Tell Me :
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Great post. I don't understand why they took the piss out of Bill?
With the exception of Keith and staying up all night taking drugs he seems no more different as a person than the rest of the band. And if it's because he's seen as boring, why did Charlie never get the piss taken out of him?
I guess we don't know them personally and only have interview footage and books to go by.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-31 00:37 by brownsugar86.
I only get:
YCAGWYW
Tumbling Dice
Shine a Light
Happy
IORR
Which is not even close to the no-Wyman list. What am I missing? What else did Charlie not play on?
I always considered the bass on JJF to be played in a Wymanesque way. Bill plays against the main riff on Satisfaction. There are very few APlus Stones that Bill is not. He definitely kicks off Exile on Rocks Off. I think Mick Taylor was a much better 'Stones' bass player than Keith. And think of how much better some of those songs could have been if Bill had played on them
Is the bass on Happy any different than Bill would have played it? Is the bass on Shattered all that? The bass on Fingerprint File and Emotional Rescue are examples of just going a different way. It's not like Bill couldn't handle funk, see Miss You, and when the band backed up Preston in '75.
And Bill didn't improve some songs live? First off, he could have easily done the bass part on the studio version of Live With Me, but he kicks down the damn door with his bass on the Ya Ya's version.
Jimmy only played on the last part of TD.
Ronnie played drums on "Sleep Tonight", according to Wiki.
Dandy--I never understood how there could be two drummers on TD. How did that actually work, I wonder? And I supremely hope that it is Charlie at the 3:03 mark of this link ... otherwise I may weep for the rest of the day:
[www.youtube.com]
Yep, that's Ronnie. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig are also playing on a few songs on DW. Not sure if Fig played drums, though.
Basically Keith solo sessions, those were...
Looks like you missed Slipping Away, You Don't Have To Mean It, and if you want to go for completion, the live versions of "Learning The Game" and "Nearness Of You".
Dancing With Mr D
Agreed, however I don't see why he'd get writing credits when he wasn't writing anything.
It's amazing isn't it, the things that are posted here.
Never heard Keith say that. Heard him say a band is not a band without playing them live, etc., and that he enjoys and thrives off the band playing live but never anything about the live versions are the definitive versions of the tunes. And considering how close to the recorded versions the live arrangements, solos and rhythm work is I'd say quite the opposite. Love to hear the Keith quotes you are referring to.
For pure listening pleasure I've always thought the well worked and produced studio versions were best although there are exceptions, especially when MT was with the band. I not saying the Stones haven't completely burned on live tunes, to devastating effect, just that the records tend to be close to perfection song and sound wise. Live shows have so much else going on, the song sometimes tend to get diluted by the show, where as in the studio, it's all about the song.
peace
He played on TWO songs on EXILE and the very ending of a third. That's it. So those three are the best? Oh wait, you said "some" of the best.
Playing cowbell is not playing the drums, it's playing cowbell - something a cow can do.
And the fact that Mick sings the lead vocals on Connection.
Can't underestimate the effect Jimmy Millers drumming abilities had on the Stones tunes. He picked the best takes and was a master at hearing the ones where the groove was right. I'm sure he did plenty in the studio to insure the Stones were rhythmically on track. Jimmy was to the Stones what George Martin was to the Beatles, imo and besides Some Girls they haven't come close to making the suberb records they did under his tutelage. peace
You are a bold faced liar:
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2015 16:56
Quote
ROLLINGSTONEQuote
LongBeachArena72
Have always wondered about something:
Is this an unusual amount of "A" grade songs for an essential member of the band NOT to have played on?
Ruby Tuesday - Bill on bass
Let's Spend the Night Together
Sympathy for the Devil - Bill on maracas and back up vocals
Street Fighting Man
Live With Me
Happy
Rip This Joint
All Down the Line - Bill on the second bass
Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)
Silver Train
If You Can't Rock Me
It's Only Rock'n'Roll
Crazy Mama
Some Girls - Bill on synthesiser
Shattered
Emotional Rescue - Bill on synthesiser
Hang Fire
Pretty Beat Up - Bill on electric piano
Tie You Up
Maybe no big deal, to have missed that many over a LONG career. And perhaps Richards and Watts have missed some, too ... but surely not even close to as many as Bill.
Not a knock on Bill; love him; just was struck by this.[/quote
Everyone and his dog is on It's Only Rock N RollDoes he not play synth on Emotional Rescue?
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
Chess4710
()
Date: January 30, 2015 17:24
Starting around Between The Buttons, Keith took charge of the music to the point where he was the unofficial musical director. He was forceful enough to take over the instrumentation: bass on several tracks, most guitars, some keyboards here and there. He continued from there til his heroin addiction overrode his self-control about '73 or so, but even then he was manning the bass a fair amount. I always felt that Bill either felt a loyalty to the cause, or simply wanted to continue in the job of Rolling Stones bassist, even if that was mainly relegated to live performances. Personally I don't see it as Bill being the inferior bassist, I consider him to be light years better than Keith and/or Ron, it's just the way everything shook out.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: January 30, 2015 17:25
Wyman does play synth on ER.
Wyman is also not on...
Fight (Ronnie)
Hold Back (Ivan Neville)
Too Rude (Ronnie)
Winning Ugly (John Regan?)
Back To Zero (Ronnie)
Sleep Tonight (Keith)
Sad Sad Sad (Ronnie)
Hold On To Your Hat (Ronnie)
Continental Drift (Ronnie)
Break The Spell (Ronnie)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-30 17:25 by GasLightStreet.
Wyman is also not on...
Fight (Ronnie)
Hold Back (Ivan Neville)
Too Rude (Ronnie)
Winning Ugly (John Regan?)
Back To Zero (Ronnie)
Sleep Tonight (Keith)
Sad Sad Sad (Ronnie)
Hold On To Your Hat (Ronnie)
Continental Drift (Ronnie)
Break The Spell (Ronnie)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-30 17:25 by GasLightStreet.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 30, 2015 18:37
Add Tumbling Dice, which was Taylor.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: January 30, 2015 18:43
its amazing he stayed in the band as long as he did. 30 years is a long to put up with Keith and all his crap.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2015 20:05
Coming Down Again and Fingerprint File - Taylor on bass
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: January 30, 2015 20:20
I've always been curious as to how Bill would have handled Jumpin' Jack Flash (which he claims to have come up with the main riff for). I personally like the way Keith plays against the main riff, hanging on the root. Bill probably would have played the riff though, as he does live for the most part.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
Pietro
()
Date: January 30, 2015 22:33
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-30 22:43 by Pietro.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-30 22:43 by Pietro.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 30, 2015 22:40
Jimmy played on half of TD and Happy...
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
brownsugar86
()
Date: January 30, 2015 23:45
Quote
vertigojoe
Woah.
I have to say the under appreciation of Wyman for me is perhaps the biggest own goal in the entire career of the RS.
He should have been cherished, loved whatever but all he ever got was the piss taken. On an epic scale. Pure British class snobbery of the time from the middle class Jagger and Jones, and to a lesser extent, Richards.
So he left in 93 and what we have had since then is "Plastic dry f$%k" or whatever Gram's comment on The Eagles was..
Great post. I don't understand why they took the piss out of Bill?
With the exception of Keith and staying up all night taking drugs he seems no more different as a person than the rest of the band. And if it's because he's seen as boring, why did Charlie never get the piss taken out of him?
I guess we don't know them personally and only have interview footage and books to go by.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-31 00:37 by brownsugar86.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: January 31, 2015 00:22
Quote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
I only get:
YCAGWYW
Tumbling Dice
Shine a Light
Happy
IORR
Which is not even close to the no-Wyman list. What am I missing? What else did Charlie not play on?
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: January 31, 2015 00:31
Quote
bleedingman
I've always been curious as to how Bill would have handled Jumpin' Jack Flash (which he claims to have come up with the main riff for). I personally like the way Keith plays against the main riff, hanging on the root. Bill probably would have played the riff though, as he does live for the most part.
I always considered the bass on JJF to be played in a Wymanesque way. Bill plays against the main riff on Satisfaction. There are very few APlus Stones that Bill is not. He definitely kicks off Exile on Rocks Off. I think Mick Taylor was a much better 'Stones' bass player than Keith. And think of how much better some of those songs could have been if Bill had played on them
Is the bass on Happy any different than Bill would have played it? Is the bass on Shattered all that? The bass on Fingerprint File and Emotional Rescue are examples of just going a different way. It's not like Bill couldn't handle funk, see Miss You, and when the band backed up Preston in '75.
And Bill didn't improve some songs live? First off, he could have easily done the bass part on the studio version of Live With Me, but he kicks down the damn door with his bass on the Ya Ya's version.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 31, 2015 00:35
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
I only get:
YCAGWYW
Tumbling Dice
Shine a Light
Happy
IORR
Which is not even close to the no-Wyman list. What am I missing? What else did Charlie not play on?
Jimmy only played on the last part of TD.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
bleedingman
()
Date: January 31, 2015 00:55
Quote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
Ronnie played drums on "Sleep Tonight", according to Wiki.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: January 31, 2015 00:55
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
I only get:
YCAGWYW
Tumbling Dice
Shine a Light
Happy
IORR
Which is not even close to the no-Wyman list. What am I missing? What else did Charlie not play on?
Jimmy only played on the last part of TD.
Dandy--I never understood how there could be two drummers on TD. How did that actually work, I wonder? And I supremely hope that it is Charlie at the 3:03 mark of this link ... otherwise I may weep for the rest of the day:
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 31, 2015 01:01
Quote
bleedingmanQuote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
Ronnie played drums on "Sleep Tonight", according to Wiki.
Yep, that's Ronnie. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig are also playing on a few songs on DW. Not sure if Fig played drums, though.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 31, 2015 05:38
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
bleedingmanQuote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
Ronnie played drums on "Sleep Tonight", according to Wiki.
Yep, that's Ronnie. Steve Jordan and Anton Fig are also playing on a few songs on DW. Not sure if Fig played drums, though.
Basically Keith solo sessions, those were...
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: January 31, 2015 15:54
Oh my God....here we go again....
So-called fans being unaware of the basics...brushing aside, ignoring Bill.
So-called fans being unaware of the basics...brushing aside, ignoring Bill.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
theimposter
()
Date: January 31, 2015 19:01
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowderman
Bill was great for the Stones, but using a different bass track doesn't mean that he was under-appreaciated in any way. When you're focusing on making the best album possible, you'll make decisions you think will serve the album best. Only VERY FEW times were his tracks wiped. Some times he wasn't there.
Exactly...and here are the number of times Jagger's lead vocal wasn't 'required':
Connection
In Another Land
Salt of the Earth (intro)
You Got The Silver
Happy
Coming Down Again
Memory Motel (~1/4 of the song)
Before They Make Me Run
All About You
Little T & A
Wanna Hold You
Sleep Tonight
Can't Be Seen
The Worst
Thru and Thru
Thief In The Night
How Can I Stop
Losing My Touch
This Place Is Empty
Infamy
Soul Survivor
We Had It All
I'm sure I missed a couple...anyone?
EDIT
OF COURSE, the best part of Gimme Shelter!
Looks like you missed Slipping Away, You Don't Have To Mean It, and if you want to go for completion, the live versions of "Learning The Game" and "Nearness Of You".
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
GJV
()
Date: January 31, 2015 19:26
Hum... it's strange to count songs which are recorded AFTER he left the band.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't read it well enough, it's now about Jagger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-31 19:46 by GJV.
Edit: Sorry, I didn't read it well enough, it's now about Jagger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-01-31 19:46 by GJV.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
smokeydusky
()
Date: January 31, 2015 20:12
Quote
LongBeachArena72
Have always wondered about something:
Is this an unusual amount of "A" grade songs for an essential member of the band NOT to have played on?
Ruby Tuesday
Let's Spend the Night Together
Sympathy for the Devil
Street Fighting Man
Live With Me
Happy
Rip This Joint
All Down the Line
Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)
Silver Train
If You Can't Rock Me
It's Only Rock'n'Roll
Crazy Mama
Some Girls
Shattered
Emotional Rescue
Hang Fire
Pretty Beat Up
Tie You Up
Maybe no big deal, to have missed that many over a LONG career. And perhaps Richards and Watts have missed some, too ... but surely not even close to as many as Bill.
Not a knock on Bill; love him; just was struck by this.
Dancing With Mr D
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: January 31, 2015 20:17
Quote
Naturalust
...I imagine since he knew he'd never get writing credits on any of them, that it took some of the incentive to contribute his talents to the studio recordings. peace
Agreed, however I don't see why he'd get writing credits when he wasn't writing anything.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: January 31, 2015 22:32
Quote
emotionalbarbecue
Oh my God....here we go again....
So-called fans being unaware of the basics...brushing aside, ignoring Bill.
It's amazing isn't it, the things that are posted here.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: January 31, 2015 23:28
The Glimmers were without prejudice when it came to who played. It was what they perceived sounded best for the song at that moment is what I believe guided them. The parts Bill did play speaks volumes as well as the enormous body of great band leading bass playing he contributed to their concerts. Keith is the first to admit that the concerts not the records are the definitive versions of Stones songs.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 1, 2015 00:42
Quote
DoomandGloom
Keith is the first to admit that the concerts not the records are the definitive versions of Stones songs.
Never heard Keith say that. Heard him say a band is not a band without playing them live, etc., and that he enjoys and thrives off the band playing live but never anything about the live versions are the definitive versions of the tunes. And considering how close to the recorded versions the live arrangements, solos and rhythm work is I'd say quite the opposite. Love to hear the Keith quotes you are referring to.
For pure listening pleasure I've always thought the well worked and produced studio versions were best although there are exceptions, especially when MT was with the band. I not saying the Stones haven't completely burned on live tunes, to devastating effect, just that the records tend to be close to perfection song and sound wise. Live shows have so much else going on, the song sometimes tend to get diluted by the show, where as in the studio, it's all about the song.
peace
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: February 1, 2015 01:09
Quote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
He played on TWO songs on EXILE and the very ending of a third. That's it. So those three are the best? Oh wait, you said "some" of the best.
Playing cowbell is not playing the drums, it's playing cowbell - something a cow can do.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: February 1, 2015 01:23
Quote
theimposterQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowderman
Bill was great for the Stones, but using a different bass track doesn't mean that he was under-appreaciated in any way. When you're focusing on making the best album possible, you'll make decisions you think will serve the album best. Only VERY FEW times were his tracks wiped. Some times he wasn't there.
Exactly...and here are the number of times Jagger's lead vocal wasn't 'required':
Connection
In Another Land
Salt of the Earth (intro)
You Got The Silver
Happy
Coming Down Again
Memory Motel (~1/4 of the song)
Before They Make Me Run
All About You
Little T & A
Wanna Hold You
Sleep Tonight
Can't Be Seen
The Worst
Thru and Thru
Thief In The Night
How Can I Stop
Losing My Touch
This Place Is Empty
Infamy
Soul Survivor
We Had It All
I'm sure I missed a couple...anyone?
EDIT
OF COURSE, the best part of Gimme Shelter!
Looks like you missed Slipping Away, You Don't Have To Mean It, and if you want to go for completion, the live versions of "Learning The Game" and "Nearness Of You".
And the fact that Mick sings the lead vocals on Connection.
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: February 1, 2015 01:41
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
Pietro
You could make a similar list of songs Charlie Watts didn't play on. Jimmy Miller was an excellent drummer. He played on some of the best songs on "Exile." Hell, he played the cowbell on "Honky Tonk Women."
He played on TWO songs on EXILE and the very ending of a third. That's it. So those three are the best? Oh wait, you said "some" of the best.
Playing cowbell is not playing the drums, it's playing cowbell - something a cow can do.
Can't underestimate the effect Jimmy Millers drumming abilities had on the Stones tunes. He picked the best takes and was a master at hearing the ones where the groove was right. I'm sure he did plenty in the studio to insure the Stones were rhythmically on track. Jimmy was to the Stones what George Martin was to the Beatles, imo and besides Some Girls they haven't come close to making the suberb records they did under his tutelage. peace
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: February 1, 2015 02:53
The quote goes some thing like 'we never get the songs right till we work them on stage and it's a shame most of the time the records come before the tours'...Quote
NaturalustQuote
DoomandGloom
Keith is the first to admit that the concerts not the records are the definitive versions of Stones songs.
Never heard Keith say that. Heard him say a band is not a band without playing them live, etc., and that he enjoys and thrives off the band playing live but never anything about the live versions are the definitive versions of the tunes. And considering how close to the recorded versions the live arrangements, solos and rhythm work is I'd say quite the opposite. Love to hear the Keith quotes you are referring to.
For pure listening pleasure I've always thought the well worked and produced studio versions were best although there are exceptions, especially when MT was with the band. I not saying the Stones haven't completely burned on live tunes, to devastating effect, just that the records tend to be close to perfection song and sound wise. Live shows have so much else going on, the song sometimes tend to get diluted by the show, where as in the studio, it's all about the song.
peace
Re: Wyman: What if anything are we to make of this?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: February 1, 2015 02:58
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
theimposterQuote
treaclefingersQuote
DandelionPowderman
Bill was great for the Stones, but using a different bass track doesn't mean that he was under-appreaciated in any way. When you're focusing on making the best album possible, you'll make decisions you think will serve the album best. Only VERY FEW times were his tracks wiped. Some times he wasn't there.
Exactly...and here are the number of times Jagger's lead vocal wasn't 'required':
Connection
In Another Land
Salt of the Earth (intro)
You Got The Silver
Happy
Coming Down Again
Memory Motel (~1/4 of the song)
Before They Make Me Run
All About You
Little T & A
Wanna Hold You
Sleep Tonight
Can't Be Seen
The Worst
Thru and Thru
Thief In The Night
How Can I Stop
Losing My Touch
This Place Is Empty
Infamy
Soul Survivor
We Had It All
I'm sure I missed a couple...anyone?
EDIT
OF COURSE, the best part of Gimme Shelter!
Looks like you missed Slipping Away, You Don't Have To Mean It, and if you want to go for completion, the live versions of "Learning The Game" and "Nearness Of You".
And the fact that Mick sings the lead vocals on Connection.
You are a bold faced liar:
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