i have 'sort of' played drums for a while now, but got the needed pieces to complete my kit today for christmas. i have been hanging around and want to learn the beats that charlie plays. are there any instructional videos of charlie teaching his techniques? or do i have to watch and listen carefully on ladies and gentlemen?

Hej

I'm a professional drummer...and I can tell you...Charlie doesn't use techniques! With all respect to the man (he's THE man to play drums for the Stones, and I love him a lot) but his drumming skills suck! He can't hit the Hi-Hat and snare on 2 and 4 together....though....There is nobody that fits better with the stones then Charlie!

"all the rum i want to drink it, and all the whisky too!"

DVD from RS com has Charlie talking about his drums...



ROCKMAN

Send me a mail on baskol@msn.com and I wil tell you how to play if you like!

"all the rum i want to drink it, and all the whisky too!"

Charlie said he learned how to play by looking at others, not by taking lessons.

There is absolutely no doubt that Charlie's techniques as a drummer are far from conventional. I believe it's his little idiosyncrasies that makes him unique & the absolute perfect drummer for the Stones. You have to admit he is solid as a rock, a veritable metronome. Who could possibly imagine another drummer with the Stones. Monsters like Neil Pert, John Bonham, Keith Moon & the like, that on paper have much better chops than Charlie, would not fit like the proverbial glove as "The Man" does. Sorta like Ringo with the Beatles. Monster chops as a drummer? I don't think so. HELLO!!!! But the best drummer suited for the Beatles? A resounding YES!!! So Charlie has definitely carved his way into the Rock Drummer Hall of Fame & it's because of his quirky way of drumming that he will be there.

I play drums and Charlie is my favorite drummer. I've never seen a video of Charlie demonstrating how he plays drums, sorry. In fact, I can imagine someone asking Charlie to do that and he would probably giggle and say no thanks.

There are lots of good videos out there and even some free ones on the web. I'd encourage you to check those out to get started with. You might want to take a few lessons from a local drummer to get started with also. So much of drumming is creating habits and if you start with some bad ones, it's very hard to unlearn them. Go to a local club, find a drummer that you like, and then during a break ask him if you could pay him for a few lessons.

If you'd like to discuss this further, just let me know.

Good luck!
Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

Sorry but I have to take issue with that 2 and 4 thing on the high hat. Up until about 1980, Charlie played the 2 and 4 on the high hat. He made a conscious decision to stop doing that. As far as I know, he's the only guy that plays that way although I'm sure there must be someone else that does it. I give Charlie a lot of credit for doing this. To me, the songs from 1980 on I'll have a different feel because of this. Start Me Up is the first example and seems most noticeable to me. If you look at some of the videos of Charlie playing before 1980, you'll notice he played 2 and 4. After about 1980, not anymore. Of course, this just applies to the hats, when he plays the ride he uses the typical pattern.

Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

anyone care to expalin what playing the 2 nd the 4 on the hi hat means???

HN, count the beats to, say, "Miss You" or "Satisfaction". Hear the steady 1, 2 ,3, 4 pattern. On MY, it's the bass drum - on "Satisfaction", it's the snare. What's being discussed is Charlie's habit of no longer hitting the hi-hat on all four beat - lifting his hand on the 2 and 4 beat. You can see/hear it in a number of songs. Hope that helps.

Scotty



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-26 22:11 by Elmo Lewis.

I always thought he only skips the 4, not the 2. I'll have a closer look. The reason he does it presumably is because he than has more room to swing his left hand to hit the snare even harder.

I'm not a drummer, but do a lot of 'airdrumming'. Funny thing is I even have the habit to skip the 4 when I play the airdrums.

as for the "professional" drummers comment...............ive been playing all over the country for 25 years and any drummer worth a @#$%& understands that watts is one of the greatest drummers ever.........usually the guys who say charlie sucks are pompous asses who cant play with any feel or style........"charlie sucks"......what an ignorant thing for a so-called 'drummer' to say



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-27 07:55 by sugarblue.

if you want proof of my skills to back it up go to www.myspace.com/gregorynash

Yeah, I have noticed that Charlie stops his other hand when he hits the snare.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-27 11:22 by it's_all_wrong.

Charlie stops his hi-hat hand every time is left hand hits the snare. With the Stones this means on the 4 most of the time, but not always. He started doing this already in 1972, but ever since 1982 it really is obvious. Charlie states it's an unconcious thing, but fact is that several jazz drummers use this as a technique to get some swing in the drumming.

Further, someone stated that Charlie is like a metronome. The fact is that Charlie is absolutely not like a metronome and therefore he is the best drummer for the Stones -in fact, Charlie is what made the Stones. Without Charlie Keith would never have developed his awkward timing. Metronomes are steady drummers who are center of the music, and all other mucisians follow the drummer. With the Stones they all follow Keith. At least, this is how they played until the early 90's. Charlie's style has changed, and since Bill left Keith is not the leader anymore, they all follow Charlie and Chuck Leavell, even Keith.

And personally I think Charlie is a fairly technical drummer. He is not one to hold several rythms down at the same moment, but especially his snare rolls are highly skilled and not easy to execute.

Mathijs

Well, he certainly gets a lovely sound when he hits that snare.

The metronome analogy is not a negative! Metronomes are steady, never failing, that is the implication. I guess some may interpret that as another way of saying BORING! NOT SO! Charlie is not a bore, yet he is not one to miss a beat. I tend to disagree with Mathijis when he says the band " always" followed Keith until the 90's; I think they followed Charlie and Bill until Bill left and now they follow Charlie and Chuck.

Long time ago I used to be a drummer...Charlie was and is my fav drummer.

Debra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The metronome analogy is not a negative!
> Metronomes are steady, never failing, that is the
> implication. I guess some may interpret that as
> another way of saying BORING! NOT SO! Charlie is
> not a bore, yet he is not one to miss a beat. I
> tend to disagree with Mathijis when he says the
> band " always" followed Keith until the 90's; I
> think they followed Charlie and Bill until Bill
> left and now they follow Charlie and Chuck.

I personnaly think that Charlie's way of drumming until 1982 was that he was constantly missing the beat, and needed to fix the mistake by drum fills. Listen to All Down the Line from '75 or 78 for example. Charlie is constantly lagging behind or going to fast, and he constantly needs to adjust. This style of drumming is typical for the very good jazz drummers, and is what gives it this encredible dance and swing feel. Sway is another good example. Every drum fill is just a tad too slow or too fast, Charlie pulls and pushes, and it's encredibly good.

Mathijs

It's the combination of Charlie's and Keith's idiosyncratic timing that gives the unique swing and feel to the band. Simple as that.
It has changed a little since Bill departed and chuck's influence has grown...but the same tensions are still created as the beat is pushed one way and pulled the other.

[And even now, when Keith stands in front of the drum riser and fixes that stare..I'd defy anybody not to follow him ;^) ]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-28 16:11 by Spud.

Ok I don't play drums on any level (only guitar), but I can assure you Charlie is a fantastic drummer. He has an incredible feel for timing.
The Stones have always been a band with signature intro's to songs. Ofcourse a lot of that comes from Keith, but just spin the classic Stones albums and listen how Charlie comes in. It's a success everytime.

To say Charlie's technical skills suck is just a joke. If you rate anyone within the Stones on general, technical skills, they wouldn't be in any top ten. Charlie has developed his own technique and he knows how to use it. I'd say Charlie is one of the best musicians in the business.

smile: yeah, even in the FF documentary Charlie says "Keith is the groove that you follow."
Bill also said that he followed Charlie and Charlie followed Keith, which was what he felt
gave the Stones their inimitable sound.

stonedstone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hej
>
> I'm a professional drummer...and I can tell
> you...Charlie doesn't use techniques! With all
> respect to the man (he's THE man to play drums for
> the Stones, and I love him a lot) but his drumming
> skills suck! He can't hit the Hi-Hat and snare on
> 2 and 4 together....though....There is nobody that
> fits better with the stones then Charlie!


I play the drums also, and i dont know why he plays that way either, HOWEVER, if you look at old footage of him he didnt play that way at one time, and he would even put some nice rolls in there as well from time to time. So, i think he is capable of doing that, i just think he just keeps the beat and no frills added.

stonesriff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I play the drums also, and i dont know why he
> plays that way either

Because that way he adds groove to his drumming, simple as that!

Just try playing a simple pattern, let's say the intro to Honky Tonk Women, first the way you think it is "supposed" to be played and then the way Charlie plays it.

You will easily see that the "tension" created by what the ear expects to hear and does not hear is one of those little things that build the Stones groove.

C

The terms "Charlie Watts" and "sucks" should not even be in the same book,let the same sentence.Mr. Watts in no way sucks!He is the greatest.

Pleased to meet you......

Charlie's style has certainly changed over the years. If you look at some of the earliest pics, you can notice that Charlie used to play with a matched grip but now he plays with a traditional grip.

In most bands the bass and drums lock in to keep a steady beat. I suspect the Stones may have started out that way but with all the screaming in the early days it was probably easier for Charlie to hear and follow Keith and that my be how that started.

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

This is an interview with Charlie from Modern Drummer Feb, 1990



One thing [Jim] Keltner pointed out to Charlie was his
habit of coming off the hi-hat with his right hand
whenever he would hit a backbeat with his left. "I was
never consious of it until Jim mentioned it," Charlie
comments. "But I do it a lot. I've noticed it on
videos, and it actually annoys me to see myself doing
it. It really comes, I think, from coming down heavy
on the backbeat. I don't use that [matched] grip that
Ringo uses. I did for a few years, because I thought
it was popular. But then I was told to go back to the
other way by Ian Stewart, who used to set up my drums.
He virtually ordered me to go back to what he called
'the proper way of playing'" Charlie laughs. "So I
went back to the military grip, and I really do prefer
it, but because of the amount you ride on the hi-hat,
I suppose I got into the habit of pulling the other
stick out of the way to get a louder sound.

"I've never consiously done it, but a lot of times
when we make a record I am consiously _not_ doing it,
because sometimes you hear the beat go 'di-dit,
di-dit'" Charlie says, tapping out notes that
areslightly squeezed together. "That works on some
things, but other times you need it perfectly even
because the microphone records everything in such a
nit-picky way". [Modern Drummer, Feb. 1990]

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

I am not a drummer but I find it hard to imagine that the rhythm section in the Stones, base and drums, FOLLOW the guitar player! My boyfriend IS a professional drummer but is not a big Stones fan so he is not an expert on our boys! He did say, however that at no time, in any of his bands, did he EVER follow the lead of the guitar players. Please explain.

>> Please explain <<

yes, it is highly unusual for the drummer to follow the guitarist - that's what Bill meant when he said
it's what gives the Stones their inimitable sound. i'll see if i can find the exact quote.
Charlie's said that in the early days he couldn't hear anything but Keith; Bill's said that when Keith is playing
"you HAVE to follow him - there's nothing else you can do."

there are a couple of references to this phenomenon on this page: [www.timeisonourside.com]
but i'll keep looking for the longer quote from Bill.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-29 02:00 by with sssoul.

found it! at [www.timeisonourside.com]:

[What makes the Stones' sound so unique and instantly recognizable is] something I've tried to analyze with a lot of people. We have a very tight sound for a band that swings, but in amongst that tight sound, it's very ragged as well. Leon Russell and I finally came up with a theory that goes something like this: Every rock and roll band follows the drummer, right? If the drummer slows down, the band slows down with him or speeds up when he does. That's just the way it works - except for our band. Our band does not follow the drummer; our drummer follows the rhythm guitarist, who is Keith Richards ... Immediately you've got something like a 1/100th of second delay between the guitar and Charlie's lovely drumming. Now, I'm not putting down Charlie in any way for doing this, but onstage you have to follow Keith. You have no way of NOT following him. You know there's no rigorous twelve bars and then we break and do that bit and then we come in with four more bars and then Mick does his part - it doesn't work like that. The tune is basically worked out, but it changes all the time; it's very loose. So with Charlie following Keith, you have that very minute delay. Add to that the fact that I've always been able to pick up chord structures very quickly, so I tend to anticipate a bit because I kind of know what Keith's going to do ... So I tend to anticipate the change, and that puts me that split second ahead of Keith. When you actually hear that, it seems to just pulse. You know it's tight because we're all making stops and starts and it is in time - but it isn't as well. That's what we think is the reason for our sound, apart from our style. Everyone thinks, Oh, Rolling Stones as soon as they hear one of our fast tunes ... (T)he net result is that loose type of pulse that goes between Keith, Charlie, and me.
- Bill Wyman, 1978