sorry if this song has been covered in depth before, but im always looking for new opinions.

to me this is one of the ultimate classics and very underrated songs of all times, it gathers momentum and gets better as it goes on, with the band in excellent form and jagger at his best ever.

i have this image of hyde park, warm weather, sunshine and this song closing the famous "stones in the park 1969 concert" i know however they have never done this live and probably never will, which is a shame.

it is a song from the superb beggers banquet album which conjurs up many great stones images of a moment in thier history.

it would have been a superb atmosphere to have this song at hyde park concert, anywhere else woudnt have been the same.

what do we all think of this song and will the stones ever do it live.

I love this song...i know some on board love it too...the ending part those guitars that is just magic pure southern magic.

Well i do not think they will do this im afraid.

It is a fantastic song, and the 14 takes (mostly instrumental) from the Satanic Boxed sets really show how it developed.

It is thoroughly Dylan-esque; inspired, I'm sure, from the thin wild mercury sounds of "Blonde On Blonde"(and if the Stones caught any of Dylan's '66 shows with "Tell Me Mama") Even in 1969 Dylan and B On B still reverberated with Jagger a la his "Pledging My Time" segue in "It Hurts Me Too."

Why never live?

Perhaps simply put on the shelf with "Who's Been Sleeping Here?" as songs/lyrics that can't lastingly translate and transcend their time/era like a "Street Fighting Man" or "Sympathy For The Devil."

Or lost in the shuffle of 67-68 when the band was changing and in flux.

Or simply a little too derivative of Dylan and slightly naive/embarrassing when looked back on with a few years passing (at least in the mind/feelings of Mick or the band, I don't feel that way personally).

It's their art, they decide which ones they like to show and which ones they think are not so good, or amateur, or too-derivative or whatever.

Some paintings get put in museums
or textbooks
some, in galleries
or given to freinds
others
stay in the basement.

J

One thing we have argued about is if that is Keith on slide and IMO it is. What I really love in this tune is the acoustic guitar in the left channel. It's the one opposite the slide and comes in a littel later. It is just recorded so well and strummed so heartily. And then the organ; is the organ the only instrument that comes in later on?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

The CD full of outtakes from this session reveals it is Keith on slide, Bill on bass, Charlie on drums, Nicky Hopkins on piano with Mick supplying guide vocals and acoustic guitar(mostly off mic).

Keith's attempts at slide are pretty funny to start with. I'm pretty certain Keith would have overdubbed the acoustic guitar which we hear on the released version.

There isn't any organ on the track, that whining sound is most likely Brian playing some form of woodwind instrument.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-28 20:14 by His Majesty.

Yes IMo that is definetly Keith on O/D acoustic guitar. Too much authority and sus4 chords to be early-guitar Jagger.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes IMo that is definetly Keith on O/D acoustic
> guitar. Too much authority and sus4 chords to be
> early-guitar Jagger.

At the very start of take 3 the acoustic is heard prominently in the mix then taken out. It sounds like Mick playing much like he does in the One Plus One film, kind of ragged strumming with the guitar in standard tuning.

The released version has the acoustic tuned to open E(or open D with capo at the 2nd fret).

Jigsaw Puzzle is cool. It is the precurser to the song Let It Bleed.


Its a prototype for what was to come.

the same way Live with me was a prototype for the sticky fingers/exile stuff which included brass.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-28 21:55 by ryanpow.

Majsty, which outtake boot is "Jigsaw" on?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Majsty, which outtake boot is "Jigsaw" on?

There's a whole CD of a Jigsaw Puzzle session from takes 1 - 14 included as part of the two volume Satanic Sessions box sets. Obviously the other 7 discs cover sessions from 1967, but for some reason they included the March 1968 Jigsaw Puzzle disc.

I really wish they'd follow it up with Beggars Banquet era box sets as well!

Click this link and scroll down for info on the box sets: [www.rollingstonesnet.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-28 23:18 by His Majesty.

how would i go about obtaining the satanic box set.

I just bought both sets very recently through the buy/sell/trade forum here. I saw a set on ebay last year or so, sold for a small fortune!!! :-()

The Satanic album could have been so much better if they'd followed through with some of the works in progress on these discs!

I also like this song very much. It's one of the reasons why Beggar's is my favorite Stones album. I like the vocals and the lyrics. I would love to hear it live,but probably not. This and Winter would make a great 2 song concert.

Love the description of the band.

"No Anchovies, Please"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 02:17 by Elmo Lewis.

Unless I'm mistaken...
I think it's the Stones' only
auotbiographical lyric...

Oh the singer, he looks angry
At being thrown to the lions
And the bass player, he looks nervous
About the girls outside
And the drummer, he's so shattered
Trying to keep on time
And the guitar players look damaged
They've been outcasts all thier lives

"I'm so sick and tired of hanging around with dogs like you
who'd tell me all those lies make me think they're true
I've heard one or two they were all about you"

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Well the ballrooms and smelly bordellos
And dressing rooms filled with parasites.
On stage the band has got problems,
Theyre a bag of nerves on first night
....
And his coat is torn and frayed,
Its seen much better days.
Just as long as the guitar plays
Let it steal your heart away,
Let it steal your heart away

Well...
Then many lyricss are autobiographical...
Like "I can't get no satisfaction" or "I'm Jumping Jack Flash..."

I just mean that Jigsaw Puzzle's lyric
refers to a five-piece pand.

Always loved this one.

His Majesty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CD full of outtakes from this session reveals
> it is Keith on slide

How do you know? What outtakes do you speak of? For several years, it was widely believed that the slide was played by Brian Jones. Suddenly, in recent years, people want to believe it's Keith playing the slide. But I don't think it's Keith. It don't sound like any of Keith's other subsequent slide efforts. If Keith had indeed played the slide part, JSP would have been played live by now. But it's been shelved eternally because Brian was the one who played the slide. The Stones shun all songs in which Brian played a dominant part, such as Paint It, Black, The Last Time, Ruby Tuesday, and Under My Thumb, refusing to play them much on tour. If you listen closely to the slide part on JSP, it contains all the trademark Brian qualities such as the strummed bass notes followed by the high sceetching notes, the little deviated run during the fade, etc. It's Brian all the way!

Yeah Majesty, I knew I had that outtake somewhere. The Satanic Box Set. IMO that is a must have because it shows the Stones at work 67 style and it is the only session outtake really from Satanic.
What I would love is for someone to edit it down to one solid disc instead of 8.

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

Killer bass/drum groove on this track. The drums, especially, are beautifully recorded.

neptune Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His Majesty Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > The Stones shun all songs in which Brian played a
> dominant part, such as Paint It, Black, The Last
> Time, Ruby Tuesday, and Under My Thumb, refusing
> to play them much on tour.

With the exception of The Last Time I saw all of these songs on the A Bigger Bang tour.

yeah - The Last Time is the only one of those that could be considered an in-concert rarity
and it was in heavy rotation in 97/98, so ... come on, neptune, you can do better than that!

Neptune, you're loyalty to Brian is nice, I too am a big fan of the great musical contributions that he brought to the stones. He is a BIG influence on my approach to music as a player!

However, the CD of 14 takes clearly shows that Keith is playing the slide part! If there were any indication that it was Brian I would say so, shout it from the hills even, because it's a great part!

My question to you is, do you like the slide for what it brings to the song, or because you believe Brian played it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 13:23 by His Majesty.

neptune Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His Majesty Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The CD full of outtakes from this session
> reveals
> > it is Keith on slide
>
> How do you know? What outtakes do you speak of?
> For several years, it was widely believed that the
> slide was played by Brian Jones. Suddenly, in
> recent years, people want to believe it's Keith
> playing the slide. But I don't think it's Keith.
> It don't sound like any of Keith's other
> subsequent slide efforts. If Keith had indeed
> played the slide part, JSP would have been played
> live by now. But it's been shelved eternally
> because Brian was the one who played the slide.
> The Stones shun all songs in which Brian played a
> dominant part, such as Paint It, Black, The Last
> Time, Ruby Tuesday, and Under My Thumb, refusing
> to play them much on tour. If you listen closely
> to the slide part on JSP, it contains all the
> trademark Brian qualities such as the strummed
> bass notes followed by the high sceetching notes,
> the little deviated run during the fade, etc.
> It's Brian all the way!

Neptune, I admire your dedication to the work of Brian, I really do. But, as several people like His Majesty and me have stated various times on this board: it truly is Keith. Aside from the fact that it is completely Keith's style (and completely NOT Brian's style), we have a dozen outtakes as proof, as well as remarks by Wyman, Glyn Johns and Jimmy Miller.

The remark that the Stones do songs with a large Brian Jones input is a strange remark, as a very large part of the set lists of the last 20 years consists of "Brian" songs like 2000 Light years, Ruby Tuesday, Paint it Black, SFM and many more.

Personally I think the Stones won't do Jigsaw because the song is a drag to perform live. It is a great studio song, but the repetitiveness of the chord structure makes the song "go nowhere" at all. There's no catchy bridge to go to. The key point of the song is the delivery of the vocals and lyrics and personally I think this is something you won't be able to deliver live.

I think the slide guitar is the least of the problems, as Wood always has been a very good slide player, especially in open E. Without a doubt Wood can do a great slide part on this song.

Mathijs

There's no catchy bridge to go to ?

The whole song for me is a catchy bridge.

__________________________




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-04-29 19:04 by NICOS.

The slide is obviously Keith. We had this argument months ago. Are we going to start this up again?

"...no longer shall you trudge 'cross my peaceful mind."

No, the slide is BRIAN JONES!

Recorded March 25, 1968. Released on Beggars Banquet in '68.
Vocal: Mick Jagger Acoustic Guitar: Keith Richards Electric Slide Guitar(Maybe some Pedal Steel Guitar): Brian Jones Mellotron: Brian Jones Drums: Charlie Watts Bass: Bill Wyman Piano: Nicky Hopkins

JR