I think the Les Paul Keith used on HTW forthe '69 tour is the same one you see Mick Taylor with on the Hyde Park Phots you put up a few weeks ago. Looks like the pickup covers were put back on though.

Its also a similar model he used on Around and Around (colorized version in 1964) performance. Keith used two gibson les paul standard models that are sunburst but the difference is one has a pickguard and the other doesn't.

>> I think the Les Paul Keith used on HTW for the '69 tour is the same one you see Mick Taylor with on the Hyde Park Phots you put up a few weeks ago. Looks like the pickup covers were put back on though.<<

here it is again for our viewing convenience:


- july 5th 1969 (from Stones in the Park, courtesy BrownEyedGirll)

[peering hard:] could i persuade you to take me on a guided tour of the differences between this one and the one Mick T's got in your cool photo?
meanwhile i watched the Gimme Shelter HTW again, and as usual i (a) enjoyed it immensely and (b) feel like slapping the next Maysles brother i meet for being so bloody fixated on the frontman. there's a whole band at work up there and we would like a good look at them and their instruments too! grr :E

Hi RollingStonesRob. The guitar you mention for the 'Around and Around' promo is one and the same. The pickguard is easily removable.

Mss Sssoul, beyond the pickup covers, there isn't enough detail to tell the difference between the two Les Pauls, if any. I do believe they are the same because as previously stated Mick bought Keith's Bigsby equipped Les Paul in 1968.

I share your sentiments on the Mayselles fixation on Mick in 'Gimme Shelter' I wnated to see the whole band too!

okay, thanks ChrisM - let me see if i've got this straight now:
Keith sold the Les Paul in the two 1965 photos i posted to Mick T in 67, and it may be the instrument we see Mick T with in your shot from 68.
and that could well be the same one in this Hyde Park photo, which Keith then requisitioned for HTW on the 69 tour.
cool! :E

That seems to be the way of it. W emay never know for sure though.

Slightly to digress - does anyone have any thoughts and opinions about Brian Jones's guitars?
His most famous one is the Vox 'Teardrop' - was it any good as a guitar? What else did he play?

>> Brian Jones's guitars <<

great topic! here's a thread just dying to be developed:
[iorr.org]

Brian of course also used Gibson Firebirds a lot - but since this is a Keith thread:
as RollingStonesRob noted up there somewhere, Keith also played Firebirds occasionally -
both reverse and nonreverse models, as you can see in the photos below.
were these Keith's own, or did he borrow Brian's on these occasions?
and if anyone feels like explaining the design of these things i will be gratefully fascinated -
do the odd shapes serve any purpose besides lookin snazzy?
the reverse model always looks kinda awkward to me - doesn't that "sharkfin" get in the way?


- Hollywood A Go Go, may 15th 1965, by Al Burton (courtesy musthear.com - thank you BrownEyedGirll)


- Warsaw, apr 13th 1967, by Marek Karewicz (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)

Talking about guitars, does anybody know the cost of a Gibson Hummingbird in the States?

just google it, baby: [www.music123.com]
among about 233 thousand other sites ... now back to Keith's early guitars, right. :E

Keith and Brian both use reversed firebirds on the 1965 appearance of hullabaloo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-06 00:09 by RollingStonesRob.

My Casino is a Gibson-made like Keith's/Lennon/Harrison with P90s.
They're a pretty versatile guitar, perfect for that Revolver-type sound
and record well. The feedback situation people associate with it is
somewhat true, but you have to know how to control it. JUst back off
the gain and volume and you're fine. Some guitars you just can't plug in
and go. Keith mentioned in an interview that it "tended to feedback in the wrong
places," and i'm sure he's talking about the teenybopper tours when he
just cranked the amps up and let it fly. HIs Casino is probably a '62 or '63,
and the headstock is different from the hourglass shape of later Casino's.
It's possible he used the Casino to record some of Aftermath as this was the guitar he used during the fall 1965 USA tour and sessions started just after the tour.
Someone posted earlier that Casinos are usless onstage.
I disagree. I'm sure Paul Weller does, too, as he's been using one
for quite a while.

smile: backing off the volume is not Keith's first instinct. :E
thanks for this input, TomK - i am fascinated even if i can't think of any semi-intelligent response.

>> It's possible he used the Casino to record some of Aftermath
as this was the guitar he used during the fall 1965 USA tour and sessions started just after the tour. <<

the Casino first turns up in photos from their first US tour
but yeah, Keith seems to have been on good terms with it for quite a while.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-17 11:31 by with sssoul.

well looky here - what's all this?!
is that a reverse Firebird Keith's got there? in 72??
sorry - you can barely see it, but are there a lot of guitars that have the tuning pegs on the underside like that?


- 1972, courtesy of (you guessed it!) BrownEyedGirll

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The Gibson Les Paul here is the Bigsby equiped Les
> Paul Keith bought in 1964 and used on the TAMI
> show. He toured with it until 1966, and sold it to
> Mick Taylor in 1967 through Ian Stewart. Taylor
> toured Europe and the US with it with John Mayall,
> and took it to the Stones camp when he became a
> Stone. He played it on the 1969 and 1970 tour, but
> I never seen it again after 1970. It's not on any
> picture of the Exile period, so it was probably
> sold or stolen around 1970. It popped up again
> some 10 years ago in the hands of a London
> collector, and last year he decided to sell it.
> Apperently it has sold for $500.000, which isn't
> that much for a Keith Richards/Mick Taylor/Mick
> Jagger owned and played instrument. By the way,
> there's been at least 10 Gibson Les Paul standards
> in the Stones camp, and actually recognising them
> can be really hard.
>
> Mathijs


Do you know when it was sold?
I read an article that it was on auction at christie's and didn't sell.
Mind you, that was December 2004.

In these shots from tv shows, are the guitars actually being played/plugged in? I don't have straight which programs were just miming to a tape. I've often thought it looks as if the guitarists took advantage of that situation to hold cool-looking but problematic guitars that they wouldn't actually play, like Firebirds.

re: "just back off the gain and volume." Not really an option if you like your sound full of gain and volume. I love the sound of the Casino on Beatles records (didn't know until now that keith/brian _may_ have recorded with them, thanks), but I understand the problem.

cc

true enough, CC, that a lot of those television shows were playback,
including that Hollywood A Go Go where Keith's got a Firebird.
(www.nzentgraf.de is a handy source for information like that - thanks & praises, Nico!)
on the other hand, there Keith is in Warsaw 67 with another Firebird, so clearly he did really play it sometimes;
and of course Brian used his all over the place, as does Ronnie.

so what was/is problematic about Firebirds, and what's sweet about them?
any insights will be gratefully received, please and thank you very kindly ...

>> (didn't know until now that Keith/Brian _may_ have recorded with them, thanks) <<

that photo i posted of Keith with an Epiphone in a studio along with Brian and Mick seems like pretty good evidence that he probably recorded with it -
and it makes me extra-sorry i'm not sure of the date of that shot. does anyone recognize what studio that is, by any chance?
here's the photo again just so we don't have to keep backing up to page 2:


- late 65? 66? by Stu

just for good measure: another day, another Gibson LP ...


- probably 1966, by Stu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 20:03 by with sssoul.

Hahaha LOL, I can not believe you tracked down that shot of Keith from 72 with a Firebird. Now be honest: how long did it take you to find that one? Indeed a rare shot.
That studio shot of Keith, Brian and Jagger is surely from the USA I would say. And from their history etc. it stands to reason that it was LA where they did most of the recording in those years.

>> how long did it take you to find that one? <<

smile: you could say it took me all my life to track it down; or you could say it took me no time at all, since it was BrownEyedGirll who came up with it.
what really took me time was summoning up the courage to come out here in public hazarding that that is indeed a Firebird i'm seeing there.
Keith doesn't look real pleased with it, though, does he. :E

as for that 65/66 shot of the three of them: yeah, if it's in the US it would almost certainly be RCA Studios.
there are some real well-known Mankowitz shots of the december 65 sessions there, and this photo doesn't really look much like them, so maybe 66 is more likely.

see, what i'm really yearning for is to *hear* the different guitars - recognizing them in photos is fine, but ... it's not enough, it's not enough for me.
so sorting out the dates/places of the photos, and from there what they recorded at the sessions would be way cool.
of course, approaching it from the other angle would be way cool too, or even cooler:
if anyone wants to talk about that Epiphone Sound and what Stones tracks we can hear it on, that would be a great true gift indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-18 20:03 by with sssoul.

I know what you mean sssoul. Almost puts you into the picture, the more you know of it. Once you also hear the photo, that is alerady TWO senses working on it...
Nowadays it is probabaly next to impossible to tell from listenign what is what because with technology now you can make nayhting sound like anything else. yes, Jagger probabaly went out of his way to use the Silvertone for BOMH, for authenticity's sake, but you know...he didn't really have to. he could have done it on a Les Paul, or on Bill's homemade Bass probably.
But in the older days; the 60's the era you are illustrating here it is a lot more interesting because they did not have all the outboard gear. So we often get what is much more the generic sound of an instrument. Came down to good mikes and good rooms. We know from interviews and photos that Keith goes through stages: he will favor a ceratin type of guitar for a ceratain period. And also use the new baby to write songs around. It is only natural that if a guitarrist discovers 12 string guitars, that he will write several songs that rely on their sound. 12 string accoustic I think we can assume were all Keith backthen. Bottl necks were Brian. The jangling guuitars in those days might have come from Brian's Univox, Keith's Epiphone.
I would almost bet the farm that on Buttons Keith used a Les Paul a lot. That very compressed distorted sound ( an extremely cool sound btw) on "All Sold Out, "Miss Amanda Jones, "Complicated I think come from his Les pauls. Now one could figure that "yesterday's papers uses a Rickenbacker. But I can't recall ever seeing Keith with a Rick. Brian is on the vibes etc on YP, so we think it is Keith on guitar. I would say again the Les Paul. There is a LOT of fuzz on BTB. Fuzz ans 12 string (Whos been sleeping here, Something Happened)

There are just so many songs from back then. I think the thing to do would be to name a song, or a couple. And then we put our brains together abd try to figure and deduce (?word?) what is what, and why.

cool, Chelsea - thanks for comprehending, and for being willing! after all it's how these instruments sound, not their appearance, that really counts.
does chronological order seem as good an approach as any? and shall we stick to official releases that most/all of us have?

smile smile smile: i've just put on the first album - yikes, listen to them GO!
"all right Keith come on" - so that's that plywood-and-plastic Harmony Meteor with what Mathijs described as a "dry aggressive country sound".
what's Brian got here, that pale-green Gretsch? we know from the Coral photos that that's what they used for the second single ...

what's problematic about firebirds/explorers - I've never had a chance to play one, so my opinion is second-hand, but I've heard they're hard to keep in tune, which I've also heard about late-60s/70s Gibsons generally. Also, consider that you really don't see people playing these guitars very often. You might say, well they didn't make them for all that long, but it comes back to the same cause: not many guitarists prefer to play them. Cool-looking though, no doubt!

The Les Paul Keith is holding in the photo where he's sitting down
is a gold top. Not sure of the year of the guitar. He did use
a gold top on occasion on the US and UK tours in mid and late 1966,
along with the black Gibson.
The Barbara Charone book has an excellent shot of this guitar.
It's probable he used this guitar for Between The Buttons.
It also could be the same gold top Brain used on the Rock and Roll circus,
although I don't have any photos in front of me to compare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-07 23:40 by tomk.

ahh thank you TomK! i thought that looked like a Goldtop, but i was shy of saying so.
do you know when Keith bought it, and/or what became of it?
i've got a couple of shots of him with a Goldtop in 72 - i wonder if it could be the same one.

and: is this the shot you mean from Charone's book?


- 1966, by Stu

now ... i've got that shot labelled "probably march 66", which (if it's right) would mean it's the 6-day RCA Studios session
where they recorded (among other things) the following:

Flight 505 (Aftermath version)
High and Dry (Aftermath version)
I Am Waiting (Aftermath-version)
If You Let Me (Metamorphosis version)
It's Not Easy (Aftermath version)
Long Long While (single version)
Out of Time (Aftermath version)
Paint It Black (extended version [US Hot Rocks CD] and single version)
Stupid Girl (Aftermath version)
Under My Thumb (Aftermath version)

whoosh, some six days, huh?! six days of forever.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-06-19 20:12 by with sssoul.

>> It also could be the same gold top Brain used on the Rock and Roll Circus,
although I don't have any photos in front of me to compare. <<

King Bee very helpfully posted a shot of that one in this thread (thank you!):
[iorr.org]

ChelseaDrugstore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now one could
> figure that "yesterday's papers uses a
> Rickenbacker. But I can't recall ever seeing Keith
> with a Rick.

Here is a shot of Keith with a Rickenbacker, although it is a playback situation - Mother's Little Helper on Top of the Pops April 14, 1966. Maybe it is Brian's guitar?

The whole band -
[img.photobucket.com]

Just Keith -


--- both shots Press Association LTD (no specific photographer info - sorry)

I just KNEW that one of you two would come up with a pic of Keith behind a Rick. I bet it is a playback situation. Rickenbackers don't suit Keith's style of playing.
My experience with Firebirds is that they would not stay in tune. But the main rpoblem I had was the terrible action. There is something very amateur-like in the build of the Firebirds IMO. They look cool but lierally everyone I know doesn't really like them. They are best for slide IMO. The high action doens't get in the way so much. I see Johnny Winter with FB a lot.

Didn't know that about Winter playing Firebirds, thanks ChelseaD.

Surprisingly, John Fogerty's main axe during his CCR days was a Rickenbacker. Now he uses mostly Les Pauls, I believe, for the same parts.

cc