Quintessential Stones attitude and grungy guitar from Mr. Jagger...What's not to like?

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DandelionPowderman

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with sssoul

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TooTough
Give me half of everything, I'll make you the world's biggest star for half

I thought it was
I'll make you the world's biggest star if I have to

Surely it's "By half"?

"By half" doesn't exist as an idiom in my dialect, so that might be why I never hear it in the song.
I quite enjoy my interpretation, though - it suits the attitude of the song very nicely!
But I'll try to hear "by half" next time. Which shall be soon - the track is mighty mighty fine

by half - by an excessive amount, or to an excessive degree

Thank you, Dande dear - I do understand the idiom. What I meant was it's not a natural part of my own dialect
so when something sounds blurry this idiom doesn't spring readily to mind.
Anyway I still like my version better :E

PS: Could some British-English speaker let me/us know if "by half" is normally used this way?
I know it in the structure too {adjective} by half - like "she's too clever by half"
but does it also work with superlatives? "She's the world's biggest star by half" ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-26 12:32 by with sssoul.

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with sssoul


PS: Could some British-English speaker let me/us know if "by half" is normally used this way?
I know it in the structure too {adjective} by half - like "she's too clever by half"
but does it also work with superlatives? "She's the world's biggest star by half" ?

Interesting question. I have always interpreted the "by half" expression to mean that "world biggest star" is actually the singer (Jagger), and the girl in question could possibly 'share' that fame/starlight with him, if he he picks her up (she thereby gets half of it, like a half of kingdom or something))... But I'm not English speaker, so I most likely am totally wrong here...

- Doxa

I think Mick is joking with the expression, within the lyrical context.

Although I'm not a native speaker, I'm interested in languages - privately and professionally - and the logic here is indeed that "by half" doesn't go well with superlatives, as "all" would be correct here?

But within the context of "gimmie half your money" etc., he might be joking by including himself in "the greatest star-term" - meaning he would deservedly get a part of that stardom.

I could be totally off here, but that's what came to mind when thinking of it.

Thanks anyway for trigging it, with sssoul

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DandelionPowderman
by half - by an excessive amount, or to an excessive degree

or at least by an extra 50%.

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Doxa

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with sssoul


PS: Could some British-English speaker let me/us know if "by half" is normally used this way?
I know it in the structure too {adjective} by half - like "she's too clever by half"
but does it also work with superlatives? "She's the world's biggest star by half" ?

Interesting question. I have always interpreted the "by half" expression to mean that "world biggest star" is actually the singer (Jagger), and the girl in question could possibly 'share' that fame/starlight with him, if he he picks her up (she thereby gets half of it, like a half of kingdom or something))... But I'm not English speaker, so I most likely am totally wrong here...

- Doxa

you're dead bang on, by half.

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DandelionPowderman
Although I'm not a native speaker, I'm interested in languages - privately and professionally - and the logic here is indeed that "by half" doesn't go well with superlatives, as "all" would be correct here?

(Everyone not interested in language close your eyes, okay?)

Dande dear, "of all" doesn't work in superlatives that already have "the world's ~est whatever";
and if the idiom "by half" works with superlatives (and it's sounding more and more natural to me the more I repeat it!)
I'd understand "she's the smartest person I know by half" means she's a lot smarter than the second-smartest person I know.
So "I'll make you the world's biggest star by half" would mean that by the time the Mick is done,
the second-biggest star in the world will be far far less famous/appreciated than this girl.

And: I see what you mean about playing with the word "half" but I still like my version better :E

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with sssoul

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DandelionPowderman
Although I'm not a native speaker, I'm interested in languages - privately and professionally - and the logic here is indeed that "by half" doesn't go well with superlatives, as "all" would be correct here?

(Everyone not interested in language close your eyes, okay?)

Dande dear, "of all" doesn't work in superlatives that already have "the world's ~est whatever";
and if the idiom "by half" works with superlatives (and it's sounding more and more natural to me the more I repeat it!)
I'd understand "she's the smartest person I know by half" means she's a lot smarter than the second-smartest person I know.
So "I'll make you the world's biggest star by half" would mean that by the time the Mick is done,
the second-biggest star in the world will be far far less famous/appreciated than this girl.

And: I see what you mean about playing with the word "half" but I still like my version better :E

Never say never...







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-08-27 11:33 by DandelionPowderman.

... I didn't say "never", Dande dear. You asked (somewhere up there) whether "all" would be "correct" here.
I was merely replying. I decline to listen to that (thanks anyway!)
but if she's singing "the world's ~est whatever of all" that's a flaming redundancy.
Of course song lyrics have their own grammar, but it's normally either "the world's ~est" or "the ~est of all", not both.

Just pulling your leg, with sssoul

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KRiffhard
I prefer this alternate take:
[www.youtube.com]

The acoustic guitar in the "Give me all your money..." part is much more prominent in this version.

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KRiffhard
I prefer this alternate take:
[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for posting the link - I'd never heard that one. Interesting to note the familiar mixed w/ the unfamiliar. Really enjoyed that! LOL line @ 5:39 "I don't want your mother - she's too goddamm old"

Great music. But the lyrics... Has Mick dated a black women ever since?

I've always thought this could be a great song to do a remix/re-edit/sample of a-la what was done with sympathy for the devil about 10 years ago, or more recently by Public Enemy with Honky Tony Rules.

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Turner68
Great music. But the lyrics... Has Mick dated a black women ever since?
.

No idea, but the lyric certainly has no truth in it; that's for certain.

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Big Al

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Turner68
Great music. But the lyrics... Has Mick dated a black women ever since?
.

, but the lyric certainly has no truth in it; that's for certain.

How do you know that?

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stanlove

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Big Al

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Turner68
Great music. But the lyrics... Has Mick dated a black women ever since?
.

, but the lyric certainly has no truth in it; that's for certain.

How do you know that?

Er, because it stands to reason that it's tongue-in-cheek nonsense, perhaps?

Relationships, past and present, lead me to 'knowing', also.

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with sssoul

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DandelionPowderman
Although I'm not a native speaker, I'm interested in languages - privately and professionally - and the logic here is indeed that "by half" doesn't go well with superlatives, as "all" would be correct here?

(Everyone not interested in language close your eyes, okay?)

Dande dear, "of all" doesn't work in superlatives that already have "the world's ~est whatever";
and if the idiom "by half" works with superlatives (and it's sounding more and more natural to me the more I repeat it!)
I'd understand "she's the smartest person I know by half" means she's a lot smarter than the second-smartest person I know.
So "I'll make you the world's biggest star by half" would mean that by the time the Mick is done,
the second-biggest star in the world will be far far less famous/appreciated than this girl...

Yes, with sssoul, I believe 'by half' can and is used with superlatives.

The phrase could be interpreted as existing on a continuum, including 'not a star', 'a bit of a star', 'a big star' 'the world's biggest star', 'the world's biggest star by half', etc.

So the girl in the song, as you suggest, would be above and beyond the world's biggest star; she would be more famous than would be necessary to make her 'the world's biggest star'.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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with sssoul

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DandelionPowderman
Although I'm not a native speaker, I'm interested in languages - privately and professionally - and the logic here is indeed that "by half" doesn't go well with superlatives, as "all" would be correct here?

(Everyone not interested in language close your eyes, okay?)

Dande dear, "of all" doesn't work in superlatives that already have "the world's ~est whatever";
and if the idiom "by half" works with superlatives (and it's sounding more and more natural to me the more I repeat it!)
I'd understand "she's the smartest person I know by half" means she's a lot smarter than the second-smartest person I know.
So "I'll make you the world's biggest star by half" would mean that by the time the Mick is done,
the second-biggest star in the world will be far far less famous/appreciated than this girl...

Yes, with sssoul, I believe 'by half' can and is used with superlatives.

The phrase could be interpreted as existing on a continuum, including 'not a star', 'a bit of a star', 'a big star' 'the world's biggest star', 'the world's biggest star by half', etc.

So the girl in the song, as you suggest, would be above and beyond the world's biggest star; she would be more famous than would be necessary to make her 'the world's biggest star'.

I think you guys are missing the implied meaning of by half here. It is usually used in a sarcastic way to mean the person referred to is the only one who thinks they are actually what is referred to. In this case this girl would be the only one perhaps who thinks she is the biggest star....no?

I don't know the origins of the song, but it's a favorite of mine and of course the title track of a great Stones album. Provoked some controversy, but nothing new for the Stones right?

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Naturalust

I think you guys are missing the implied meaning of by half here. It is usually used in a sarcastic way to mean the person referred to is the only one who thinks they are actually what is referred to. In this case this girl would be the only one perhaps who thinks she is the biggest star....no?

There are certainly differing views on the etymology of the phrase, one of which is that 'by half' means divided into two. Using this interpretation, if a person was described as being 'too clever by half', to use a well-known example, they would be half as clever as they thought they were.

I'm not sure whether that fits the context of the song, unless it's perhaps offered as a caveat to warn the 'girl' in question of what may be to come, or of the insincerity of the narrator.

.....

Olly.

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Olly

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Naturalust

I think you guys are missing the implied meaning of by half here. It is usually used in a sarcastic way to mean the person referred to is the only one who thinks they are actually what is referred to. In this case this girl would be the only one perhaps who thinks she is the biggest star....no?

There are certainly differing views on the etymology of the phrase, one of which is that 'by half' means divided into two. Using this interpretation, if a person was described as being 'too clever by half', to use a well-known example, they would be half as clever as they thought they were.

I'm not sure whether that fits the context of the song, unless it's perhaps offered as a caveat to warn the 'girl' in question of what may be to come, or of the insincerity of the narrator.

Considering the source I think it's a pretty fair assumption that Jagger was using the term to mean half as big a star as they thought they were.

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Olly

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Naturalust

I think you guys are missing the implied meaning of by half here. It is usually used in a sarcastic way to mean the person referred to is the only one who thinks they are actually what is referred to. In this case this girl would be the only one perhaps who thinks she is the biggest star....no?

There are certainly differing views on the etymology of the phrase, one of which is that 'by half' means divided into two. Using this interpretation, if a person was described as being 'too clever by half', to use a well-known example, they would be half as clever as they thought they were.

I'm not sure whether that fits the context of the song, unless it's perhaps offered as a caveat to warn the 'girl' in question of what may be to come, or of the insincerity of the narrator.

none of these match my understanding of the phrase. "too smart by half" means that you're being too smart for your own good - e.g.. over thinking something.

[www.examiner.com]

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Naturalust

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Olly

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Naturalust

I think you guys are missing the implied meaning of by half here. It is usually used in a sarcastic way to mean the person referred to is the only one who thinks they are actually what is referred to. In this case this girl would be the only one perhaps who thinks she is the biggest star....no?

There are certainly differing views on the etymology of the phrase, one of which is that 'by half' means divided into two. Using this interpretation, if a person was described as being 'too clever by half', to use a well-known example, they would be half as clever as they thought they were.

I'm not sure whether that fits the context of the song, unless it's perhaps offered as a caveat to warn the 'girl' in question of what may be to come, or of the insincerity of the narrator.

Considering the source I think it's a pretty fair assumption that Jagger was using the term to mean half as big a star as they thought they were.

I wouldn't be confident of many assumptions in a song like this...

Of course, there are many possibilities with regards to this phrase, with even dictionary definitions varying. Whilst valid, I don't feel your interpretation is the obvious one to assume. It is also difficult to reference the phrase, as we don't know whether or not 'by half' is a direct reference to, or mimic of, the phrase 'too clever by half'.

One interpretation to consider, certainly (which I think reflects what you wrote) in light of the potential influence and context of 'too clever by half' is that the woman is likely to act too much of a 'star', in a way that irritates others...

However: Is it the making of the 'star', rather than their behaviour, that is being described? The character portrayed in the song has shortcomings and failings of his own, so perhaps it's his assumption that he is capable of making someone 'the world's biggest star' that is...

... too clever by half.

.....

Olly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-03 22:48 by Olly.

Yes Olly this one can be interpreted a couple ways but it just seems Mick is exploiting the "half of" concept/phrase over and over in this tune in a subtractive way. Perhaps it was just another way to get the half word in there in a clever way. But it just makes more sense to me in the context of the tune that he is throwing a little sarcastic cut out there instead of implying how big of a star he could make her above the next biggest star. The whole song has that sarcastic vibe really.

It's funny that we are dissecting this so thoughtfully considering Mick probably spent all of 5 seconds writing the line. lol.

Fabulously sleazy track, always loved it. The lyric was just a joke, as Keith said they knew some extra horny black chicks at the time



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-03 23:02 by Moonshine.

I agree with you regarding the sarcasm, Naturalust, and not only is it present, but it's also more effective than on most Stones tracks.

Given the character narrating the song, I do think the 'by half' may be a knowing reference to the singer's own inadequacy; his unreliability as a narrator.

And your point about the lyrics possibly being written hastily is highly pertinent, given that the comment 'by half' sounds, intentionally or otherwise, like a spontaneous afterthought in the verse. Look at the lyrics written down: 'by half' needn't be there, of necessity, which of course makes it's inclusion all the more intriguing.

.....

Olly.

It's amusing to read the comments of non-Brits grappling with the lyrical-meaning of Jagger's lyrics. Almost makes one proud to be an Englishman

Almost, Al, but not quite.

.....

Olly.