Yes it was a short set.

But it was a high energy set played to a high energy crowd as if they had something to prove - which they did. That's to say they DID have something to prove, AND they proved it!

chrismusic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate to sound negative ..but seemed like a short
> set the world's greatest R&R band.

It was a festival. Not a regular show and not a regular ticket price. And their set was the longest of anyone's - as should be for the headline act. It was such a blistering show that complaints of that nature really pale into insignificance.

All this "can they ? " can't they ?","did they?", "should they?" is all pretty academic really isn't it.

I don't think there's any reason to think that they couldn't pull off a killer performance in stripped down form in the appropriatte surroundings...No reason whatever.
As regards the modern Stones show. It results from their belief in that being how you put on the best show in a Stadium...and they choose to play predominently stadiums.
The success and general acclaim they've received over the last almost 20 years would seem to suggest that they're right.

We may disagree with various decisions they make and things they do.
Many of us [me included] would love to see them in a "purer" form...but whether that equates to "better" or "worse" is totally a matter of opinion.

>> buzzwords like "market forces", "they charge what the market can afford", "they wont always be around",
"but its worth it" and other such guff. <<

just to save people the trouble of searching for buzzwords:
most of us would be *happier* paying less, obviously, but every time we buy tickets for face value
we are demonstrating that we are *willing* to pay those prices. it's just the facts
that bitching about the prices and paying them anyway isn't a way to encourage anyone to lower them.
bitching about the high prices *and* moaning about slow sales and last-minute discounts (like at Frankfurt)
makes no sense whatsoever. slow sales and last-minute discounts/giveaways should be welcomed as
say-hallelujah time by everyone who feels the prices are too high.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> buzzwords like "market forces", "they charge
> what the market can afford", "they wont always be
> around",
> "but its worth it" and other such guff. <<
>
> just to save people the trouble of searching for
> buzzwords:
> most of us would be *happier* paying less,
> obviously, but every time we buy tickets for face
> value
> we are demonstrating that we are *willing* to pay
> those prices. it's just the facts
> that bitching about the prices and paying them
> anyway isn't a way to encourage anyone to lower
> them.
> bitching about the high prices *and* moaning about
> slow sales and last-minute discounts (like at
> Frankfurt)
> makes no sense whatsoever. slow sales and
> last-minute discounts/giveaways should be welcomed
> as
> say-hallelujah time by everyone who feels the
> prices are too high.


Yep, I agree ;-)

Rolling Stones Tribute

Play Rolling Stones

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> buzzwords like "market forces", "they charge
> what the market can afford", "they wont always be
> around",
> "but its worth it" and other such guff. <<
>
> just to save people the trouble of searching for
> buzzwords:
> most of us would be *happier* paying less,
> obviously, but every time we buy tickets for face
> value
> we are demonstrating that we are *willing* to pay
> those prices. it's just the facts
> that bitching about the prices and paying them
> anyway isn't a way to encourage anyone to lower
> them.
> bitching about the high prices *and* moaning about
> slow sales and last-minute discounts (like at
> Frankfurt)
> makes no sense whatsoever. slow sales and
> last-minute discounts/giveaways should be welcomed
> as
> say-hallelujah time by everyone who feels the
> prices are too high.


We buy our tickets because it is an extravagance that we can just about afford, and even then, such high prices will restrict the number of shows that we'd like to see on a tour.

But more to the point, what about those people who are *willing* but *cannot afford*? These people (which largely includes the young) are part of the huge market out there which has been excluded through such greed. It is a lost generation, as can be seen from the IOW footage.

However, when a kid can go and see the likes of Muse, Coldplay, Keane, Stereophonics etc., at £25 a time, then even half price *halleluja* prices of the Stones seem an absolute rip-off.

Halleluja my arse.

You see a short set and there is somuch more energy...in nijmegen one could see it....on this Island thing you could see and feel it so much more....thus..lower tic price shorter set(mind you its still a longer set than in 1978!)...more young hearts....and a full energy gig....thanks for all those great reviews!!

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not such a sad case that I'm going to store
> hundreds of posts on the subject but as theres a
> 'search' function on this site, no doubt entering
> keywords like 'ticket prices' should enable you,
> if you so desire, to find scores of posts over the
> years justifying them accompanied by such
> buzzwords like "market forces", "they charge what
> the market can afford", "they wont always be
> around", "but its worth it" and other such guff.


I think that there is a big difference between "justifying" ticket prices being high and "wanting" them to be lower. When you justify the high prices on this board, people are just saying that the ticket prices are set based on market forces etc, which is true. If you are a promotor, why would you sell tickets at £25 each when you can sell a stadium at £150 each? Even if you sell tickets at 5 times value and half the number of ticket sales, you still make more profit, but for less work! The fact that people are then "willing" to pay these prices does not mean that they "want" to pay those prices. It is these two competing influences that has always been the deciding factor in setting ticket prices, and explains why stones tickets have always been the most expensive tickets in town - the demand is so high.

Now none of this means that I support high ticket prices because I do not and never have. I have always been passionate about having lower prices and standing room gigs in order to widen the fan base. There are some people on here though (Debra for example) who actually prefer to have seated shows and higher ticket prices because they have lots of money and can afford to get lots of good seats at lots of shows. I disagree but have to respect their opinion. On the other hand, I still don't see why seated shows should be forced on everyone. Why not have seating in the stalls and standing on the pitch - best of both worlds, you would have thought.


My argument for cheaper ticket prices and standing room at gigs is actually based on attracting a different (younger and probably poorer) fan base and therefore enhancing the band's legacy. In addition, it would be more fun for us fans at gigs! How many of us would love to be able to take along a freind who is a casual fan "waiting to be converted" but who just won't or can't afford to pay £150 for one gig when that is maybe a weeks rent! I'd love to take my kids to see them but I can't afford it - I can't even afford to take my wife with me any more! £600 for a day out for the family is a bit much. Hence, only the really dedicated fans and rich yuppies go to see the stones nowadays...

... that is apart from Sunday at the IOW when they rocked a whole new generation.

I think the Who have got it right on this score. Regular mix of Smaller stadiums,arenas and festivals = big fan base and great atmosphere.

sc uk

>> Hallelujah my arse. <<

so if 50 euros is still too much, then hold out for 25 euro tickets. (i bet you could get them too, at some shows.)
people who pay the high prices are of course welcome to bitch about them at the same time,
but it's not a way to communicate to the management that the prices need to come down.
not paying prices you believe are too high is the way to communicate that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 17:59 by with sssoul.

In my opinion they are simply to high. Nothing justifies such prices.
They are destroying their legacy. That's what basically hurts me...


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> They are destroying their legacy. That's what
> basically hurts me...

they are destroying my wallet. thats what hurts me!

*and i'm just like that bird - singing just for you*

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Hallelujah my arse. <<
>
> so if 50 euros is still too much, then hold out
> for 25 euro tickets. (i bet you could get them
> too, at some shows.)
> people who pay the high prices are of course
> welcome to bitch about them at the same time,
> but it's not a way to communicate to the
> management that the prices need to come down.
> not paying prices you believe are too high is the
> way to communicate that.


I take it then, that it's correct to place you in the *then don't go* category.

Well i wanna go to more shows...like i used to....now since 06 i go to only one...this year only one...i wont accept that ''just dont go thing'''sorry sista....cause i wanna support my fav band also in difficult times...so i go anyway...but one show ...come on that aint enough for me....you know thase habbits dont die that easily...i wish they play ''Money''tonight and ''Down in a hole'''''Will all your money buy you.....the down and out blues..well for those Down and out R&R lers..these days the Stones give you more than JLW.....So lets play all the festivals..next year champs...and Woody....what a gent!!Keith...my fav...hope to see fire soon...but me i like those mist...never cared for it...cheers...and Jagger is the greatest frontman in the world....no doubt about it..no way....Charlie is the heart.....the only thing i like to see different, but the young ones on that island did go crazy on that one is SFTD....ahhhh it used to be such a dangerous tune...and this is now 17 years of a version....i dont like and takes a lot of space..in the show....those 69 tour version is so good and short!!! or the 75 version..for my part!!!And a Berry cover wont hurt to!!

>> I take it then, that it's correct to place you in the *then don't go* category. <<

no, you can place me in the "do what suits you, but realize that every time you pay face value
you're demonstrating that there is a market for tickets at these prices" category.
and in the "if you really don't want to communicate that then you have a number of options,
including waiting for show day and getting a cheap (if not free!) ticket at the venue" category.

i'm not being antagonistic, Logie, or saying i like the prices; i'm not even saying "don't complain";
i'm just saying that the prices will come down when there are fewer people willing to pay high prices.
that's what we're seeing at Frankfurt - the price reductions aren't a result of people complaining,
they're a result of a bunch of people simply not paying the original high prices.
you say the Frankfurt prices haven't come down enough for you - okay! but it's a step in the direction of lower prices.
so why aren't people glad to see it happening? is it because situations like Frankfurt
make people worry that the Stones will hang it up rather than price their next tour more reasonably?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 20:10 by with sssoul.

Well if it was a young band we could do that...but i wont take the risk money is useless anyway

>> i wont accept that ''just dont go thing'' sorry sista <<

i didn't say "just don't go", Rooster.
look: i am appalled at the prices for the Warsaw show being practically double what they were last year.
a lot of people are appalled. my reaction is: i haven't bought a ticket. i'm going to go to Warsaw anyway
and i feel 100% sure i will be at that show - but i am NOT going to pay what the promoter is currently asking.
it hurts me to do that, because i would love to simply rejoice that the Stones are playing my country,
and i would love to do my part to make it a beautifully well-selling show, for the glory, baby!
but i'm just @#$%& not going to pay that much, because i really feel it ain't right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 20:18 by with sssoul.

Thats the spirit!!! Sistah!! you will see the show!!I understand you now...greetings from me...and hell yeah i did..thought they rushed...and was punky in Holland....and you know i really liked it!!

You might get in for free.....I wish i was in Frankfurt!!

Wonderful shots, Paulywaul.

I am wondering about one shot in particular... Who?... Why? ...

paulywaul Wrote:

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so why aren't people glad to see it happening? is
> it because situations like Frankfurt
> make people worry that the Stones will hang it up
> rather than price their next tour more reasonably?

Interesting question! I'd suggest 'yes'. As we know the Stones are too proud to openly acknowledge fading success or even failure. So deep inside I feel that the Stones will rather hang it up than price their next tour more reasonably. After all, they don't need to do a "next tour". They don't need to take any risks anymore, the risk of failure in particular. As I see it, the Stones need a longer break from touring to create demand again if they intend to charge even the same prices again next time around, not to speak of even higher prices. But the question at stake is: Will they be able to tour in four, five or six years from now?

>> As we know the Stones are too proud to openly acknowledge fading success <<

tell ya what: how about the next time round they strip the show down to the basics
and lower the prices accordingly? no "fading success" about that - au contraire!
they'll be hailed all over the place as heroic pioneers in jacking prices way up
and in leading the way back to user-friendly pricing,
and at the same time they'll bliss out a whole lot of their fans just *totally*
and sell out every show 'til the end of time - does that sound good?


smile/sigh: we all wish the Rolling Stones were our local pub band. but they aren't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 20:48 by with sssoul.

sjs12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> I think that there is a big difference between
> "justifying" ticket prices being high and
> "wanting" them to be lower.

There certainly is. i'd fall into the latter category and definitely not the first one!!

When you justify the
> high prices on this board, people are just saying
> that the ticket prices are set based on market
> forces etc, which is true. If you are a promotor,
> why would you sell tickets at £25 each when you
> can sell a stadium at £150 each?

Dont agree that its "market forces" setting them. Its the "getting away with as much as you can" mentality that sets them. There are several already filthy rich major big-name acts who COULD charge more than they currently do, but choose not to because they know that above a certain amount theyre simply taking the piss. Thats the difference.


Even if you sell
> tickets at 5 times value and half the number of
> ticket sales, you still make more profit, but for
> less work! The fact that people are then
> "willing" to pay these prices does not mean that
> they "want" to pay those prices.

When youre worth a billion dollars, splitting hairs and being concerned about whether your tour makes a profit of $50 million or $200 million shouldnt really be a dilemma. The decision is going to make absolutely ZERO difference to your lifestyle. No one's expecting them to do it at a loss or for next to no profit, but if Mick Jagger makes $1 profit from this tour or makes $100 million profit, will he notice the difference? Of course he wont - which begs the question, whats the point?

However, it makes a hell of a lot of difference to the lifestyle of the people who are deciding whether or not to buy a ticket.

It is these two
> competing influences that has always been the
> deciding factor in setting ticket prices, and
> explains why stones tickets have always been the
> most expensive tickets in town - the demand is so
> high.

Well..the supply and demand difference is not what it was, so I'm not so sure about that.
>
> Now none of this means that I support high ticket
> prices because I do not and never have. I have
> always been passionate about having lower prices
> and standing room gigs in order to widen the fan
> base. There are some people on here though (Debra
> for example) who actually prefer to have seated
> shows and higher ticket prices because they have
> lots of money and can afford to get lots of good
> seats at lots of shows. I disagree but have to
> respect their opinion.

Agree 100%. There should always be a facility for people who for their own reasons choose to sit


On the other hand, I still
> don't see why seated shows should be forced on
> everyone. Why not have seating in the stalls and
> standing on the pitch - best of both worlds, you
> would have thought.

well..thats another issue. theyre not forced on 'everyone', theyre forced on everyone in certain markets. Firstly it was just the US, then it was the UK too, now its Germany and parts of Scandinavia. So, basically if the fanbase is in whats deemed by the Stones and their management to be in a 'wealthier' part of the world, you're not given the choice of sitting or standing, you're given the seated option only as an excuse to double the average prices.


>
> My argument for cheaper ticket prices and standing
> room at gigs is actually based on attracting a
> different (younger and probably poorer) fan base
> and therefore enhancing the band's legacy.

Agree 100%. Its what Ive argued for some time. Cant be underestimated how 8 years between albums has hurt the bands commercial standing as far as how their new material gets promoted on radio and TV. Eight years to many of the audience they played to and won over on Sunday is almost half a lifetime. Its as if the Stones have come from another world. In that eight year period, theyve priced that age group out of their shows. Thats a huge loss. I go to see Bob Dylan almost as much as I see the Stones and even though Dylan isnt as commercially sounding an artist as the Stones are, even though his lives shows are something of an acquired taste to the mainstream audience and even though his audiences are significantly smaller, the % of fans at HIS shows that are under 30 or 40 is DEFINITELY higher than that at the average Stones show. Simple reason for that is that at £35-40 a ticket theyre affordable for everyone.

In
> addition, it would be more fun for us fans at
> gigs! How many of us would love to be able to
> take along a freind who is a casual fan "waiting
> to be converted" but who just won't or can't
> afford to pay £150 for one gig when that is maybe
> a weeks rent! I'd love to take my kids to see
> them but I can't afford it - I can't even afford
> to take my wife with me any more! £600 for a day
> out for the family is a bit much. Hence, only the
> really dedicated fans and rich yuppies go to see
> the stones nowadays...

well..thats it in a nutshell. Up until 1999, if I went to see the Stones I'd drag along three or four fans who maybe werent huge fans but who DID like the band and so, paying £30-40 for a ticket wasnt that much to ask for a night out. Nowadays, I simply wouldnt ask anyone who wasnt a hardcore fan if they fancied going. They'd shit a brick when confronted with the prices.


>
> ... that is apart from Sunday at the IOW when they
> rocked a whole new generation.


..who had paid less for a 3-day ticket to see about 25 bands as Stones fans have been asked to pay for a mediocre ticket at the 02. Therein lies the problem.

retired_dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so why aren't people glad to see it happening?
> is
> > it because situations like Frankfurt
> > make people worry that the Stones will hang it
> up
> > rather than price their next tour more
> reasonably?
>
> Interesting question! I'd suggest 'yes'. As we
> know the Stones are too proud to openly
> acknowledge fading success or even failure. So
> deep inside I feel that the Stones will rather
> hang it up than price their next tour more
> reasonably. After all, they don't need to do a
> "next tour". They don't need to take any risks
> anymore, the risk of failure in particular. As I
> see it, the Stones need a longer break from
> touring to create demand again if they intend to
> charge even the same prices again next time
> around, not to speak of even higher prices. But
> the question at stake is: Will they be able to
> tour in four, five or six years from now?


I'd agree with that - and to answer your final question, probably not, unfortunately.

The anger that is building up in me is mainly directed at Cohl. I don't know his background, but he was very clever when he started with the Stones. Then he forgot something important - maximizing profits is by far not everything - and that what makes him a bad manager again...Why it worked until now with those high prices is because the Stones are a service that is not substitutable to many. They are the biggest Rock and Roll band and people will pay insane prices to see them. What he forgets is that they are not a multinational company with a monopoly (or oligopoly - let's say U2 and some others are in as well), but they are a band with a history and with a reputation. What he is doing now with those ticket prices, the simply awful marketing, is ruining the reputation. He already pretty much ruined it. And it seems the Stones who definitely know about the prices either don't recognize it or they don't care...


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

I WAASN'T THERE , AND THE WONDERFUL PHOTOS THAT WERE POSTED HERE,FOR A LIL WHILE BROUGHT ME THERE. I THANK YOU ALL
BYE

schillid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonderful shots, Paulywaul.
>
> I am wondering about one shot in particular...
> Who?... Why? ...
>
> paulywaul Wrote:
> [i61.photobucket.com]
> ones%20Isle%20of%20Wight/Beastandyoungsters2.jpg

Schillid ... these are the youngsters that were directly behind Beast, BarRoomQueen and myself down there at front of stage. We spoke to them for a few minutes after the Stones finished, asking them what they thought etc etc. I just thought it would be fun to grab a picture or two. It seemed only logical to make sure the new IORR T shirt was in there, because apart from anything else ... I told them that if they wanted a copy of the picture, all they had to do was go to www.iorr.org and find the relevant thread on the Tell Me message board. For all I know, some of them will have read this thread and seen themselves in the picture(s) by now. In case you don't know what she looks like, that's Beast with the hat on in the middle of the group, holding up the T-shirt.

Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What he is doing now with those ticket prices, the simply awful marketing, is
> ruining the reputation. He already pretty much ruined it.

Great analysis! And absolutely true. In former times, when a Stones tour was announced, it was THE 'talk of the town' amongst Stones fans and music lovers who had an affection for their music: "Stones on tour: I'll go to see them in ...., ...., ....., where do you go? Can we go together?". This time, the situation was completely different: "Stones on tour? Naaah, I don't go. Always the same, and much too expensive!". There now is a desert where once there was a sea.......!


> And it seems the Stones who definitely know about the prices either don't recognize it or they don't care...

One tends to think that they are too clever to not recognizing it....which of course means that they obviously don't care. Not a good sign.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-13 22:00 by retired_dog.

beautiful! thank you Roby