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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
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71Tele
LPs were up to 44 minutes. I don't know where gets the 36 minute thing.
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Witness
However, the big question still remains as I hinted at in an earlier post: Will various Stones fans select the same five songs that you do from said later albums?
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
Scarlett, Travellin' Man, Hillside Blues or Criss Cross Man...it was so difficult to publish these songs on SF reissue?!!
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
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lem motlow
i feel bad for don was,he couldn't tell them it sucked he just had to say "oh,i made you a 36 minute version if you want it"
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alimente
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
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alimente
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
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dcbaQuote
alimente
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
I do believe that.
The leaking of the Vigotone Brew/Stew/Residue back in 96 proevd one thing : the Stones have lost their mojo when it comes to picking the best song demos for the final album tracklisting.
And that's very sad... I mean the simple inclusion of a super-mediocre song like "Sparks Will Fly" in VL and the exclusion of "You Got It Made" is quite puzzling.
Yes they've lost their mojo and Don "yes boss" Was cannot help them.
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
Be careful about "what people say" - a friend who got his "Voodoo Brew" box a couple of days earlier than me enthusiastically described "Honest Man" as "in the same league as Midnight Rambler, if not better" and Keith's "You Got It Made" as "Gimme Shelter Part II"...
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
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alimente
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
I do believe that.
The leaking of the Vigotone Brew/Stew/Residue back in 96 proevd one thing : the Stones have lost their mojo when it comes to picking the best song demos for the final album tracklisting.
And that's very sad... I mean the simple inclusion of a super-mediocre song like "Sparks Will Fly" in VL and the exclusion of "You Got It Made" is quite puzzling.
Yes they've lost their mojo and Don "yes boss" Was cannot help them.
A good example, but that's not what I meant. I said "write, record, and finish", which means a finished, final production master, releasable without any further work. Of course they have demos and song sketches in their archives that had more potential than some stuff they actually released, but this is 2015, and what is really there that could be released without any further work given that they (=Mick) are obviously not too keen on going back to old tapes, recording overdubs, writing proper lyrics and recording final vocal tracks anymore? Apart from cover versions like Drift Away, Let's Go Steady and For Your Precious Love, maybe.
Criss Cross Mind seems to be a finished production. But what else is there? Not much, if anything, I guess. OK, they finished Fiji Jim (along with covers of Shame, Shame, Shame by Jimmy Reed and Let's Go Steady) in 1993/1994 for use as b-sides of Voodoo Lounge singles, just like they did with So Young.
I think it has to do with the very nature of their studio working method - work on a plethora of ideas, riffs, grooves, song sketches up to a certain point and then decide the ones that would make the album. The chosen ones were further worked on until they were finished, and the other stuff which had fallen by the wayside remained unfinished. "You Got It Made" is one of those things that were not developed any further. It's great, sure, it would have been great to have it on the album, sure, but it was their decision that two Keith lead vocal tracks were already enough.
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gotdablouseQuote
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
Be careful about "what people say" - a friend who got his "Voodoo Brew" box a couple of days earlier than me enthusiastically described "Honest Man" as "in the same league as Midnight Rambler, if not better" and Keith's "You Got It Made" as "Gimme Shelter Part II"...
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
True (although that would have been Stew and not Brew ) Scarlett was specifically reworked during the Exile Deluxe sessions though and it was ready for inclusion. I guess it didn't really fit the timeframe for Exile (but what about Title Take 5!) but where will we see it now? On a TY "Deluxe" ?
Glad to see your comment above about "Fiji Jim" being reworked in 1993/94 but I think it was for the Virgin rereleases originally. They decided against extra tracks in the end. I suppose they used "So Young" so that these sessions (Mick at the Power Station in NYC according to French rock journo Manoeuvre) wouldn't be a total write-off...I wrote I was "glad" because I could swear I saw Mick mention FJ in an AOL "chat session" in the 90s but I've never found a transcript and no one else seemed to remember that. Is that where you saw FJ mentioned to?
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GasLightStreet
There is nothing that supports those songs that were tracked in the studio (You Got It Made, etc) are not finished. Those and the songs that made VL are in various states on the boots.
Don Was clearly didn't pay attention when working on the SG extra tracks since they ignored all the rest of the good tunes. Only No Spare Parts and Do You Think I Really Care are worthy of that release in the strict sense of the SG sessions.
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gotdablouseQuote
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
Be careful about "what people say" - a friend who got his "Voodoo Brew" box a couple of days earlier than me enthusiastically described "Honest Man" as "in the same league as Midnight Rambler, if not better" and Keith's "You Got It Made" as "Gimme Shelter Part II"...
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
True (although that would have been Stew and not Brew ) Scarlett was specifically reworked during the Exile Deluxe sessions though and it was ready for inclusion. I guess it didn't really fit the timeframe for Exile (but what about Title Take 5!) but where will we see it now? On a TY "Deluxe" ?
Glad to see your comment above about "Fiji Jim" being reworked in 1993/94 but I think it was for the Virgin rereleases originally. They decided against extra tracks in the end. I suppose they used "So Young" so that these sessions (Mick at the Power Station in NYC according to French rock journo Manoeuvre) wouldn't be a total write-off...I wrote I was "glad" because I could swear I saw Mick mention FJ in an AOL "chat session" in the 90s but I've never found a transcript and no one else seemed to remember that. Is that where you saw FJ mentioned to?
No, it was an interview with Chris Kimsey back then in Guitar Player or some other music mag, stating that he was instructed by Mick to comb the vaults for unreleased tracks that were finished or required only little work to finish them. According to Kimsey, Mick wanted them as filler material for CD single releases from Voodoo Lounge. Kimsey stated that he did not find much that was "suitable" to these requirements and specifically mentioned Drift Away, So Young, Fiji Jim, Shame Shame Shame and Let's Go Steady. He also mentioned that Mick had to record new lead vocals for some as the guide vocals on the rough recordings were "unusable", my guess is that those were the three tracks from the SG sessions. Only So Young was used back then - to my big disappointment, as I was hoping for a pristine sounding version of Fiji Jim, one of my favourite Stones outtakes...
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GasLightStreet
There is nothing that supports those songs that were tracked in the studio (You Got It Made, etc) are not finished. Those and the songs that made VL are in various states on the boots.
Don Was clearly didn't pay attention when working on the SG extra tracks since they ignored all the rest of the good tunes. Only No Spare Parts and Do You Think I Really Care are worthy of that release in the strict sense of the SG sessions.
Well, dream on ... as there is also nothing that supports those songs were actually finished.
Concerning Don Was not paying attention to or ignoring "all the rest of the good tunes" from the SG sessions - what if Mick had a different opinion and thought they were shit?
It's easy to blame people like Don Was when in fact we don't have exact info about what went on behind the scenes - who decided what and so on.
Of course, it's also possible that they intentionally save some material for future re-releases and anniversary editions. The Stones have finally opened the vaults, yes, but that does not mean that they want to give us everything that's possible right now.
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gotdablouse
There is at least one remaining finished track from the Exile Deluxe sessions, Scarlett, a potential "hit" too according to those who heard it. Maybe not from the SF sessions per say but who would have known and where are they going to put it now?
Be careful about "what people say" - a friend who got his "Voodoo Brew" box a couple of days earlier than me enthusiastically described "Honest Man" as "in the same league as Midnight Rambler, if not better" and Keith's "You Got It Made" as "Gimme Shelter Part II"...
...I simply don't believe that they write, record and finish a "potential hit" and don't release it, not even as a b-side...
True (although that would have been Stew and not Brew ) Scarlett was specifically reworked during the Exile Deluxe sessions though and it was ready for inclusion. I guess it didn't really fit the timeframe for Exile (but what about Title Take 5!) but where will we see it now? On a TY "Deluxe" ?
Glad to see your comment above about "Fiji Jim" being reworked in 1993/94 but I think it was for the Virgin rereleases originally. They decided against extra tracks in the end. I suppose they used "So Young" so that these sessions (Mick at the Power Station in NYC according to French rock journo Manoeuvre) wouldn't be a total write-off...I wrote I was "glad" because I could swear I saw Mick mention FJ in an AOL "chat session" in the 90s but I've never found a transcript and no one else seemed to remember that. Is that where you saw FJ mentioned to?
No, it was an interview with Chris Kimsey back then in Guitar Player or some other music mag, stating that he was instructed by Mick to comb the vaults for unreleased tracks that were finished or required only little work to finish them. According to Kimsey, Mick wanted them as filler material for CD single releases from Voodoo Lounge. Kimsey stated that he did not find much that was "suitable" to these requirements and specifically mentioned Drift Away, So Young, Fiji Jim, Shame Shame Shame and Let's Go Steady. He also mentioned that Mick had to record new lead vocals for some as the guide vocals on the rough recordings were "unusable", my guess is that those were the three tracks from the SG sessions. Only So Young was used back then - to my big disappointment, as I was hoping for a pristine sounding version of Fiji Jim, one of my favourite Stones outtakes...
Thanks, very interesting, I'm a bit surprised that was for VL B-Sides though as Don Was had already gotten Mick to commit to writing lyrics for the instrumentals they had (I remember Mick complaining in an interview that DW was bugging him to finish them). For some reason they seemed pretty big on "B-Sides" for VL, they had never really paid attention to them before. I'll see if I can find that Chris Kimsey interview somewhere...
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alimente
I guess or even seem to recall that they (or Mick, that is) instructed Kimsey because he already went through the vaults for Tattoo You; with the thought that it might be easier for him because he'd already went through this procedure or even had notes concerning tracks that although did not make the cut for Tattoo You, were still suitable for b-sides. However, it's interesting to note that obviously no 80's outtakes (from Undercover, Dirty Work and Steel Wheels) were considered.
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71Tele
Don Was, like Chuck, is another employee, whatever his individual abilities and accomplishments. The Stones haven't used a real "producer" in decades, as that would entail accepting critical views. They get a guy like Was or Chuck to do a job, and they do it competently. Was (again, Like Chuck) is likely a good diplomat who knows where his bread is buttered and can get along with the Mick and Keith camps (especially the Mick camp). If the Stones wanted to put themselves in the hands of a producer they would get Jack White or Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or someone else who would challenge them. I am nit recommending any of those people, particularly, but they would make honest producers, and the results might actually be interesting.
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71Tele
If the Stones wanted to put themselves in the hands of a producer they would get Jack White or Rick Rubin, or Daniel Lanois, or someone else who would challenge them. I am nit recommending any of those people, particularly, but they would make honest producers, and the results might actually be interesting.