedlife" is your synonym for "miserable SOB."

Just for the record cc. By no means does scl = sob. I soft selled it, out of some kind of dignity. But yeah again. Wife beater is never a soft cell. Nor did I imply as much.,

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No offense. But do we really want to say R.I.P. to
> a wife beater like ike turner. Who by most
> accounts was a miserable SOB on the best of
> days........Just wondering?



we praise other artists who have done far worse things ,hell brian jones was abusive to women but that's not talked about, how many rock stars have had sex with underaged girls yet are considered rock gods?

Great vid clip cc; thank you! whoa. gets you moving bigtime...wonderful wonderful wonderful. God bless Ike Turner.
and IF we're alive when Tina meets her end, and please let her live a very long active healthy life, but if she goes before me, i'll always remember her for a great energy, beauty and all-out givingness and outrageous talent as a performer, and not that she was a lying drunk violent ho who wasn't above villifying somebody just as nuts as she was, and lying for a payoff...

how's it feel the other way around?

WOW that video is incredible...holy moly that is incredible rock and roll;
just knocks me out.
R.I.P. Ike.
he ripped up the world and deserves every bit of praise my rock and roll heart can give him. The Stones were very brilliant to have them open all the '69 tour.

Ray Topping 2001



ROCKMAN

Excuse me Beely Boy but I was in the presence of Ike Turner on numerous occasions. He was a drugged out maniac in constant trouble with the police for many different charges. He was a very frightening human being.

I was happy to hear he got clean and became a human again. But it didn't make me want to seek him out.

As for your comments on Tina, who I also was around in good times and bad, I feel quite differently than you, and I don't base my comments on books or movies, only from real life.

i don't doubt your experience stonesrule; not at all; especially if he was using crack; jeezum, i bet that WAS frightening and awful and ugly...
even his closest friends, people who he had been hugely generous to, wouldn't give him a c note for bail toward the end before his jailing...they had the money but knew it was all going to go up his nose or smoked. i met him when he was sober (in jail) and that's a totally different vibe i'm sure...he told me he had a hole up in his nasal cavity big enough for me to stick my pen thru from coke abuse...
so please understand, i meant no personal disrepect toward you; nor do i doubt you; coke addicts, either thru smoking or sniffing ARE all about the drug period; everything is all about the drug...i've seen it up close with certain friends, and we'd try to support them getting clean and sober and all that...it's the ugliest drug with the ugliest effect on people...and i'm sure your honest personal experiences with him using give an honest accurate description...it's real ugly stuff...gosh, crack addicts are TOTALLY about one thing. more drugs. it's ugly and scary and makes people totally sick and desperate and evil.
i'm sorry if my general advocacy of a non-drugged Ike in the latter years and my support of all his contributions to music seemed like it was disprecting your personal experience. I really wasn't aiming that at you; just riffing off the general theme. please excuse me if i seemed in any way like i was doubting you or dissing your experience, because i definetly do not. absolutely trust where you're coming from. and know it's an honest place.

There have been many @#$%& in this world and if you're going to piss on anyone who's hit women and only focus on that aspect of their life, then you're going to be missing out on some truly amazing music, films, photography etc etc.

I LOVE Jimi Hendrix for example, but I also know, via an interview with Eric Burden, that Jimi attacked a woman with a brick. Now, should I stop listening and celebrating his fantastic music because of this!? I don't think so, same goes for Ike Turner, Miles Davis, Brian Jones...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 08:08 by His Majesty.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-31 06:23 by cirrhosis.

except for their proud mary cover i've never even listend to ike and tina's music but figure it's kind of cold blooded to talk bad about one person but praise others who've done the same or worse

that Live In Amsterdam 1971 DVD's on tonight!