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Go to the 2014 world tour page and read B.V report from the show in Auckland and he says there will be more next year.
Nate
The difference is that McCartney can keep all the money for himself while the stones share among four
Really? When you're at the end of your course as a live band?
And in SA nobody buys records... They DL what they need.
The sole purpose of a 2015 SA is to rake in the same amount of money erp show as they did in Aus/NZ or in Europe.
If that cannot be ensured the tour is out and that's what we're currently seeing.
Not quite true.
This is something that happens everywhere, not only here in SA.
Some people like to leave their families as much as possible, believe it or not. Mick & Keef can leave their families years of royalties, millions & millions of dollars/pounds/euros/whatever after their death. It may surprise you, but Michael Jackson & Elvis still make tons of money for their families...and would have probably wanted it that way. Not everyone only cares about what happens to themselves in the here & now.
Which part? They don't seem to be functioning anymore with recordings. They aren't doing these shows for free.
If it's just about Argentina - admittedly a big fanbase for the Stones - why not play a few nights across the river in Colonia Del Sacramento, Uruguay. They haven't got much of a stadium but do have some nice parks..........or, alright, a bit further field, but still fairly close to Buenos Aires, just a ferry ride away, in Montevideo...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-23 18:54 by EddieByword.
Well put. Stones tours, without record sales to support them now especially, are big business. And at their ages and at this point in their career, they are not building or growing anything - it is reaping time.
Frankly, I would rather they ditch all the money they spend on pyro, the huge staging, and just go out and play concerts not shows. Sadly, they are in show business, not about music, or even music business. They seem to feel the need to live on spectacle over music. It is what it is.
Mick and Keith will be over 90 years old in 20 years.
If they're still around they can use the money for Depends Adult Diapers which are not cheap.
I get that some people do not understand that others care about their children & grandchildren, so really, it is silly that I point this out...again. Elvis is dead, and still makes money (stating this AGAIN). Not sure how to reach people on this point that do not understand an emotion called "love" that many feel for their descendants. Perhaps a dictionary will help some understand this strange word. If that does not work, have you heard of a will or an inheritance? Do you understand why people do these things? Is the concept completely foreign that someone would want to give their children more money? Can anyone help me understand how to reach people that do not understand this concept?
And I'm guessing McCartney doesn't want as much money as the Stones...from the promotor (and consequently from the fans)
Presley and Jackson make more money than they ever did while they were alive due to inflation, etc. However, the main reason why neither person/estate is in debt anymore is they're not alive to spend it faster than they earned it, especially Jackson. When he died, he owed a ton of money. Within a year, if not sooner, ALL his debts were paid, something that would have been impossible to do within a year had he lived.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-24 15:54 by Long John Stoner.
McCartney is in reasonably good health and has been for a while now. While no one in his band is less than 40 and most are in their late 50's, that factor isn't a concern. But I would suggest McCartney's fan base is really the Beatle fan base, which frankly has more of a universal appeal than the Stones, making for more of a demand.
yeah, I don't think that you can hold out 'poor demand' as the reason.
Well except that Ronnie will tour whenever Keith and Mick tell him to, so it's more like trying to get three sixes with four dice. Then considering the dice have a common goal and are communicating and cooperating, I'd say we are down to two sixes. Then throw in the huge $ incentives, the "we are well rehearsed and not getting any younger", we are down to one six. Finally add the "we can't let that rainy, not sold out show in New Zealand be our last one, and the hints from side musicians, Jagger and Ronnie, I'd say we are much better than 50/50.
peace
As long as we are doing idle speculation over what may happen in the future, mine is that the Rolling Stones (and that's four men, I don't discount some of them) do not know as we sit here today whether there will be another Rolling Stones show.
It is also my opinion that they will never announce a final show or a farewell tour, we will only know after the fact that there will be no more. This is for many reasons, one is I think they think the "farewell tour" is cheesy, but also for economic reasons.
As sdstonesguy keeps pointing out, the Rolling Stones as an economic entity that will outlive the individuals. That economic entity is worth more if the possibility of future shows is out there. that is another reason they will never announce it is over.
In other words, after the last show, Ronnie and Bobby Keys, etc. will still be saying "see you next year" because that's how it works.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
Nate
()
Date: November 23, 2014 16:42
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
Nate
If you read B.V report on the show from Auckland then he says there will be more next year.
Nate
Where in the Auckland thread did you see this Nate? I've seen some BV comments in other threads though like the 2012-2014 world tour thread. What a great 2 year run the Stones just gave us!!
Go to the 2014 world tour page and read B.V report from the show in Auckland and he says there will be more next year.
Nate
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 23, 2014 16:55
Argentina is ill, Venezuela is sinkign and Brazil is reocevering from the World Cup... With that it didn't bode well for the SA tour. Or Mick should have revised his financial pretentions to accomodate the situation...
... or the band could have played these shows for free!
(hey Mick I'm just kidding, don't faint!)
... or the band could have played these shows for free!
(hey Mick I'm just kidding, don't faint!)
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
firebird
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:03
Quote
TooToughQuote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Why is McCartney touring South and Middle America in 2014 then?
Brazil (6)
Chile (2)
Uruguay (1)
Peru (1)
Ecuador (1)
Costa Rica (1)
So it´s all about wanting to do it. A tour would be possible without Argentinian shows as you can see. But why not play 5 shows in BA and
make no money? Where´s the problem? Get back the money in the
States!
No one really thinks that economy gets better in a few months time. Anywhere.
The difference is that McCartney can keep all the money for himself while the stones share among four
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
sdstonesguy
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:08
I am not sure the Stones are so shortsighted to only weigh what they can make on gigs in Argentina in 2015. They also nurture a fan base that will buy albums for the next 10-20+ years. Visiting somewhere like Buenos Aires or Rio isn't just about the money that day, it's about investing in a fan base.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:21
Quote
sdstonesguy
Visiting somewhere like Buenos Aires or Rio isn't just about the money that day, it's about investing in a fan base.
Really? When you're at the end of your course as a live band?
And in SA nobody buys records... They DL what they need.
The sole purpose of a 2015 SA is to rake in the same amount of money erp show as they did in Aus/NZ or in Europe.
If that cannot be ensured the tour is out and that's what we're currently seeing.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
leteyer
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:39
Quote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Not quite true.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
Cristiano Radtke
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:47
Quote
dcba
And in SA nobody buys records... They DL what they need.
This is something that happens everywhere, not only here in SA.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:56
Quote
NateQuote
MaindefenderQuote
Nate
If you read B.V report on the show from Auckland then he says there will be more next year.
Nate
Where in the Auckland thread did you see this Nate? I've seen some BV comments in other threads though like the 2012-2014 world tour thread. What a great 2 year run the Stones just gave us!!
Go to the 2014 world tour page and read B.V report from the show in Auckland and he says there will be more next year.
Got it, thank you Nate. BV's been wearing his emotions on his sleeve leading up to the 22nd. I love the Stones more because of him. And he also took a header, get well soon BV.
Nate
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
sdstonesguy
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:56
Quote
dcbaQuote
sdstonesguy
Visiting somewhere like Buenos Aires or Rio isn't just about the money that day, it's about investing in a fan base.
Really? When you're at the end of your course as a live band?
And in SA nobody buys records... They DL what they need.
The sole purpose of a 2015 SA is to rake in the same amount of money erp show as they did in Aus/NZ or in Europe.
If that cannot be ensured the tour is out and that's what we're currently seeing.
Some people like to leave their families as much as possible, believe it or not. Mick & Keef can leave their families years of royalties, millions & millions of dollars/pounds/euros/whatever after their death. It may surprise you, but Michael Jackson & Elvis still make tons of money for their families...and would have probably wanted it that way. Not everyone only cares about what happens to themselves in the here & now.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
thecitadel
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:57
If you can't get money out of Argentine due to currency controls (I know, my last company had a problem with only $100k). then going there would mean it costing the Stones to do those gigs - crazy - thats not even a free gig. A tiny gig might make sense = a stadium would put them $M out of pocket - real loss, not lost profit.
So if its true about currency controls, as suggested in this thread, then the whole economics of a SA tour is screwed.
Say thanks to Mrs Kirchner for policies that keep the Stones away from BA.
So if its true about currency controls, as suggested in this thread, then the whole economics of a SA tour is screwed.
Say thanks to Mrs Kirchner for policies that keep the Stones away from BA.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
crholmstrom
()
Date: November 23, 2014 17:58
Quote
leteyerQuote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Not quite true.
Which part? They don't seem to be functioning anymore with recordings. They aren't doing these shows for free.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: November 23, 2014 18:53
Quote
thecitadel
If you can't get money out of Argentine due to currency controls (I know, my last company had a problem with only $100k). then going there would mean it costing the Stones to do those gigs - crazy - thats not even a free gig. A tiny gig might make sense = a stadium would put them $M out of pocket - real loss, not lost profit.
So if its true about currency controls, as suggested in this thread, then the whole economics of a SA tour is screwed.
Say thanks to Mrs Kirchner for policies that keep the Stones away from BA.
If it's just about Argentina - admittedly a big fanbase for the Stones - why not play a few nights across the river in Colonia Del Sacramento, Uruguay. They haven't got much of a stadium but do have some nice parks..........or, alright, a bit further field, but still fairly close to Buenos Aires, just a ferry ride away, in Montevideo...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-23 18:54 by EddieByword.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: November 23, 2014 19:15
If you wanna look at the bigger picture from the mid-90's on, the Stones followed the evolution of the economic globalization.
SA sprang with better standards of living, the band was there. Greece boomed or "boomed" (thx to France and Germany's money) the band played there. Asia boomed the band harvested these lands.
If when the Stones announce a tour, Uncle Mick decides he won't play in your country anymore (Greece Argentina) well you'd better wonder if you're going to go belly up soon...
That's the evolution/convulsion of the gllobalization.
SA sprang with better standards of living, the band was there. Greece boomed or "boomed" (thx to France and Germany's money) the band played there. Asia boomed the band harvested these lands.
If when the Stones announce a tour, Uncle Mick decides he won't play in your country anymore (Greece Argentina) well you'd better wonder if you're going to go belly up soon...
That's the evolution/convulsion of the gllobalization.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
buffalo7478
()
Date: November 23, 2014 19:25
Quote
dcba
If you wanna look at the bigger picture from the mid-90's on, the Stones followed the evolution of the economic globalization.
SA sprang with better standards of living, the band was there. Greece boomed or "boomed" (thx to France and Germany's money) the band played there. Asia boomed the band harvested these lands.
If when the Stones announce a tour, Uncle Mick decides he won't play in your country anymore (Greece Argentina) well you'd better wonder if you're going to go belly up soon...
That's the evolution/convulsion of the gllobalization.
Well put. Stones tours, without record sales to support them now especially, are big business. And at their ages and at this point in their career, they are not building or growing anything - it is reaping time.
Frankly, I would rather they ditch all the money they spend on pyro, the huge staging, and just go out and play concerts not shows. Sadly, they are in show business, not about music, or even music business. They seem to feel the need to live on spectacle over music. It is what it is.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
beachbreak
()
Date: November 23, 2014 21:57
Quote
They also nurture a fan base that will buy albums for the next 10-20+ years.
Mick and Keith will be over 90 years old in 20 years.
If they're still around they can use the money for Depends Adult Diapers which are not cheap.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
dmay
()
Date: November 23, 2014 23:01
"If they're still around they can use the money for Depends Adult Diapers which are not cheap."
They can always come here to the USA and buy these wholsesale and in bulk at Costco or Sam's Club.
They can always come here to the USA and buy these wholsesale and in bulk at Costco or Sam's Club.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
sdstonesguy
()
Date: November 23, 2014 23:05
Quote
beachbreakQuote
They also nurture a fan base that will buy albums for the next 10-20+ years.
Mick and Keith will be over 90 years old in 20 years.
If they're still around they can use the money for Depends Adult Diapers which are not cheap.
I get that some people do not understand that others care about their children & grandchildren, so really, it is silly that I point this out...again. Elvis is dead, and still makes money (stating this AGAIN). Not sure how to reach people on this point that do not understand an emotion called "love" that many feel for their descendants. Perhaps a dictionary will help some understand this strange word. If that does not work, have you heard of a will or an inheritance? Do you understand why people do these things? Is the concept completely foreign that someone would want to give their children more money? Can anyone help me understand how to reach people that do not understand this concept?
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
herecomesrichard
()
Date: November 24, 2014 00:41
Had persuaded girlfriend we should holiday in South America instead of India as planned in March and take in a Stones show in Lima. But can't hold off booking flights much longer. Looks like it's going to be India after all.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
ROPS
()
Date: November 24, 2014 02:53
No money to pay what the Stones demand,and since the economy is in the shit hole in most of the South American countries,ticket prices would have to be so high that only very few could afford them,don't see any shows happening in that area,maybe Brazil,but that's it...
"You know who l am, say it"
"You know who l am, say it"
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: November 24, 2014 02:58
<<UK is next?>>
I would take that to mean just returning home for a break.
I would take that to mean just returning home for a break.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
thecitadel
()
Date: November 24, 2014 10:01
Lots of "see you soon" messages from Ronnie - in the past I would ignore that but recently its been a good indicator of more gigs soon...
wishful thinking maybe - hope not
wishful thinking maybe - hope not
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
exhpart
()
Date: November 24, 2014 15:45
Quote
firebirdQuote
TooToughQuote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Why is McCartney touring South and Middle America in 2014 then?
Brazil (6)
Chile (2)
Uruguay (1)
Peru (1)
Ecuador (1)
Costa Rica (1)
So it´s all about wanting to do it. A tour would be possible without Argentinian shows as you can see. But why not play 5 shows in BA and
make no money? Where´s the problem? Get back the money in the
States!
No one really thinks that economy gets better in a few months time. Anywhere.
The difference is that McCartney can keep all the money for himself while the stones share among four
And I'm guessing McCartney doesn't want as much money as the Stones...from the promotor (and consequently from the fans)
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
Long John Stoner
()
Date: November 24, 2014 15:54
Quote
sdstonesguyQuote
dcbaQuote
sdstonesguy
Visiting somewhere like Buenos Aires or Rio isn't just about the money that day, it's about investing in a fan base.
Really? When you're at the end of your course as a live band?
And in SA nobody buys records... They DL what they need.
The sole purpose of a 2015 SA is to rake in the same amount of money erp show as they did in Aus/NZ or in Europe.
If that cannot be ensured the tour is out and that's what we're currently seeing.
Some people like to leave their families as much as possible, believe it or not. Mick & Keef can leave their families years of royalties, millions & millions of dollars/pounds/euros/whatever after their death. It may surprise you, but Michael Jackson & Elvis still make tons of money for their families...and would have probably wanted it that way. Not everyone only cares about what happens to themselves in the here & now.
Presley and Jackson make more money than they ever did while they were alive due to inflation, etc. However, the main reason why neither person/estate is in debt anymore is they're not alive to spend it faster than they earned it, especially Jackson. When he died, he owed a ton of money. Within a year, if not sooner, ALL his debts were paid, something that would have been impossible to do within a year had he lived.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-11-24 15:54 by Long John Stoner.
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
Long John Stoner
()
Date: November 24, 2014 15:58
Quote
exhpartQuote
firebirdQuote
TooToughQuote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Why is McCartney touring South and Middle America in 2014 then?
Brazil (6)
Chile (2)
Uruguay (1)
Peru (1)
Ecuador (1)
Costa Rica (1)
So it´s all about wanting to do it. A tour would be possible without Argentinian shows as you can see. But why not play 5 shows in BA and
make no money? Where´s the problem? Get back the money in the
States!
No one really thinks that economy gets better in a few months time. Anywhere.
The difference is that McCartney can keep all the money for himself while the stones share among four
And I'm guessing McCartney doesn't want as much money as the Stones...from the promotor (and consequently from the fans)
McCartney is in reasonably good health and has been for a while now. While no one in his band is less than 40 and most are in their late 50's, that factor isn't a concern. But I would suggest McCartney's fan base is really the Beatle fan base, which frankly has more of a universal appeal than the Stones, making for more of a demand.
Re: The Rolling Stones World Tour 2012-2014
Posted by:
bv
()
Date: November 24, 2014 16:06
Macca is ONE person. The Rolling Stones are FOUR.
Take four dice. Roll one of them and see how easy it is to get six. It happens every 6th time statistically. Then try to get all four at six at the same time. This is the difference in MACCA touring and STONES i.e. four lads touring.
I will make a separate tread about future shows soon, just need to sort out some other stuff first.
Bjornulf
Take four dice. Roll one of them and see how easy it is to get six. It happens every 6th time statistically. Then try to get all four at six at the same time. This is the difference in MACCA touring and STONES i.e. four lads touring.
I will make a separate tread about future shows soon, just need to sort out some other stuff first.
Bjornulf
Re: What happened to South America 2015?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: November 24, 2014 16:26
Quote
Long John StonerQuote
exhpartQuote
firebirdQuote
TooToughQuote
crholmstrom
It's all about the benjamins. Economy in SA not so good.
Why is McCartney touring South and Middle America in 2014 then?
Brazil (6)
Chile (2)
Uruguay (1)
Peru (1)
Ecuador (1)
Costa Rica (1)
So it´s all about wanting to do it. A tour would be possible without Argentinian shows as you can see. But why not play 5 shows in BA and
make no money? Where´s the problem? Get back the money in the
States!
No one really thinks that economy gets better in a few months time. Anywhere.
The difference is that McCartney can keep all the money for himself while the stones share among four
And I'm guessing McCartney doesn't want as much money as the Stones...from the promotor (and consequently from the fans)
McCartney is in reasonably good health and has been for a while now. While no one in his band is less than 40 and most are in their late 50's, that factor isn't a concern. But I would suggest McCartney's fan base is really the Beatle fan base, which frankly has more of a universal appeal than the Stones, making for more of a demand.
yeah, I don't think that you can hold out 'poor demand' as the reason.
Re: The Rolling Stones World Tour 2012-2014
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: November 24, 2014 21:22
Buenos Aires is THE place for Stones in South America.
Happy to see this remark:
had a great time in Auckland and as I head home to Norway I will be back on my bike soon. And next year? Yes, there will be more...
Happy to see this remark:
had a great time in Auckland and as I head home to Norway I will be back on my bike soon. And next year? Yes, there will be more...
Re: The Rolling Stones World Tour 2012-2014
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: November 24, 2014 21:37
Quote
bv
Macca is ONE person. The Rolling Stones are FOUR.
Take four dice. Roll one of them and see how easy it is to get six. It happens every 6th time statistically. Then try to get all four at six at the same time. This is the difference in MACCA touring and STONES i.e. four lads touring.
I will make a separate tread about future shows soon, just need to sort out some other stuff first.
Well except that Ronnie will tour whenever Keith and Mick tell him to, so it's more like trying to get three sixes with four dice. Then considering the dice have a common goal and are communicating and cooperating, I'd say we are down to two sixes. Then throw in the huge $ incentives, the "we are well rehearsed and not getting any younger", we are down to one six. Finally add the "we can't let that rainy, not sold out show in New Zealand be our last one, and the hints from side musicians, Jagger and Ronnie, I'd say we are much better than 50/50.
peace
Re: The Rolling Stones World Tour 2012-2014
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: November 24, 2014 22:57
Quote
NaturalustQuote
bv
Macca is ONE person. The Rolling Stones are FOUR.
Take four dice. Roll one of them and see how easy it is to get six. It happens every 6th time statistically. Then try to get all four at six at the same time. This is the difference in MACCA touring and STONES i.e. four lads touring.
I will make a separate tread about future shows soon, just need to sort out some other stuff first.
Well except that Ronnie will tour whenever Keith and Mick tell him to, so it's more like trying to get three sixes with four dice. Then considering the dice have a common goal and are communicating and cooperating, I'd say we are down to two sixes. Then throw in the huge $ incentives, the "we are well rehearsed and not getting any younger", we are down to one six. Finally add the "we can't let that rainy, not sold out show in New Zealand be our last one, and the hints from side musicians, Jagger and Ronnie, I'd say we are much better than 50/50.
peace
As long as we are doing idle speculation over what may happen in the future, mine is that the Rolling Stones (and that's four men, I don't discount some of them) do not know as we sit here today whether there will be another Rolling Stones show.
It is also my opinion that they will never announce a final show or a farewell tour, we will only know after the fact that there will be no more. This is for many reasons, one is I think they think the "farewell tour" is cheesy, but also for economic reasons.
As sdstonesguy keeps pointing out, the Rolling Stones as an economic entity that will outlive the individuals. That economic entity is worth more if the possibility of future shows is out there. that is another reason they will never announce it is over.
In other words, after the last show, Ronnie and Bobby Keys, etc. will still be saying "see you next year" because that's how it works.
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