I have always remembered Steel Wheels as a fine 'comeback' album that I appreciated and liked very much when it appeared, but then quickly faded into irrelevance - compared to the vast majority of the Stones’ canon it had very little long-term resonance. Though it had several outstanding tracks, the production values sounded somewhat dated the moment it was released – slick, over-produced, and a bit sterile…and the songwriting [aside from tracks like ‘Slipping Away’ and perhaps ‘Blinded by Love’] seemed middling. ‘Mixed Emotions’ was a bankable yet unremarkable single. Sure…’Continental Drift’ was an interesting ‘curio’…but in retrospect it all seemed rather…calculated.

The following tour was terrific...I saw it in the U.S. and in Europe [called the Urban Jungle Tour] but the album itself didn't have any long-term impact with me…nor with many long-time fans.

Remember, this was a time when Guns ‘n Roses seemed to define what a rock ‘n roll band should look and sound like; dirty and dangerous, like the Stones of yore. And on the other side of the scale U2 was ascendant…with Daniel Lanois expertly managing their sound. Compared to the Gunners and U2, the Stones ‘sound’ and production values of this era seemed scrubbed and rather conventional…almost banal.

But I was just thrilled to have the Rolling Stones back. I think a lot of fans felt the same way.

Now these wonderful Steel Wheels outtakes…from a cassette copy of first generation master tapes [from a mysterious source…a relative of a recently deceased member of the Rolling Stones crew? Regardless…thank you whoever!] are dropped on our lap. They constitute the most important ‘recovery’ of Stones material in perhaps a decade.

And I am now completely convinced of something that I have been suspicious of the more I gather an incredible wealth of unreleased material: namely that the Rolling Stones have managed their studio recording career in an inexplicably slipshod, careless manner [don't even get me started on their live releases]– often undermining their singular talents and inimitable natural sound – a sound only God [or Satan] and Robert Johnson could have co-conspired to bestow upon a group of white English boys…amen.

Firstly: The Stones have so much good unreleased and/or unfinished material from myriad recording sessions the last 30-35 years that several of their last 10 albums could have either been double-albums or ought to have had their song line-up dramatically changed to allow the material in the vaults to be released...it is very often FAR superior to what is on the 'official' release. Have doubts? Then listen to Goat’s Head Soup and tell me that a knock-about cut like ‘Hide Your Love’ is superior to the rocking ‘Criss Cross/Save Me’, or that the languid ‘Can’t You Hear The Music’ fits better into the scheme of the album than their raw and raunchy version of ‘Drift Away’ or the blistering ‘Living In The Heart Of Love’. Or listen to It’s Only Rock And Roll and tell me that a throwaway cut like ‘Short and Curlies’ is superior to cuts sitting in vaults like ‘Tops’ or ‘Waiting On A Friend’, or even the very soulful ‘Fast Talking’, not to mention the funky and rollicking ‘You Should Have Seen Her Ass’…cuts that would have made that disc a first-tier album. Even Black And Blue should have been a top-tier Stones work with cuts like ‘Worried About You’ and ‘Slave’ added to it…not to mention all the other cuts from that era in the can and sealed away…the lucky people who have these recordings know from what I speak…a treasure trove…well, you get the picture…

And don’t tell me that Tattoo You would then not have existed. The Stones had plenty other material in the vaults…and they could have also…God forbid…written new material.

Secondly: Their 'producers' - especially after Tattoo You - have neglected and wasted the Stone’s crunch, dissonance, and jangle. This has compromised and often neutered their lustrous and gloriously bawdy ‘sound’.

Listening to these outtakes of what is supposedly one of their weakest albums - Steel Wheels - confirms and supports [in my opinion, of course] everything I have just written. These outtakes are splendid and force one to completely re-evaluate the Steel Wheels album and era.

Songs like Mixed Emotions [now with a long, exhilarating and pulsating outro], and Sad, Sad, Sad - which seemed kinda flat and formulaic on the official album - sound raw, urgent and vital. Hold On To Your Hat [wow – this version should’ve opened the album!] is transformed into a thrilling hard-rock boogie-woogie – the piano actually being the lead instrument propelling the arrangement forward. Jagger's voice is really nasty and edgy on the rockers – a far cry from the cleaned up singing on the official release. Keith sings 'Almost Hear You Sigh' in a delicate and vulnerable voice...it was written by him and should have been sung by him on the album – and Jagger's schematic reading on the official release fades into memory. A superb Blues called 'Fancyman Blues' [b-side of the single "Mixed Emotions"] stuns...it is brilliant. Jagger is an unsurpassed Blues interpreter. Another unreleased gem, the heartbreaking 'Precious Love' is a classic...Jagger startles…had it been released it would stand with the Stones’ top 10 ballads. And top 10 covers. And so on...

THIS is the "STEEL WHEELS" that should have been released...warts and rough edges and all. It is dirty, sloppy and beautiful...it would have been a classic. I am truly amazed...

The crime here is that their post-Tattoo You studio work is chock full of inspired performances and unreleased gems. Contrary to conventional wisdom, I now believe that they have NOT had a disastrous creative lull. Their choice of producers has been absolutely mind bogglingly wrongheaded…and their numerous Solo albums have severely reduced the number of quality cuts available for Rolling Stones releases; but if one listens to many of the outtake tracks of all the albums from the last 25 years, you still hear the hot, brilliant, and nasty R&R outfit that they are…then they go into 'post-production' and the blood is too often drained out. Dismaying, really.

Listen to these new Steel Wheels outtakes...and tell me that with a new track sequence...and perhaps the [Ready Yourself] instrumental track edited or cut that this wouldn't be a definitive Stones album. Alone the tracks Almost Hear You Sigh [lovingly sung by Keef], Blinded By Love, Precious Love [glorious], Terrifying [a 'Heaven' on amphetamines], the sublime Slipping Away, and Continental Drift to end the album...would have made a Side 2 Tattoo You redux [and maybe even better]...then on Side One the rockers... Hold On To Your Hat, Mixed Emotions, Fancyman Blues, Can’t Be Seen, Sad Sad Sad, Hearts for Sale, Call Girl Blues, and Rock + a Hard Place…and with THIS raw unproduced feel and the stray studio chatter, and the long jams and codas....ahhhhh SHitE...just listen to it and you'll know what I mean...a great producer like the dearly departed Jimmy Miller would have perhaps eliminated a cut or two, kept the rough edges and the spontaneity and the chatter, and released this almost as is…THAT album would have been an impressive addition to their canon...a killer...a late-era near-masterpiece…

[I know…this track listing is probably too long for an old-fashioned LP…OK…screw it…make it an LP with a 4-track bonus EP…or make it a CD and go with all of them…whatever works for you]

My buddy Delroi wrote me..."It seems over the last ~15 years, they keep working with slick, establishment producers like this walking neuter-machine, Don Was. I have to tell you, I have listened to stuff he's produced for others, for instance, Dylan's "Under A Blood Red Sky", and like metronomic clock work, he seems to preside over the most stultifying, soporific, punchless, antiseptic drivel any of the artists in question have ever released. The man is literally death-by-anesthesia at the soundboard. Why they haven't worked with Rick Rubin, Daniel Lanois, or a young gun like Ethan Johns (indeed, son of legendary Glyn and nephew of Andy) that has done monster producer work for Ryan Adams and Emmylou Harris (to name just a few). In the end, considering Jagger is widely known to be an absolute control & business freak, I lay these egregious lapses at his door. His business acumen when it comes to commercially monetizing the stones is impeccable (impeccably off-putting actually), but his artistic instincts have got to be among **the worst** of the "icon rock bands". Absolute worst. He has, through his inept strategy, essentially indentured the Stones to irrelevance post-1980 in my book. Proof? Ask most rock listeners/music aficionados about the Stones, and the vast majority will say that the Stones haven't been a truly relevant >>studio<< band since Tattoo You, as a live band obviously we'd have to arrive at another assessment. Many now consider them a nostalgia act...worth seeing live if only for their 1960's-1970's output. Criminal. And it is Jagger's fault considering their languishing back catalogue."

Now, you may or may not agree with my buddy Delroi, but I think he raises some very interesting and valid points. I hope I do too. I detest the production Chris Kimsey provided for the Stones on Steel Wheels, and absolutely loathe what Don Was has done for the Stones the last several studio albums. He is over-reverent, bland mediocrity personified. But that is simply my own opinion. I have been hoping since 1983 that they would work with someone as bracing and challenging and pure and insane as Rick Rubin...what he did for Johnny Cash [among others like Tom Petty, etc…] was miraculous. Or maybe Jack White [White Stripes] could do for them what he did for Loretta Lynn last year on Van Lear Rose. Surely all of you have other choices...and other opinions. I would love to hear them. Regardless...since the blessed, blighted and burned-out Jimmy Miller stepped away [and perhaps with the splendiferous exceptions of Some Girls and Tattoo You – that one also produced by Chris Kimsey]...and ESPECIALLY since the Dirty Work album...the Stones have been undermined by banal, incongruous, uneven production…and often-inexplicable choice and sequence of tracks for their official releases.

These newly unearthed Steel Wheels tracks prove this unfathomable fact. Thank you Gazza, Vancouver, and all of the people at RO and IORR that made it possible for these tracks to see the light of day. You have made countless people happy...and perplexed a few. Bless you.

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

Excellent post, much truth spoken.

I think Jagger still thinks of the band in terms of chart position (go for the "commercial" sound). I don't understand where Keith is on this, would expect him to take an opposite approach. Hard to say how much input the producer, Was or whomever, has.

Another example is Voodoo Lounge. The singles tunes (Jump On Top of Me, etc.) are as good or better than anything on the album.

While is seems a little strong to say they mismanaged their recording career and I think some of their later day albums like ABB and VL are very good, you do make a good point.

I have always felt that one of their weaknesses was in deciding what songs make the cut and which ones don't. Another good example would be them leaving "Think I'm Going Mad" off the Undercover album and leaving inferior tracks on the final album.

Some of their eightees stuff did have an overproduced sound but that was the eightees. At least the Stones eightees stuff was better than most of the other crap from the eightees.

You undermine your own interesting ideas with your verbosity.

OK Turd, where can I get a copy?

Great post. I agree with you completely. And its also true that Mick seems to be the reason why the Stones can be thought of as a nostalgic band. They generally ignore everything post Tattoo You when they tour with the exception of a few songs here and there. Imagine if they played Hearts for Sale live and it sounded close to how it is on this Steel Wheels outtakes. It could be reserected almost like Worried About You has been the past few years.

They need to give the casual fans a chance to hear some of the Stones material from the later days. Mix these songs in with the warhorses.

And a new producer that kept it simple would be wonderful..

Agree %100 with Turd on all points. If only Mick could read that wonderfully written post.

and ditto to Hound Dog

Man you fcukin nailed in your post what everyone has been thinking for a long time!!!

Ditch Was & hire Rubin coz he's not a kiss ass, you just need to listen to the albums he's produced from Cash to the Jayhawks to Diamond. He's the man that can give the Stones their Mojo back.

You know what I'm saying dudes, he's a modern day Jimmy Miller.

They need someone to put a rocket up their fcukin ass and tell it to em straight....The Stones have got too many kiss ass, arse lickers in their production team and as the Glimmer Twins they're aren't very good as they're too close to the music.

Fcuk it they should record on analogue tape and master thru valves... cook the mother.

NickB

I think you can argue that they've been too much in control of their own output throughout much of their history. It's a bit of a double edged sword. Sometimes a detached pair of ears making the decisions might have been a good thing.
[:^D ..now I'm picturing two detached ears...on wires or something ]

Stones4Ever Wrote:
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> OK Turd, where can I get a copy?

Search for the "Find of the decade" thread.

While I agree with your points about the producer, I think you're making too much of the differences in versions. The album would still have a pretty "light" sound. More generally, I don't understand what benefit you think the band's career would have gained. Haven't things worked out fairly well, commercially? Are you talking about better chart performance? I don't think there are too many aficionados of raw sounds out there who would have liked Steel Wheels but didn't just b/c of the final mix. If you're speaking from the hardcore fan's "legacy" perspective, yeah maybe, but bands only cater to them if those are the only fans they have.

When listening to this, I think Chris Kimsey is absolutely one of the best (with Jimmy Miller and Glynn Johns) producers for a Rolling Stones record.
Listen only how he recorded Charlie's drums!
What I also like very much is the way Chuck handles the keyboard parts (never thought I would say this!)

Interesting

Yes the Steel Wheels demos are inspired stuff.
Reading the RS 1995 interview with Jagger And I do agree about his opinion on the Voodoo Lounge album. Even if I think its the best album since 81 I do believe it lacks variation. Its not colourful enough.

I am pretty much with you the whole way except I think these outtakes are being a bit over-lionized. I mean lots of it is very cool but Sad, Sad, Sad, Rock and a Hard Place and Mixed Emotions just kind of suck as songs (they didn't get any better as dance mixes or live either) IMO.

On other points:

As much as I detest Don Was, it could be worse: Imagine if Jeff Lynne had been brought into the fold. They both deserve to be strung up.

Rick Rubin produced the only homerun / knockout Stones album of the last 25 years: It's called Wandering Spirit and Mick evidently hated every minute of it (Mick should be strung up for not saving those excellent songs for Voodoo Lounge). Can you imagine how good Voodoo Lounge and B2B could have been with Rubin not only producing the good songs but with the balls to stand up and say "This song sucks, let's drop it" or "Your lyrics are insipid and banal, go back and try again"?

As far as the outtakes go, the best gift they could posibly give to their fans would be a double Tattoo You II or a series of bootleg box sets ala Dylan (gotta believe it would equal a pretty good pay day too). But Mick Jagger works in mysterious ways and it is evidently not our place to question his wisdom.

well maybe they'll release steel wheels then a second disc with the aletrnate versions.

Excuse me but being on tour all the time makes me sort of dumb and blind. I know these recordings do circulate on the net, but have they ever been released by one of the numerous bootleg labels as well? Originally or later on?

Bjornulf

hooray!

BV is back! Oh how I've missed you, beevee!

Your fingers must be tired...

That's what she said!


ZING!

I've heard the outtakes and unless I have an unauthentic copy,I don't hear a big difference.I still consider it among the best 1989 albums but,not among the best Stones albums although there is some good stuff on there.I believe the songs were recorded with the '80's vibe - not much else that could have been done about it.It would be interesting to hear some of these songs live this year,esecially Mixed Emotions.I think they would sound less '80's-like if they were performed now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-26 02:40 by Theif in the Night.

bv Wrote:
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but have they ever been
> released by one of the numerous bootleg labels as
> well? Originally or later on?


No. This is the first time any of these songs have circulated

southboundtrain Wrote:
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> You undermine your own interesting ideas with your
> verbosity.

the guy writes a scholarly post and you have the balls to piss on it??? shame on you

lonecrapshooter Wrote:
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> southboundtrain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You undermine your own interesting ideas with
> your
> > verbosity.
>
> the guy writes a scholarly post and you have the
> balls to piss on it??? shame on you

i agree with the thread starter and this poster but mostly this kinda thing happens all the time with every band. how many times have i heard a demo or rough/original mix that was better than the final album version? about a million times. i've heard some megadeth demos from 1990 that blow away the album versions of the same songs, i've heard a less cheesy sounding rough mix of bon jovi's living on a prayer, i've heard awesome black crowes outtakes and a cd with outtakes is actually coming out within the next 2 weeks and there are a few leftovers from the aerosmith album pump that should have been on there. it happens all the time. thats what a producer does is pick the songs with the most potential and make sure the songs that are picked are mixed the way he wants them.

I don't think they hav mismanaged their recording career. OK, some of the SW stuff would have been better off in those outtake versions. That's true. But I also don't like the SW production. If you pick another example like VL, the story is tottally different. That production rocks, and fits 100% on those songs. We don't know about the B2B ones, but that production, though a little dated, holds up great too. Mainly because it fits the songs. Same with ABB. You must remember, and that kindda seems to be forgotten as you read through this thread, that they obviously have taken a different direction. Maybe fans don't like it, but, listen to the first verse in RJ and see what he thinks about that. He pretty much says @#$%& you to the fans that can't get on the new boat. They are not the Exilers anymore. They are The Rolling Stones of today. If you don't get it, it's you who missed something, not them. I think that that's what they think.

JumpingKentFlash

nice read.

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Excuse me but being on tour all the time makes me
> sort of dumb and blind. I know these recordings do
> circulate on the net, but have they ever been
> released by one of the numerous bootleg labels as
> well? Originally or later on?


this is the first time theyve been widely circulated. Not yet on bootleg CD (although of course its a matter of time!)

Precious Love was fantastic but none of the others really blew me away. I like most tracks better than the Steel Wheels version, but I agree with those who said they don't see that much difference. The songs on Steel Wheels vary from good but not great to ok to horrible, and I don't think all the production in the world can change that. The songs are what they are.

Turd On The Run Wrote:
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> Firstly: The Stones have so much good unreleased and/or unfinished material from > myriad recording sessions the last 30-35 years that several of their last 10
> albums could have either been double-albums or ought to have had their song
> line-up dramatically changed to allow the material in the vaults to be
> released...it is very often FAR superior to what is on the 'official' release.
> Have doubts? Then listen to Goat’s Head Soup (...)

I think you have a point with "Goats Head Soup". This could've easily been a much better album. But even in this case many of its famous outtakes (like Waiting On a Friend and Tops) weren't finished then, maybe due to lack of inspiration. Considering the following albums I think we all may fall victim to knowing the existing tracks a little too well - so there's a big yearning for alteration and "fresh" takes. Anyway I agree with Steel Wheels being one of their weakest outings. And although the new outtakes reveal some interesting variations, I don't think they really could've changed this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-31 13:11 by Greenblues.

I am totally surprised with how these outtakes sound. Steel wheels was my least favorite Stones album, even behind Dirty Work! These outtakes shed a whole new light on that period. Now, what the HELL HAPPENED!!!! They wrote good songs, recorded them, and then they got @#$%& up. I saw the Stones twice on the SW tour and I thought they were lousy. Both times at Shea stadium. I've listened to Flashpoint, and to many live boots form that era and IMHO they were at their lowest point. After listening to DW outtakes (crushed Pearls) I can see that they just did have much to begin with but SW should have been so much better. Whose fault was it? The band? the producer? the engineer? On the SW album the only songs that I like are Break the Spell and maybe Sad Sad Sad.
Does anybody have anymore info on these recordings, they sound fully finished, not works in progress or jams.

i agree with ohnonotyouagain, those outtakes do not thrill me so much. the material stays weak.

that said, there's a lot of truth in the first post regarding the approach to studio production by the band.