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Witness
Well, I think that UNDERCOVER is a GREAT album. I would have had to include it in its entirety. The last great one. So I would have wanted at least 15 songs in addition for the years after UNDERCOVER to make it interesting for me to try to make such a list.
In case, then I would have used zero songs from DIRTY WORK, "Continental Drift" from STEEL WHEELS, the single "Highwire" (the long version), "Love Is Strong" and "Sweethearts Together" from VOODOO LOUNGE and the Internet single "Doom And Gloom". I would have abstained from any re-releases. That exercise so far would have left me ten - 10! - tracks to cover the two albums that I consider verging on the semi-great, the enterprising BRIDGES TO BABYLON and the somewhat too safe, but in parts really, really good A BIGGER BANG.
At that point I would have waved the white flag and cried in desperation: I finally give in!
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caschimannQuote
Witness
Well, I think that UNDERCOVER is a GREAT album. I would have had to include it in its entirety. The last great one. So I would have wanted at least 15 songs in addition for the years after UNDERCOVER to make it interesting for me to try to make such a list.
In case, then I would have used zero songs from DIRTY WORK, "Continental Drift" from STEEL WHEELS, the single "Highwire" (the long version), "Love Is Strong" and "Sweethearts Together" from VOODOO LOUNGE and the Internet single "Doom And Gloom". I would have abstained from any re-releases. That exercise so far would have left me ten - 10! - tracks to cover the two albums that I consider verging on the semi-great, the enterprising BRIDGES TO BABYLON and the somewhat too safe, but in parts really, really good A BIGGER BANG.
At that point I would have waved the white flag and cried in desperation: I finally give in!
Go ahead Witness: Exclude Undercover. Start 1984, We want your list!
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DoxaQuote
Single Malt
Yes, to me Under Cover is also the last album that can hold many listenings from start to end. Of course there are also good songs on later albums but they're different. UC still has that old feeling. To me it'd be easier to compile 1986-2015 album. I just thought this isn't that serious issue ;-)
Serious issue?
But before I try to make my BEST OF 1983 TO TODAY collection, I need to still dig up further the difference between UNDERCOVER and the rest... Likewise I think that they are also good songs on later albums, and that they are different. But how?
Actually I think that UNDERCOVER doesn't include very strong song-writing, or. let's say, clearly stronger songs than the later albums (except, say, "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot"). I think the song-writing is rather lazy in the album actually, and some later albums - STEEL WHEELS, BRIDGES TO BABYLON - actually contain much sharper song-writing. Of course, this begs the question what a "song" actually is. With the Stones it is not just some skeleton Jagger/Richards composition, but very much constructed from the whole band effort, the way it is performed, arranged, produced, etc. There are lots of ideas - not just the basic riff, chords, melody and lyrics - going on in interesting Stones songs (the issues of credition do not belong here).
Like treaclefingers said of "Hang Fire" in its track talk, The Stones sometimes manage to make ear-pleasing and interesting pieces of music from some rather non-memorable song sketches by just the virtue of their musicianship. I think most of the songs of UNDERCOVER are like that. A damn hot band but rather mediocre song-writing or that the song themselves based on some rather half-baked jam-based ideas worked further (especially pieces like "Tie You Up", "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up", "Feel On Baby"). All those songs are fascinating because of the 'groove' and hot musicianship but not because of killer riffs or memorable compositions. Of course, this is an old Stones virtue - there are things like that especially in EXILE ON MAIN STREET (even though the initial ideas, as their application, there sound more inspired and fresh).
However, in their later works the Stones seem to lost that ability to make the songs fascinating by the virtue of their band effort, and have started to rely more on the compositions themselves. To an extent DIRTY WORK and especially STEEL WHEELS sound like that the band effort, relying and believing on their idiosyncracies and instincts, isn't the natural point of departure any longer, but more like a realization of Jagger/Richards songs within the context of latest studio possibilities. The band is forced to fit to those premises and constraints. I think especially STEEL WHEELS offers rather sharp song-writing - Mick and Keith sound like really sitting down to write some complete pieces fitting for a Stones relaese - but their realization is not that exciting or memorable, but is based on some rather obvious arrangement ideas and production of late-80's (very much dated now). If one listens pieces like "Terrifying", "Almost Hear You Sigh", "Hearts For Sale" or "Rock And A Hard Place" they all sound so compact, so clear and distinct, so slick but so obvious - there is almost none left of the old craziness, vitality and attitude, of the old unpredictable chaos, which relied on nothing else than their own instincts and imagination.
The albums since then sound all the same to me: the difference between them is how good individual compositions they include. Their performance - how they are executed - doesn't save or change anything. VOODOO LOUNGE sets the theme: it is much more 'retro' than their previous albums, but sterilizes the traditional Stones sound into some sort of 'Stones for Dummies' form: (a) it offers some sort of modern ideal what constitutes a classical Stones sound and emphasizies each component crystal clearly; (b) each musical idea - any instrument and any individual sound - is so explicitly presented that a listener cannot miss any of them by just one listening. There are no 'secrets' one needs to have a multiple listenings to get them - nor there are surprises, odd choices, hidden features, anomalies... nothing to really excite imagination. No time is needed to 'get' them - it's all there, served like some fast food. In that sense VOODOO LOUNGE cannot be any further from EXILE than it is - no matter how much Don Was wanted to do his own version of that.
So to go back to the initial comparision: even though I think a song like "Saint of Me" or "Out of Control" is better as a composion - or even as a song - as, say, "All The Way Down", "Pretty Beat Up" or "Tie You Up", there is something more irrestible in the latter ones, which keep me more excited and more eager to go back them in the long run.
Okay, these were my own preliminary remarks for myself to construe a best of collection... the task is difficult...
- Doxa
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Tops
I'm actually a bit surprised to see undercover of the night (the song) in so many lists. I don't think it's a bad song but never thought it was a favourite by the hardcore fans.
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Tops
I'm actually a bit surprised to see undercover of the night (the song) in so many lists. I don't think it's a bad song but never thought it was a favourite by the hardcore fans.
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GasLightStreetQuote
Tops
I'm actually a bit surprised to see undercover of the night (the song) in so many lists. I don't think it's a bad song but never thought it was a favourite by the hardcore fans.
I understand. I always wince when I think of the song... but when I hear it - it's very intense. It kicks. It's jarring.
It still works. I like listening to it.
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treaclefingersQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Tops
I'm actually a bit surprised to see undercover of the night (the song) in so many lists. I don't think it's a bad song but never thought it was a favourite by the hardcore fans.
I understand. I always wince when I think of the song... but when I hear it - it's very intense. It kicks. It's jarring.
It still works. I like listening to it.
I recall walking into a nightclub in 1989 and it was playing, one of the remix versions. Utterly fantastic. Six years on from when it was released, I'm not sure if the crowd even knew what they were dancing to but everyone was into it.
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rootsman
Tracks that shouldn´t be forgotten or missing from this period:
Doom and gloom
Biggest mistakeThis place is empty
Laugh I nearly diedGunface
Out of controlMight as well get juiced
Moon is upMean disposition
Jump on top of me
Highwire
Mixed emotionsContinental drift
Hold back
Feel on baby
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GasLightStreetQuote
rootsman
Tracks that shouldn´t be forgotten or missing from this period:
Doom and gloomBiggest mistake
This place is emptyLaugh I nearly diedGunface
Out of controlMight as well get juicedMoon is upMean disposition
Jump on top of meHighwireMixed emotions
Continental driftHold back
Feel on baby
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treaclefingersQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Tops
I'm actually a bit surprised to see undercover of the night (the song) in so many lists. I don't think it's a bad song but never thought it was a favourite by the hardcore fans.
I understand. I always wince when I think of the song... but when I hear it - it's very intense. It kicks. It's jarring.
It still works. I like listening to it.
I recall walking into a nightclub in 1989 and it was playing, one of the remix versions. Utterly fantastic. Six years on from when it was released, I'm not sure if the crowd even knew what they were dancing to but everyone was into it.