>> The Early Stones <<

smile: thanks HM - i actually have that book around here somewhere.
thanks for the nudge to unearth it.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Those photos show Brian sitting playing acoustic
> guitar beside Mick and Keith, everything else is
> indeed open to interpretation.
>
> But, the general 'bigger picture' of that time is
> that Brian was not an integral member of the
> band.... I mean, There's a possible replacement
> playing in the same room for a start. :-)


That's correct, but I find interesting - even worth mentioning above - was that the the first two pictures seems to be in a conflict with the 'bigger picture' - Just by looking those photos Brian seems to be still very close to the very core of the band - Mick and Keith - and if we wouldn't know anything of the 'bigger picture' it would be quite difficult to imply that he is NOT an integral part of the band. The plain photos tell something else. According to the 'bigger picture' he should have been in the opposite corner of the room - or more likely: out of the room totally. Brian's physical presence, still in 1969, to the very heart of the band amazes me. I didn't know, for example, that there were sessions where BOTH Brian and his 'possible replecement' Ry Cooder were present and playing. Even though it is difficult to say if all the photos are from the same session or from the same take of a song - there is a photo of Charlie drumming and then him walking with a beer in his hand. But in any case: wonderful photos!

And the Melody Maker article prior Hyde Park is a treasure as well. Keep them coming!

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 11:53 by Doxa.

Redlands 1969 - Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Jack Nitzsche - Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

Great photos as usual Rockman

Thanks

Yeah thanks Rockman

No worries boys...see if I can pin-up a couple more...

ROCKMAN

..............Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

.................Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

.................Michael Cooper

ROCKMAN

cool pics, Rock. thanks for sharing.

Anytime Adi anytime...Small photos, so hard to get a lotta quality outta them

ROCKMAN

Far f-ing out ROCKMAN! Blinds and Shutters?

Thank you for posting those!!! Looks like that's Jack Nitsche there as well.

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

Doxa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's correct, but I find interesting - even
> worth mentioning above - was that the the first
> two pictures seems to be in a conflict with the
> 'bigger picture' - Just by looking those photos
> Brian seems to be still very close to the very
> core of the band - Mick and Keith - and if we
> wouldn't know anything of the 'bigger picture' it
> would be quite difficult to imply that he is NOT
> an integral part of the band.

I don't think those pictures go against the general bigger picture... my understanding of it. If anything they kind of back it up imo. :-)

Of course they would still have interacted, talked, and there's enough comments out there from people who were about that if Brian did turn up, they would accommodate him. We can't tell if he's in tune, if that mic(that's too far away from his guitar to be of any use) is on etc.

If we judge the band dynamics by photos, then going by some of the 1969 Ethan Russel shots, Brain was still the leader and possibly having a love affair with Mick!?!?!. :-()





___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 19:18 by His Majesty.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I don't think those pictures go against the
>> Of course they would still have interacted,
> talked, and there's enough comments out there from
> people who were about that if Brian did turn up,
> they would accommodate him. We can't tell if he's
> in tune, if that mic(that's too far away from his
> guitar to be of any use) is on etc.
>
> If we judge the band dynamics by photos, then
> going by some of the 1969 Ethan Russel shots,
> Brain was still the leader and po¨ssibly having a
> love affair with Mick!?!?!. :-()

So you don't find any distinction between posing for camera and taking pictures of the guys in the middle of action? So all of those great photos you and Rockman kindly share here above is just people posing for camera, not like trying to produce some actual music? "Hey, there is a camera out there, c'mon Brian, move your ass right here to pose with us!".

I still wonder the omnipotent abilities of certain people to judge by solely looking at the picture if some guy has a guitar out of tune or not. And even more it amazes me why people find that sort of thing to be worth of speculating at all. There are bootlegs that we can hear that, for example, Keith Richards is sometimes out of tune, but just making that judgement on the base of a picture, wow...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 22:02 by Doxa.

Doxa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So if you don't find any distinction between
> posing for camera and taking pictures of the guys
> in the middle of action? So all of those great
> photos you and Rockman kindly share here above is
> just people posing for camera, not like trying to
> produce some actual music? "Hey, there is a camera
> out there, c'mon Brian, move your ass right here
> to pose with us!".
>
> I still wonder the omnipotent abilities of certain
> people to judge by solely looking at the picture
> if some guy has a guitar out of tune or not. And
> even more it amazes me why people find that sort
> of thing to be worth of speculating at all. There
> are bootlegs that we can hear that, for example,
> Keith Richards is sometimes out of tune, but just
> making that judgement on the base of a picture,
> wow...
>
> - Doxa

Jeezus!?

I am saying that WE don't know whether he is in tune or not and (I haven't said he is out of tune!), mic'd up etc.

BUT that a photographer has told us that Brian was unable to tune his guitar at a recording session in 1969 and that his mic was turned off. Two separate occasions, I'm not saying that is the case in the redlands pic. Understand, are we clear!?

You are assuming Brian is very much still involved based on those pics. He's there, playing a guitar with a mic kinda infront of him, that's all it shows!

I'm assuming that whether he's playing in tune or not, you aren't going to hear much of him in the room or on a recording because the mic which appears to be meant for his guitar is too far away to really pickup the sound of an acoustic being played in a room full of musicians plugged in to amps with a drummer playing. Do you understand this point as you seem to be completely ignoring it!?

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-13 22:18 by His Majesty.

man thats sad to see brian cowering in micks arms as keith breaks the glass in that one pic

Olympic Sound Studios - probably November/December 1966 - by Michael Cooper







___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Jeezus!?

You know him?


>
> I am saying that WE don't know whether he is in
> tune or not, mic'd up etc. BUT that someone has
> told us that Brian was unable to tune his guitar
> at a recording session and that his mic was turned
> off. Two separate occasions, I'm not saying that
> is the case in the redlands pic.

Exactly my thoughts. I just can't see any reason to start in the first place speculating if someone has a guitar out of tune or not.


>
> You are assuming Brian is very much still involved
> based on those pics. He's there, playing a guitar
> with a mic kinda infront of him, that's all it
> shows!

Exactly my thoughts that 'he's there, playing guitar with a mic kinda infront of him, that's all it shows". I'm not assuming that Brian is 'very much still involved', but to me that is more than I'm used to think, based on material I'm familiar with of the 1969 sessions. He seems to be quite present taken all the claims of him being more or less absolutely irrelevant at this stage. That was my original observation, not very big one, but enough big one for you make a mess about it. If he really was out of tune, out of his mind, out of interest or other ways irrelevant Mick and Keith seemed to be were REALLY tolerant. I don't know, perhaps they were.

>
> I'm assuming that whether he's playing in tune or
> not, you aren't going to hear much of him in the
> room or on a recording because the mic which
> appears to be meant for his guitar is too far away
> to really pickup the sound of an acoustic being
> played in a room full of musicians plugged in to
> amps with a drummer playing. Do you understand
> this point as you seem to be completely ignoring
> it!?

I would say that you are assuming there quite a lot of the circumstances. Taking the picture where there is Mick, Keith and Brian; we don't know if they are playing with some other people, or how loud for, example, Keith is playing - maybe they are just jamming there, shaping the song or whatever - there is Jagger with a harp and no mic near - perhaps he doesn't even need that - perhaps they are playing like in the early takes of "Sympathy For The Devil" in Godard movie.

Anyway, sorry for making my observation.

- Doxa

Doxa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
He seems to be quite
> present taken all the claims of him being more or
> less absolutely irrelevant at this stage.

Yes, I'm rather surprised by the amount of photos there are of him with the stones in 1969 as well, most books pitch it as the r&r circus, then he's dead. We know there's a whole 6 months and a few days after that, atleast 5 of those months he was still a stone.

It's a period I'm very much interested in, hence my over analysis and specualtion over little things...

My apologies for getting so worked up! :-)

___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

The Gospel according to many fans is that Brian was useless from 1967 on, because of his drugabuse. And he beat women up all the time. There is no demand for proof, this is a fact according to the gospel. At the same time Ry Cooder, present in the photos, did not write anything and is 100% wrong about Keith "stealing" bits and pieces and possible riffs. It's all about the Gospel. Brian cannot have done anything around this time, it says so in the Bible.



Doxa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His Majesty Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Jeezus!?
>
> You know him?
>
>
> >
> > I am saying that WE don't know whether he is in
> > tune or not, mic'd up etc. BUT that someone
> has
> > told us that Brian was unable to tune his
> guitar
> > at a recording session and that his mic was
> turned
> > off. Two separate occasions, I'm not saying
> that
> > is the case in the redlands pic.
>
> Exactly my thoughts. I just can't see any reason
> to start in the first place speculating if someone
> has a guitar out of tune or not.
>
>
> >
> > You are assuming Brian is very much still
> involved
> > based on those pics. He's there, playing a
> guitar
> > with a mic kinda infront of him, that's all it
> > shows!
>
> Exactly my thoughts that 'he's there, playing
> guitar with a mic kinda infront of him, that's all
> it shows". I'm not assuming that Brian is 'very
> much still involved', but to me that is more than
> I'm used to think, based on material I'm familiar
> with of the 1969 sessions. He seems to be quite
> present taken all the claims of him being more or
> less absolutely irrelevant at this stage. That was
> my original observation, not very big one, but
> enough big one for you make a mess about it. If he
> really was out of tune, out of his mind, out of
> interest or other ways irrelevant Mick and Keith
> seemed to be were REALLY tolerant. I don't know,
> perhaps they were.
>
> >
> > I'm assuming that whether he's playing in tune
> or
> > not, you aren't going to hear much of him in
> the
> > room or on a recording because the mic which
> > appears to be meant for his guitar is too far
> away
> > to really pickup the sound of an acoustic being
> > played in a room full of musicians plugged in
> to
> > amps with a drummer playing. Do you understand
> > this point as you seem to be completely
> ignoring
> > it!?
>
> I would say that you are assuming there quite a
> lot of the circumstances. Taking the picture where
> there is Mick, Keith and Brian; we don't know if
> they are playing with some other people, or how
> loud for, example, Keith is playing - maybe they
> are just jamming there, shaping the song or
> whatever - there is Jagger with a harp and no mic
> near - perhaps he doesn't even need that - perhaps
> they are playing like in the early takes of
> "Sympathy For The Devil" in Godard movie.
>
> Anyway, sorry for making my observation.
>
> - Doxa

Great pics btw, many thanks for posting . Nice to see them in b&w

But at the same time LA FORUM, just because he is there doesn't mean what he's playing is of much use.

One plus One shows that imo, his acoustic part is just not needed. The varying distance of the mic from his guitar( ehehe oh no, not this again!) during takes due to him moving about shows that his part was never taken seriously. That will not have recorded well, if it was being recorded in the first place.





___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

Just for fun...



___________________________
The Brian Jones Experience

YEAH Majesty.... was thinkin' much the same thing....

ROCKMAN

Just my two cents...

If you look closely it seems there's two sessions involved:

1: Brian, Keith and Mick, in a darker and smaller room, which looks like an attic; the floor is filled with carpets and cushions, and:
2: Ry Cooder, Mick, Bill and Charlie, in a large room with a very smart wooden floor, and the room is filled with equipment.

Now, maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen any picture with either Ry and Brian together, nor Ry and Keith together. Comments from Anita Pallenberg were something like "Ry was stoned for a week and left disgusted", and about Brian people stated things like "Brian was dead and gone by then".

These pictures may seem to reveil an awfull lot of things, but I really doubt they in fact do.

Mathijs