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71Tele

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Stoneburst

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DandelionPowderman
On both occasions it sounded like they hadn't decided who was gonna do the intro...

And, in Brisbane, like they hadn't agreed on who was meant to take which guitar solo.

I think Silver Train might come off better if Jagger played harp throughout (as he does on the record) rather than just at the end. It just doesn't sound as good without that part, and getting Ronnie to mimic his playing on slide doesn't work as well as it should.

Btw, I agree with your observation that it's strange how they can't do simple rock songs anymore, but can do convincing versions of more complex arrangements like Memory Motel and what have you. Again, Sway is a good case in point. It has three chords (or four, depending on how you play the turnaround), a medium tempo and is played in 4/4, yet they butcher the feel of it every time. Doesn't make sense.

The timing of the intro bit on Sway is kind of tricky, to be fair.

They don't have to start it together, or repeating the intro. On SF it's just the guitar, and then the drums come in - on the beat.

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Justin


Really nice rhythm playing by somebody...not sure if it's Keith or Taylor; sounded great. A rocky performance but slightly better than the first run even though it still needs tightening in some places---I doubt it'll be played again. Not sure why they gave Ronnie a solo...it only made the song unnecessarily longer. Give Taylor the solo and call it a day.

That's what I heard instantly too--great rhythm playing by...somebody. I think it was Taylor, actually. I couldn't really pick Keith out very well, I don't think. But maybe it was him.

It was Keith

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Blueranger
As one poster commented, I could go see Yanni or Dire Straits instead if I wanted to see and hear technically superior music, but I am not looking for perfection or great technique with the Stones in their playing. It has never been about that anyway, as we all know. What I need and miss with them is the afformentioned swagger and they simply have lost that with age.

We need to talk about this Yanni fixation, Blueranger.

Greetings iorr faithful, have loved this forum for a long time and have finally stepped up..
I thought it was great, I mean they can trainwreck Satisfaction the odd occasion if you want to really get picky! There's a real growling meanness in the guitars, I love it, good on them, Mick Taylors's solo is devine, when he switches to the neck pick up and the strat turns glassy valve heaven tone..., that alone is worth it. The song choices show (we got four Keith songs here in Perth)the band are feeling comfortable to go and explore the best back catalogue in rock n roll.
The Third time I've seen them (95, 03) and this tour was the best. Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely, check the Sydney version of SHV on youtube, Keith and Ronnies "weaving" is such a joy.
I mean really, the band that keeps giving, I really never thought that those guitar players could play like they did when I saw them, Keith jogging around the tongue soloing and not hitting one bummy note, wow Thank You seventy year old Stones, thank you very much!!

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gotdablouse
All good points, and as you point out let's not lose track of the fact that the so called "war horses" are in fact the best songs!

No. Not all of the warhorses are their best songs. " Miss You " is not even the best song on its album. Neither is " You Got Me Rocking " the best song on its album.

If you're going to argue chart position,then " It's Only Rock 'n' Roll ( But I Like It ) " would be out of the war horse line up in favor of something else more successful in the charts.

Miss You is the best song of the album. YGMR is not a warhorse

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gotdablouse

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alieb
I think the general consensus of this thread is: more messy deep(ish) cuts and less clean war horses!

Taking this a bit further, I was thinking about ST this afternoon and it crossed my mind that rare tracks like this one (they don't come much "rarer" with its 7 performances in 40 years) the Stones show their age, somehow the extraordinary illusion that it's still 1975 that works for the war horses and oft played songs just falters there...and it could have been worse without Keith's solid foundation.

Sure they could rehearse it enough that it works but why waste their time on this at 70+ when they can put up an amazing show that will please anyone in attendance...And like bv wrote, most of the pit was wondering what that song was about. It's just a lose/lose proposition.

The problem is that a song has to develop, even with experienced players. If you play it only once during a tour you don't have any attempts to make it better. Any band can confirm that.
This is another reason why nobody will understand the Stones basically excluding Mick Taylor from their shows.

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DandelionPowderman
Miss You is the best song of the album. YGMR is not a warhorse

" You Got Me Rocking " is not a warhorse ?? I would take a much closer look at the set lists from 1994 ( when it was released ) until whatever point it was in 2006 when they finally eased up on it .... only for it to return again repeatedly.

The only point during that stretch when it was not played regularly ( to put it mildly ) was in 1997 but,even in '97 it was played often - just not all of the time. Then it really took hold in 1998.

It was performed quite a bit when there was no " Miss You " , no " Satisfaction " , no " YCAGWYW " during that period. They probably played it more during that span than some of those warhorses.

And regarding your first statement in that post,no, "Miss You" is not the best song of the album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-21 10:13 by Winning Ugly VXII.

It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

For me, Miss You is the best track on the album. For millions of others as well, I reckon.

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

Guy. The song is over 20 years old.

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

Voodoo Lounge Tour / Bridges to Babylon Tour / No Security Tour / Licks Tour / A Bigger Bang Tour .


1994 / 1995 / 1997 / 1998 / 1999 / 2002 / 2003 / 2005 / part of 2006 .

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well. I personally witnessed "You Got Me Rocking" being performed in that section on September 5th,2002 so don't bother telling me that it didn't happen. It is pretty well documented. I was not the only person there. So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In addition,"YGMR" is usually played as 1 of the first 3 songs of the show but,I guess that is not the "warhorse" section.

Guess what. "Tumbling Dice" has not been played regularly in ' end of the set list warhorse section ' since 1982 except for the 1997 to 1999 era and except for a very small number of shows during the past 12 + years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-21 18:55 by Winning Ugly VXII.

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bluesnreds
Greetings iorr faithful, have loved this forum for a long time and have finally stepped up..
I thought it was great, I mean they can trainwreck Satisfaction the odd occasion if you want to really get picky! There's a real growling meanness in the guitars, I love it, good on them, Mick Taylors's solo is devine, when he switches to the neck pick up and the strat turns glassy valve heaven tone..., that alone is worth it. The song choices show (we got four Keith songs here in Perth)the band are feeling comfortable to go and explore the best back catalogue in rock n roll.
The Third time I've seen them (95, 03) and this tour was the best. Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely, check the Sydney version of SHV on youtube, Keith and Ronnies "weaving" is such a joy.
I mean really, the band that keeps giving, I really never thought that those guitar players could play like they did when I saw them, Keith jogging around the tongue soloing and not hitting one bummy note, wow Thank You seventy year old Stones, thank you very much!!

So, I guess you are one of those who also enjoys Chuck Berry's concerts these days... To each their own...

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Winning Ugly VXII

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

..................................

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

...........................................

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well
................................................
So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

.........................................................

Anyway, sometimes it is wonderful with some passion.
I can't claim to be incontestably right in the following and consequently I will run the risk of passing as one that has no idea of what I am talking about. Be that as it may:

I think that warhorse is not necessarily a pure and welldefined statistical concept. Rather it applies to songs that are relatively wellknown in the minds of the concertgoers as Stones-songs.

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Winning Ugly VXII

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DandelionPowderman
Miss You is the best song of the album. ...................

......................................

And regarding your first statement in that post,no, "Miss You" is not the best song of the album.

My subjective view is that "Miss You" is one of three songs that stand out on SOME GIRLS.

Apart from that and even more important, quite remarkable and possibly controversial, somehow "Miss You" emerges to me as a song that is one late occasion when the Stones once again contribute to define what rock and underlying genres popular music is to be conceived as, without there being any nostalgia involved.

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Winning Ugly VXII

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

Guy. The song is over 20 years old.

If a song is played at nearly every show for 5 tours in a row,I think that qualifies it as a warhorse.

That is especially true if it is played more than another song already agreed upon as a warhorse - which is the case here.

Voodoo Lounge Tour / Bridges to Babylon Tour / No Security Tour / Licks Tour / A Bigger Bang Tour .


1994 / 1995 / 1997 / 1998 / 1999 / 2002 / 2003 / 2005 / part of 2006 .

Warhorse section ?? The whole set list has devolved into one large warhorse section.

If you are talking about the end of the set,you are wrong there as well. I personally witnessed "You Got Me Rocking" being performed in that section on September 5th,2002 so don't bother telling me that it didn't happen. It is pretty well documented. I was not the only person there. So,thank you but,it is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

In addition,"YGMR" is usually played as 1 of the first 3 songs of the show but,I guess that is not the "warhorse" section.

Guess what. "Tumbling Dice" has not been played regularly in ' end of the set list warhorse section ' since 1982 except for the 1997 to 1999 era and except for a very small number of shows during the past 12 + years.

It doesn't have warhorse status, no matter how you twist it.

In fact, I have never seen a fan call it a warhorse ever before now.

You forgot one important point: The song has to be really well-known...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-21 21:40 by DandelionPowderman.

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Blueranger

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Stoneburst

Btw, I agree with your observation that it's strange how they can't do simple rock songs anymore, but can do convincing versions of more complex arrangements like Memory Motel and what have you. Again, Sway is a good case in point. It has three chords (or four, depending on how you play the turnaround), a medium tempo and is played in 4/4, yet they butcher the feel of it every time. Doesn't make sense.

Actually I think the reason is quite obvious. It depends on their 'swagger' and they simply can't cut it like they used to. Once upon a time, no one could play so loose and, at the same time, be so precise in delivering pure garage rock 'n' roll with such honesty and feel. Play 'L.A. Friday' and there is the ultimate proof. Of course we can argument that they are old men and therefore play like they do, but that will only justify the question if it isn't time to hang it up, or at least play something which they actually CAN play, instead of embarrasing themselves with something they CAN'T play these days.

As one poster commented, I could go see Yanni or Dire Straits instead if I wanted to see and hear technically superior music, but I am not looking for perfection or great technique with the Stones in their playing. It has never been about that anyway, as we all know. What I need and miss with them is the afformentioned swagger and they simply have lost that with age.

And when they do that people complain that they only play the "warhorses"...people who aren't at the show obviously because I have yet to hear someone at a show complain that they played JJF instead of One Hit.

Yeah they're old men and it's rather miraculous they can pull off capable and crowd pleasing versions of their greatest songs, so why hang it up? As long as they can keep it up most of us will feel like we're the same age we were when we first heard them...priceless!

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-22 01:28 by gotdablouse.

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schillid

Throughout the whole song Taylor is dissatisfied with his levels. Who would be responsible for him?

He's been asking to be turned UP since the first show at the O2 two years ago! Some here have said it was a sign of "stress" and possibly a reason they don't want to stress him out more by having him on stage too often, who knows...

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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Maindefender

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schillid

Throughout the whole song Taylor is dissatisfied with his levels. Who would be responsible for him?

Pierre, I believe.

Wow, we have a number of major disagreements here.

I rather like this from someone who has seen them three times over a twenty year period:

"Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely..."

As far as "Miss You," just looking at Side 1, I can find at least two songs I like better, SG, and BoB, and all of them are decent:

Disc 1

1. Miss You
2. When The Whip Comes Down
3. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
4. Some Girls
5. Lies
6. Far Away Eyes
7. Respectable
8. Before They Make Me Run
9. Beast of Burden
10. Shattered

We all got our opinions, our 2 cents, our two pence, for what they're worth.

Interesting stuff, anyway.

~"Love is Strong"~

Alot of interesting conversions going on here..

Tele- This is the way it is from now on - in regards to Ronnie playing Taylors leads
or vice-versa. When these 3 guys are together, three guitarists are gonna play,
for the most part.. Solidly agree with you and all the others asking for MORE
INCLUSION of TAYLOR on other songs, ADLT, Dead Flowers and dare I say:
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE - if this TUNE isn't the ANTHEM for the ROLLINGS STONES right now I don't know what is.... O PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MLC

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Blueranger

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bluesnreds
Greetings iorr faithful, have loved this forum for a long time and have finally stepped up..
I thought it was great, I mean they can trainwreck Satisfaction the odd occasion if you want to really get picky! There's a real growling meanness in the guitars, I love it, good on them, Mick Taylors's solo is devine, when he switches to the neck pick up and the strat turns glassy valve heaven tone..., that alone is worth it. The song choices show (we got four Keith songs here in Perth)the band are feeling comfortable to go and explore the best back catalogue in rock n roll.
The Third time I've seen them (95, 03) and this tour was the best. Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely, check the Sydney version of SHV on youtube, Keith and Ronnies "weaving" is such a joy.
I mean really, the band that keeps giving, I really never thought that those guitar players could play like they did when I saw them, Keith jogging around the tongue soloing and not hitting one bummy note, wow Thank You seventy year old Stones, thank you very much!!

So, I guess you are one of those who also enjoys Chuck Berry's concerts these days... To each their own...

What do you really expect? A perfect rendition ?They are way past their peak everyone knows this, they played a track they have only played a few times a bit rough,this is what happens in a live band? but to me i respect they did it, and there is some great moments in there. Mick Taylor playing slide again with the Rolling Stones?In context of recent tours they are on point and played a great gig for a band of seventy year olds? Im glad im "one of those" who enjoys a stones gig these days, an awful lot of punters in Australia feel the same!

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneburst
I quite enjoyed that, the trainwreck after Taylor's solo notwithstanding

Trainwreck before his solo as well

It was nice that they played it, but it doesn't work very well, imo.

That was awful. Holy crap. Wow. What are there, 12 words to the song and Jagger couldn't remember them!? UGH. Sounds like a garage band slaughtering the Stones.

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

For me, Miss You is the best track on the album. For millions of others as well, I reckon.

Unfortunately you're wrong, it is.

Miss You the best track on SOME GIRLS?

HA HA HA HA HA!

Come ON! You've really got to think about that one.

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angee
Wow, we have a number of major disagreements here.

I rather like this from someone who has seen them three times over a twenty year period:

"Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely..."

As far as "Miss You," just looking at Side 1, I can find at least two songs I like better, SG, and BoB, and all of them are decent:

Disc 1

1. Miss You
2. When The Whip Comes Down
3. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
4. Some Girls
5. Lies
6. Far Away Eyes
7. Respectable
8. Before They Make Me Run
9. Beast of Burden
10. Shattered

We all got our opinions, our 2 cents, our two pence, for what they're worth.

Interesting stuff, anyway.

Some Girls, BOB and Shattered do it for me.

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman
It's not a warhorse. It's too new, and it's not in the warhorse section. Never has been.

For me, Miss You is the best track on the album. For millions of others as well, I reckon.

Unfortunately you're wrong, it is.

Miss You the best track on SOME GIRLS?

HA HA HA HA HA!

Come ON! You've really got to think about that one.

The studio version on MY is up there with the best they ever did, imo.

Most fans at shows don't have a clue about what YGMR is or sounds like - hence it wouldn't even help them over a tiny creek in the war.

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angee
Wow, we have a number of major disagreements here.

I rather like this from someone who has seen them three times over a twenty year period:

"Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely..."

As far as "Miss You," just looking at Side 1, I can find at least two songs I like better, SG, and BoB, and all of them are decent:

Disc 1

1. Miss You
2. When The Whip Comes Down
3. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
4. Some Girls
5. Lies
6. Far Away Eyes
7. Respectable
8. Before They Make Me Run
9. Beast of Burden
10. Shattered

We all got our opinions, our 2 cents, our two pence, for what they're worth.

Interesting stuff, anyway.

I love BOB as well, and SG is my favourite album. But I think Miss You made this album big.

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DandelionPowderman

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angee
Wow, we have a number of major disagreements here.

I rather like this from someone who has seen them three times over a twenty year period:

"Those bloody guitar players being not so glug glug boozy/messy/bum notes etc has made ALL the difference - they are a mean loud guitar band again, Chuck and horns are not pushed up in the mix like they were in the past to cover for the sloppy guitars. Keith and ronnie would have their moments on previous recent tours but really they are so much on point this time, Keith is focused and playing lovely..."

As far as "Miss You," just looking at Side 1, I can find at least two songs I like better, SG, and BoB, and all of them are decent:

Disc 1

1. Miss You
2. When The Whip Comes Down
3. Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)
4. Some Girls
5. Lies
6. Far Away Eyes
7. Respectable
8. Before They Make Me Run
9. Beast of Burden
10. Shattered

We all got our opinions, our 2 cents, our two pence, for what they're worth.

Interesting stuff, anyway.

I love BOB as well, and SG is my favourite album. But I think Miss You made this album big.

Have to agree with Dandy all the way here. Its difficult to overstate the significance of that song in 1978. As much as fans may like Black and Blue now, or some did at the time, the Stones were left high up on the beach after that, and both Jagger and Richards were not shy in dismissing it (at the time and shortly thereafter either). Miss You was released in point position and into the teeth of the "Disco Sucks" sentiment, it laid down the rails for Some Girls, gpt the critics to pay attention, and they rode it to #1. The clip was even played on Soul Train. By the time Jesse Jackson was complaining about the lyrics on Some Girls, it was too late for him to capitalize.. Keith was a celebrity junkie (or ex Junkie) again, Jagger was royalty at Studio 54, they opened the season on SNL, they were all over the gossip pages, their back catalog was dragged back up onto the album charts and they were on their way. with Beast of Burden and Shattered to back them up. But the sequence mattered. As for YGMR... well, a fan following the tour might notice and wonder why it wasn't played a given night, and been looking forward to it.. but no tourist is going to come away from a show saying "Hey what about YGMR...??" Hence...not a warhorse...

The term ' warhorse ' is used to describe the most frequently performed songs.

It is not used to describe songs that people would be disappointed not to hear. Neither is it used to describe songs purely by their popularity.

If that were the case,then "Time Is On My Side" would be a warhorse.

Just take a minute and think over what the word really means.