PMK -

Yeah Brussels hit me in a similiar fashion when I 1st heard it. I had been hearing that Taylor was being featured more & more in the Stones sound around
late 72 / 73. My friends and I burned so many cassette's from that boot!!!
everyone had to have one for their auto..

good memories!!!

MLC

A superb thread, and some equally great postings…

I was fortunate enough to have attended the Wembley, September 9th show, as well as the first of the two Manchester gigs a couple of days later, and regard them to this day, as two of the finest concerts that I have ever seen. However, in keeping within the spirit of bassplayer’s attempt at deconstructing the ’73 tour, there’ll be no histrionics here. I will try and be as critical and objective as possible.

My first recollection of that Wembley Empire Pool gig was the unbelievable air of excitement and expectation outside the venue itself, and even with Billy Preston’s support spot well under way, the number of people looking for tickets, must surely have been in the thousands. The word had clearly got out that this was something to behold, and those wanting a last minute piece of the action were no doubt swelled further by the droves of awestruck, disbelieving souls who had come back for more of the same.

Catching the last few songs from Billy Preston’s set, it’s worth recalling that in terms of getting a crowd off its collective feet and creating an atmosphere, there has probably been no better warm-up artiste ever, and to his eternal credit, he worked that audience as impressively as anyone I’d ever seen before, or have witnessed since (Springsteen included).

In contrast to Preston’s cheerful, animated personae, the Stones onstage presence at that time seemed somewhat dark and menacing; almost like they had come along for some serious business and were not going to be distracted from getting on with it. They looked like they were the coolest guys on the planet. They probably WERE the coolest guys on the planet.

It’s worth pointing out at this stage, that audiences back in the early seventies were very much different, behaviour wise, from what we have become accustomed to at modern day gigs, and the Stones crowd on this particular night were certainly no exception to that rule. It was possible to count on two hands, the number of people who would be out of their seats at any one time, while the remainder sat back, listening intently to the incredible musicianship on offer, and applauding (almost jazz-like) at the conclusion of every guitar solo. It’s fair to say that we were all well and truly mesmerised by the performance that night, but almost to the point where people couldn’t quite get their heads round it. It sounded like nothing from the Ya Yas era, yet despite featuring an impressive brass section, was far too guitar laden to have any of the feel of Exile. This was something else altogether, and it was incredible. Almost like they’d moved into brand new territory, and shifted up a gear without any advance warning.

More to the point, Mick Taylor’s performance that night was, without any exaggeration, simply out of this world, and even from my own relatively poor vantage position towards the back of the arena, there was an impression that his guitar playing was very much a deliberately prominent “feature” of the sound, and as such, rightly turned up in the mix. However, the assertion that some of his soloing may have been more down to boredom as opposed to creativity, is not something that I would subscribe to personally. This was a time remember, when axemen such as Page, Gallagher, Santana etc. ruled the world, and any band that was unable to feature complex guitar solos in its live performances, was an act not to be taken seriously.

Should I have needed any confirmation that THIS was the greatest living band on the planet, at the peak of their pre-eminence, then the Manchester show provided it in abundance. Despite being technically flawed in many respects, this seemed a much more powerful performance than the Wembley show, and being away from the spotlight of the capital city, there was a sense that the band were more relaxed and willing to let rip, so to speak. The fact that they chose to do so in such a small theatre with probably no more than 1500 seats, made it even more impressive, and for me personally, from my seat in the sixth row, this was pure heaven.

Interestingly, I remember Nick Kent of the NME, recalling how empty he felt after the 1973 shows were finished, much of it down to the fact that he had nothing on record to match what he had heard during those incredible performances. He wasn’t the only one, and it would be a year before I got my hands on an audience recording of the Saturday night Wembley show, and a further two after that, before Nasty Music arrived at my door.

Do the radio mixes do justice to the concerts? In parts certainly, although as mentioned in an earlier post, The Stars in the Sky They Never Lie probably provides a more realistic impression, giving more prominence to the brass section, and to Billy Preston’s involvement. As such, that album provides a bolder and more rugged edge than the sometimes too-refined FM-friendly mix of Nasty Music and Brussels Affair.

As brilliant as Mick Taylor was with the Stones however, it could reasonably be argued that had he remained with the band, his virtuoso style of playing might have actually hindered their progression towards formulating their more consumer-friendly, one-size-fits-all stage production that we still see today. Conversely, it could be contested that in choosing to venture down such a road towards stadium tours and commercial mass market appeal, the Rolling Stones lost much of the musical and artistic credibility that Taylor had played such a significant part in helping them to establish.

Europe 1973...Superseded, but never bettered.

What a great read! Truely one of those posts that make this board a pleasure to be a part of! Thanks!

This is definitely good reading. Thanks to all of you!

One of the great threads here. Thank you gentlemen for all the insightful comments. A delight to read.

Yes, some great reading here... that excites my curiosity to no little proportions!

Anyone of you can tell me of the best, free source to get that "Brussels Affair" or something... I mean the best sounding concert from that european '73 tour?

I am a near-idiot at those things...

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a great read! Truely one of those posts that
> make this board a pleasure to be a part of!
> Thanks!


I could not say more. What a pleasure. Thanks.

yeah Wow logie. So well written....who could follow that??

Great opinions and perspectives. What a joy to read.

I was at the New York MSG show in June 1972 - and I was completely mesmerized. The balance between rhythm and lead on that tour was absolute transcendent perfection. Never before nor since have I heard such a lethal one/two-rhythm/lead guitar punch. Taylor's solos were sublime - almost overwhelming in their fluidity and beauty. Richard's rhythm salvos were the foundation upon which this magnificent guitar-driven edifice was built, and his occasional Berry-type leads were bolo punches to the gut that left one breathless.

I did not attend any of the Europe 1973 shows...to my regret. I was too young to travel alone. But with the privilege of having many bootlegs in my collection [and in no small part due to the kindness and comradeship of the posters of IORR on the Hot Stuff section] I have been able to gather a good compilation of Europe 1973 shows...and there are some interesting discoveries to be made, from my limited perspective.

Firstly, in 1972 there seemed to be more convergence between the two guitarists. Taylor pushed Richards with his virtuoso lead work, and Keef - in order to survive in the sound mix, pushed back with his best rhythm work ever. Whenever Taylor moved up a notch, Keef upped the ante with tempo or pacing. It was sublime. Taylor's work was awesome, but also restrained to a point. Hear his work on Love in Vain or YCAGWYW from 1972 and one's jaw drops.

It is clear to me that Taylor was a slightly different player in 1973 than in 1972. The restraint is partly gone. And some of his soloing has a less fluid and more aggressive sound. The again, his work on songs like Gimme Shelter in 1973 leave one gasping for air. But the balance seems to be a bit off. Keef's songs on this tour [where he takes the lead guitar part] are mostly missing. He is primarily relegated to rhythm. The best rhythm guitar ever, to be sure, but he's more in the background and Taylor is more dominating. And so Keef pushes back with insane tempos. How much longer could this go on? The tension is palpable.

Drugs had begun to take more of an effect on Taylor's life and work in 1973. Frustration at lack of recognition for his contributions within the band surely played a role in his mounting disappointment and growing emotional distance. These frustrations would be exacerbated during the upcoming recording for the It's Only Rock And Roll album.

On Keef's part...I'm sure he began to feel a bit marginalized. He was in a Horse haze a lot of the time, and Jagger had begun to write with and depend on Taylor. Perhaps Keef had a fleeting premonition that he was gong down Brian's sorry road? I know tensions grew exponentially during the recordings for It's Only Rock And Roll between the two guitarists. Was Keef feeling more and more threatened by Taylor's surging contributions and musical dominance? Perhaps.

My one great regret is that the sound of these tours was never properly captured on record. By this I do not mean only on a live album - though that would have been a God-send. I mean as well on a proper album of new material. The live sound of the 1972/73 Stones is in my opinion Rock and Roll at its' Zenith. Yet this was never properly caught on record.

It is unimaginable to me that the greatest Rock and Roll Band ever does not have an official live document for the greatest tours ever in the history of rock music. To thinks that there is a live document to basically every tour since 1966 to the present available to the casual fan...and the only missing link in this long chain of live recordings is simply their greatest work ever. Incredible. Preposterous.

It is equally despairing to me that this sound was never caught on record with new material. The sound they exhibited on stage in this era was certainly not the sound of Exile. Nor was it the sound of Goat Head's Soup...far from it. Nor was it to be found on the It's Only Rock And Roll album. The live sound of this band during this era is the apogee of a musical genre and it has never been truly represented in all it's raunch and menace and decadent glory on a proper release. Heartbreaking for a devoted fan.

There would be other high-points to follow for the Stones, to be sure. But this point of apotheosis that was attained in 1972 and 1973 would never be approached again. And the 1973 tour holds all the secrets and indications and explanations and justifications as to why this was to be. I assuage my regret at missing these transcendent shows by enjoying them on bootleg. And dreaming of a band that once changed the world every night they stepped on stage...

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

BRAVO Turd!!!

Rockman Wrote:
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> OK
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> IMMERBOY%202/GLIMMERBOY%203/73somewhere.jpg
> Somewhere in 73



Yeah, she said she liked the way I held the harmonica....

Yeah a very good thread but may I eat a peanut now???

OK again.......


Wembley 1973 - Daily Mail archives



ROCKMAN

Is Mick Taylor wearing as wig? Cheers Rockman...all right!!?

I dunno about Taylor but that
Jaggs Boy is wearing his flyin' boots........



ROCKMAN

Yes, I was there Sept 8th '73.

Nobody believed Taylor was bored. Yes, he was prominent. But equally unescapable was Keith's scything rhythm. It was a not a 'dichotomy'. It was sonic hand-in-glove combative mayhem. And it was totally united into one whole by the bass drum combo. Jagger did not need to 'act. He was pushed and inspired. So was Charlie really.

The boots do not lie. Keith brought out the best in Taylor and taylor did likewise with Richards. If there was tension in the camp, then it was a tension that was released and that resolved itself in a totally absorbing and enthralling live experience.

Nor was it 'self-indulgent'. It was self-fulfilling.

'Self-indulgent' came in 75-76. LONGER solos on YCAGWYW, without the spontaneity, majesty and grace. Ridiculous costumes and props. '75-76 was when it became a preformance rather than a spontaneous combustion. Some raucous moments, but nothing ever so electric, effortless and unconsciously musically competent as in '73.

(ps Wood played a full creative and active part in 75-76. The difference was in Mick's approach/attitude, in Keith's less dynamic, commanding role, and in Charlie's (and Bill's) less forceful, gel-like presence. The whole Ollie-Brown experiment did not help. And Billie P had by then become more of a musically (and vocally) integral crux than an interesting and tasteful compliment.

If you were there in '72-73 and then there in '75-76, you just know it was a world of difference. Words and theorising thirty years later can do little to 'explain' the relative decline.

By '78 or '81 and until the present day, people (incl. Bob Geldof) praise the Stones because they are have a casual, hit-and-miss, garage-band attitide, i.e. an authentic live approach which cannot gaurantee convincing musical synthesis and 'professionalism'.

Well in '73 the had all the ingredients. In abundance and in abandon.

I continue to be amazed at these inteligent, thoughtful posts. Boy, we should post like this all the time....so refreshing to read instead of retarded off topic garbage or silly pointless comments. (peanuts anyone?)

We seem to be a smart bunch. At least some...

Four Stone Walls Wrote:
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> Yes, I was there Sept 8th '73.
>


IMHO a show thats every bit as great as the one from Brussels. Surprisingly good recording for the era

agree 100% with what you say about 72-73 vs 75-76

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK again.......
>
> [i9.photobucket.com]
> IMMERBOY%202/GLIMMERBOY%203/WEM73.jpg
> Wembley 1973 - Daily Mail archives


Woohooo! Jumpin' Jagger Flash

Truly a wonderful and inspiring post. Such discussions are truly the stuff of a long-time fans' dreams. This is what IORR was made for. This is the level it should aspire to. Thanks BV for the opportunity to communicate with so many other great fans. And I thank the people for all the insightful and informative comments.

The biggest disappointmnet from 72/73 is that the "general public/Stones fan" has never heard the band at thier peak live. The best they haev is YA YAs. Sure L&G DVD is out there and it used to make the rounds at the "midnight showings" but that was almost 30 years ago.

Mick MUST open the vaults and release 72/73 live recording.

Slightly OT: 1978- which is the best Ronnie era live material is also absent to the general public.

don't give me that ole one two, one two three four

Yeah -- great thread! Very interesting and inspiring.

I agree -- again -- that the '72-73 and '78 recordings just scream to be released some day. But to some extent, the true musical power of the Stones at their height of their abilities has already been lost on the casual fan or general music buff with no special interest in the Stones like us. But we can still wait and hope.

<<As brilliant as Mick Taylor was with the Stones however, it could reasonably be argued that had he remained with the band, his virtuoso style of playing might have actually hindered their progression towards formulating their more consumer-friendly, one-size-fits-all stage production that we still see today. Conversely, it could be contested that in choosing to venture down such a road towards stadium tours and commercial mass market appeal, the Rolling Stones lost much of the musical and artistic credibility that Taylor had played such a significant part in helping them to establish.>>

On the mark and nicely put. "...hindered their progression..." :-) Indeed!

That was my first tour. I caught them at Belle vue Manchester.
I think what was often more noticeable live than on recordings was that MT's guitar [to me anyway] often seems to be laid on top of the Stones' music, rather than being part of it.
I know it's largely because of that greater rhythm lead distinction, but MT's style is for me,also often too fluid for the stones groove driven sound. Put it too far up in the mix... and it doesn't sound like stones any more!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-10-22 14:35 by Spud.

Spud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was my first tour. I caught them at Belle vue
> Manchester.
> I think what was often more noticeable live
> than on recordings was that MT's guitar often
> seems to be laid on top of the Stones' music,
> rather than being part of it.
> I know it's largely because of that greater rhythm
> lead distinction, but MT's style is for me,also
> often too fluid for the stones groove driven
> sound. Put too far up in the mix... and it doesn't
> sound like stones any more!



AGREED.... but when Keef was on top of his game they worked great. A good example is NY 72, I can't remeber teh name of the boot but especially on Rip This Joint, where MT is in the left speaker and Keef is in the right they mess perfectly and MT is not to fluid. Same for Don't Lie to Me (I can't remeber which show that was played at).

This seems a good a place as anywhere to mention there's a brilliant live 73 selection of King Biscuit soundboard recordings just added to trader's den.

I think this comment sums it up...

"Thanks! This is by far the best sounding version of this material I've heard. No distortion, clipping or compression. Very nice"

Nice thread indeed...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-06 11:43 by dcba.

... if a bit old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-07-06 15:13 by dcba.

THIS is one of the most important threads ever in history of IORR.

You'll be copping it for resurrecting a thread this old.