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Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:33

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DandelionPowderman
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Winning Ugly VXII
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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

Guy. The song is over 20 years old.

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

Voodoo Lounge Tour / Bridges to Babylon Tour / No Security Tour / Licks Tour / A Bigger Bang Tour .


1994 / 1995 / 1997 / 1998 / 1999 / 2002 / 2003 / 2005 / part of 2006 .

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well. I personally witnessed "You Got Me Rocking" being performed in that section on September 5th,2002 so don't bother telling me that it didn't happen. It is pretty well documented. I was not the only person there. So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In addition,"YGMR" is usually played as 1 of the first 3 songs of the show but,I guess that is not the "warhorse" section.

Guess what. "Tumbling Dice" has not been played regularly in ' end of the set list warhorse section ' since 1982 except for the 1997 to 1999 era and except for a very small number of shows during the past 12 + years.

It doesn't have warhorse status, no matter how you twist it.

In fact, I have never seen a fan call it a warhorse ever before now.

You forgot one important point: The song has to be really well-known...

Once again,I have only stated facts about "You Got Me Rocking".

Nothing is being twisted. In fact,quite the opposite is true. Facts PREVENT things from becoming twisted.

I think that focusing on the part of the show where a song is played regardless of the number of times a song is played is much closer to twisting things than stating pure statistics.

" You Got Me Rocking " was widely discussed on this board as a warhorse circa 2005 / 2006. Many people had enough of it at that point and were calling for it to be dropped from the set list. That may actually have been part of the reason that they eased up on playing it as the 2006 tour went along. You never know but,the protests were lengthy and heated. There were a few " You Got Me Rocking " supporters but,they were vastly outnumbered.

Anyway,aren't you the same guy who said that "Street Fighting Man" was never a warhorse,not even 1969 through 1976 (or,really through the very early part of the 1978 tour) despite the fact that it was nearly always played at almost every concert during that period .... very often as the encore ??

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:43

YGMR is not a warhorse. SFM should have remained a warhorse.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:45

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DandelionPowderman
Just take a minute and think over what the word really means.

Um........directly above your post is this post in which I wrote :

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Winning Ugly VXII
The term ' warhorse ' is used to describe the most frequently performed songs.

It is not used to describe songs that people would be disappointed not to hear. Neither is it used to describe songs purely by their popularity.

If that were the case,then "Time Is On My Side" would be a warhorse .
.

What other description do you want ?? A horse brought into a war ??

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:48

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Just take a minute and think over what the word really means.

Um........directly above your post is this post in which I wrote :

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
The term ' warhorse ' is used to describe the most frequently performed songs.

It is not used to describe songs that people would be disappointed not to hear. Neither is it used to describe songs purely by their popularity.

If that were the case,then "Time Is On My Side" would be a warhorse .
.

What other description do you want ?? A horse brought into a war ??

Now you're getting somewhere! You wouldn't count on the obscure ones, would you?

YGMR is a #2/#3-song that the band enjoys playing, not a warhorse that the band thinks people would be disappointed not to hear on every show.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-22 18:49 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 18:50

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DandelionPowderman
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angee
Wow, we have a number of major disagreements here.

I rather like this from someone who has seen them three times over a twenty year period:

"Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely..."

As far as "Miss You," just looking at Side 1, I can find at least two songs I like better, SG, and BoB, and all of them are decent:

Disc 1

1. Miss You
2. When The Whip Comes Down
3. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
4. Some Girls
5. Lies
6. Far Away Eyes
7. Respectable
8. Before They Make Me Run
9. Beast of Burden
10. Shattered

We all got our opinions, our 2 cents, our two pence, for what they're worth.

Interesting stuff, anyway.

I love BOB as well, and SG is my favourite album. But I think Miss You made this album big.

That's different than being the best track on the LP. It's good, alright, and it is the biggest song on the LP because it was a single but it's not the best song on the LP!!!!

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:51

Quote
DandelionPowderman
YGMR is not a warhorse. SFM should have remained a warhorse.

Wow. Your argument is so detailed and convincing and is supported by so many facts and data that you have now won me over.

" Mr. Last Word / Mr. Ultimate Authority " .

YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.


YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.YGMR is not a warhorse.

Convincing as can be. H*** of a job.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 18:52

I think it is. I haven't always thought so, but I do now.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 18:53

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DandelionPowderman
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GasLightStreet
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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

For me, Miss You is the best track on the album. For millions of others as well, I reckon.

Unfortunately you're wrong, it is.

Miss You the best track on SOME GIRLS?

HA HA HA HA HA!

Come ON! You've really got to think about that one.

The studio version on MY is up there with the best they ever did, imo.

Most fans at shows don't have a clue about what YGMR is or sounds like - hence it wouldn't even help them over a tiny creek in the war.

I wish I could agree with you - overall even. I wish it wasn't a warhorse. However, a recent youtube of them playing it in Brisbane (I think) reveals that the audience likes to go HEY HEY over and over... which means they know the song... as uneventful as it is... it was a single afterall. And they've played it past its death on every tour since it came out... it's the newest warhorse. You'll just have to accept it.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 19:09

They don't have to know it to go "hey hey". A monkey could do that.

They can play Popey The Sailor as song #2, and people would scream and shout the same way.

But try to put this song near the end with the others and see what happens...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-22 19:10 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 19:53

Quote
DandelionPowderman
They don't have to know it to go "hey hey". A monkey could do that.

They can play Popey The Sailor as song #2, and people would scream and shout the same way.

But try to put this song near the end with the others and see what happens...

I know they don't and I know a monkey could but... they do!

That Popeye The Sailor thing has always been such a crock of shit! They never played that!

Have the Stones ever put YRMR towards the end of the setlist? I can't recall. You know they put it towards the front to get people up, because Mick was a butcher cutting up meat AND he was a boxer that came in off the street... or something.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 19:55

You got it.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 19:56

Yes. " You Got Me Rocking " has been in the warhorse section at the end of the set. Early 1997 as well as 2002 just off of the top of my head.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:03

It was at Soldier's Field, but of course it didn't stay there for long...

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:12

1997 Columbus , 1997 Winnipeg , 1997 Edmonton + 2002 multiple times.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 20:17

Quote
DandelionPowderman
It was at Soldier's Field, but of course it didn't stay there for long...

Soldier Field... you really have to get that correct. People in Chicago get PISSED when you say Soldier's Field... it was named for soldiers that died in wars, not for a specific soldier...

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:18

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It was at Soldier's Field, but of course it didn't stay there for long...

Soldier Field... you really have to get that correct. People in Chicago get PISSED when you say Soldier's Field... it was named for soldiers that died in wars, not for a specific soldier...

Sorry, soldierS.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 20:19

Have you ever been to a Bears game at Soldier Field? I went to three - and they lost all of them.

Pretty cool though. Well, actually, one game was outright cold...

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:29

Quote
GasLightStreet
Have you ever been to a Bears game at Soldier Field? I went to three - and they lost all of them.

Pretty cool though. Well, actually, one game was outright cold...

The only time I've been to Chicago I actually played concerts myself. Luckily indoors smiling smiley

Didn't the Stones do an outdoor show in the winter there a few years ago?

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: November 22, 2014 20:34



[Pquote=Witness]
Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.smiling smiley

..................................

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

...........................................

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well
................................................
So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

.........................................................


Anyway, sometimes it is wonderful with some passion.
I can't claim to be incontestably right in the following and consequently I will run the risk of passing as one that has no idea of what I am talking about. Be that as it may:

I think that warhorse is not necessarily a pure and welldefined statistical concept. Rather it applies to songs that are relatively wellknown in the minds of the concertgoers as Stones-songs.

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Miss You is the best song of the album. ...................

......................................

And regarding your first statement in that post,no, "Miss You" is not the best song of the album.

My subjective view is that "Miss You" is one of three songs that stand out on SOME GIRLS.

Apart from that and even more important, quite remarkable and possibly controversial, somehow "Miss You" emerges to me as a song that is one late occasion when the Stones once again contribute to define what rock and underlying genres popular music is to be conceived as, without there being any nostalgia involved.[/quote]

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 20:37

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
GasLightStreet
Have you ever been to a Bears game at Soldier Field? I went to three - and they lost all of them.

Pretty cool though. Well, actually, one game was outright cold...

The only time I've been to Chicago I actually played concerts myself. Luckily indoors smiling smiley

Didn't the Stones do an outdoor show in the winter there a few years ago?

I think so. It was the 35th visit on the 8 year long ABB tour... 248 people showed up.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:37

Ha ha, good one, Schillid grinning smiley

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 20:46

Stones played Chicago only 3 times on the ABB tour.

9-10-05 Soldier Field
1-23-06 United Center
1-25-06 United Center

I thought they played there more times than that and the last show was outside in the freezing cold?

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 20:59

They played late Oct/early Nov, but it might have been another Chicago stadium.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 21:07

Quote
schillid


[Pquote=Witness]
Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.smiling smiley

..................................

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

...........................................

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well.
................................................
So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

.........................................................


Anyway, sometimes it is wonderful with some passion.
I can't claim to be incontestably right in the following and consequently I will run the risk of passing as one that has no idea of what I am talking about. Be that as it may:

I think that warhorse is not necessarily a pure and welldefined statistical concept. Rather it applies to songs that are relatively wellknown in the minds of the concertgoers as Stones-songs.

Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Miss You is the best song of the album. ...................

If you go by that standard for a warhorse,then " Emotional Rescue " , " Time Is On My Side " ( despite that it is not an original Stones composition ), and " Waiting On A Friend" would be considered as warhorses ..... which they are not ..... as far as I know.

Anyway,I didn't mean to mess up this thread. This part of it may need to be separated out into another thread.

I just can't stand revisionist history. I also can't stand the claim of people who say these warhorses are their best songs because,when it comes down to it,I believe that they would be saying the same thing if the list of warhorses was slightly different.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 22, 2014 21:07

I did miss it:

10-11-06 Soldier Field

That was the poorly attended show that was 40 degrees or something like that.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 21:11

Quote
schillid


[Pquote=Witness]
Quote
Winning Ugly VXII
Quote
DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.smiling smiley

..................................

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

...........................................

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well.
................................................
So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

.........................................................


Anyway, sometimes it is wonderful with some passion.
I can't claim to be incontestably right in the following and consequently I will run the risk of passing as one that has no idea of what I am talking about. Be that as it may:

I think that warhorse is not necessarily a pure and welldefined statistical concept. Rather it applies to songs that are relatively wellknown in the minds of the concertgoers as Stones-songs.

If you go by that standard for a warhorse,then " Emotional Rescue " , " Time Is On My Side " ( despite that it is not an original Stones composition ), and " Waiting On A Friend" would be considered as warhorses ..... which they are not ..... as far as I know.

Anyway,I didn't mean to mess up this thread. This part of it may need to be separated out into another thread.

I just can't stand revisionist history. I also can't stand the claim of people who say these warhorses are their best songs because,when it comes down to it,I believe that they would be saying the same thing if the list of warhorses was slightly different.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-22 21:15 by Winning Ugly VXII.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 22, 2014 22:05

Do you really believe that ALL the fans, tourists included, are demanding to hear ER or TIOMS - or worse, do you believe that this is what I'm saying?

They can play YGMR a zillion times. It still won't become a warhorse. It's only a fun number for the band to play, not one of their most well-known songs that the band believes everyone wants to hear.

This is my last warhorse-post!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-22 22:22 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: November 22, 2014 23:01

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
DandelionPowderman
They don't have to know it to go "hey hey". A monkey could do that.

They can play Popey The Sailor as song #2, and people would scream and shout the same way.

But try to put this song near the end with the others and see what happens...

I know they don't and I know a monkey could but... they do!

That Popeye The Sailor thing has always been such a crock of shit! They never played that!

Have the Stones ever put YRMR towards the end of the setlist? I can't recall. You know they put it towards the front to get people up, because Mick was a butcher cutting up meat AND he was a boxer that came in off the street... or something.

I believe that tune is called Sailor's Hornpipe and it is a screamin' bluegrass number, fun to play and requires some chops to pull it off well. peace

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 23, 2014 00:20

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Do you really believe that ALL the fans, tourists included, are demanding to hear ER or TIOMS - or worse, do you believe that this is what I'm saying?

They can play YGMR a zillion times. It still won't become a warhorse. It's only a fun number for the band to play, not one of their most well-known songs that the band believes everyone wants to hear.

This is my last warhorse-post!

I was actually quoting Schillid who said : " I think that warhorse is not necessarily a pure and welldefined statistical concept. Rather it applies to songs that are relatively wellknown in the minds of the concertgoers as Stones-songs. "

" Emotional Rescue " , " Time Is On My Side " , and " Waiting On a Friend " are examples of songs which fall into that category but are not warhorses. Most casual fans these days probably do not even know that " Time Is On My Side " is not an original Stones composition.

My point is that what makes a warhorse IS the number of times that they play a song. Otherwise,the term would not be needed. You could just say ' most popular songs' .

Also,I do not believe that ALL the fans, tourists included, are demanding to hear more than 5 or 6 songs. I don't believe that they ALL are demanding to hear " Honkey Tonk Women " for an example. It's different for different people. I know that some of them are expecting and / or wanting to hear popular songs which do not get performed.

Re: Did Mick Taylor perform on Silver Train last night?
Date: November 23, 2014 00:32

Well, let's agree to disagree on that.

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