I'm wondering whether we can have a reasonable discussion on something I've wondered about for some time? The ability for the stones to put out what most might consider offensive lyrics, that really don't seem to have a negative impact on them at all. Mick's lyrics seem Teflon.

lyrics like:

"Black Girls just wanna get .... all night I don't have that much jam",

or

"Ali McGraw got mad with you, for givin' head to Steve McQueen",

or

"Aw, you drowned that Jew in Rampton as he washed his sleeveless shirt, You know, that Spanish-speaking gentlemen, the one we all called "Kurt."

or

Brown Sugar, how come you taste so good
Brown Sugar, just like a young girl should

Brown Sugar, how come you dance so good
Brown Sugar, just like a black girl should

that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing others.

How does Mick get away with it? If it's another mainstream artist, aren't they getting slammed?

Mick has gotten away with lyrics no one else could.

Not exactly lyrics, but don't forget the 12-12-12 Benefit for the U.S. dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, a world-wide broadcast and released concert. In between their two songs they performed, Mick had the audacity to poke some fun at the ordeal, saying,

Quote
Mick Jagger, 12/12/12
“This has got to be the largest collection of old English musicians ever assembled in Madison Square Garden. But I've got to say, if it rains in London, you've got to come and help us, OK?”

The first half isn't anything too offensive, but the bold part is the part that was probably meant to lighten the mood, but came off as offensive. That comment, let alone the two-song set list, seemed to almost be a slap in the face. I don't care if they had a PPV the following night, that comment was downright rude.

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DoomandGloom
Mick has gotten away with lyrics no one else could.

Wonder if he has regrets about the Ya Ya's Stray Cat Blues? "I can see that your just thirteen years old. I don't want your ID. You look so lonesome and you, so far from home".

All the misogynist stuff in the Aftermath era: Mother's Little Helper, Stupid Girl, Under My Thumb.

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DoomandGloom
Mick has gotten away with lyrics no one else could.

Completely agree...but why do you think that would be the case?

That's the part I find both interesting and vexing.

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun
Not exactly lyrics, but don't forget the 12-12-12 Benefit for the U.S. dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, a world-wide broadcast and released concert. In between their two songs they performed, Mick had the audacity to poke some fun at the ordeal, saying,

Quote
Mick Jagger, 12/12/12
“This has got to be the largest collection of old English musicians ever assembled in Madison Square Garden. But I've got to say, if it rains in London, you've got to come and help us, OK?”

The first half isn't anything too offensive, but the bold part is the part that was probably meant to lighten the mood, but came off as offensive. That comment, let alone the two-song set list, seemed to almost be a slap in the face. I don't care if they had a PPV the following night, that comment was downright rude.

I honestly think that was a clash of cultures coming to play. I think the British are more self deprecating and he meant it as a levity thing, in an otherwise horrible situation. That joke woulda killed in London!

My personal fave: "You make a dead man come". Hahahaha

I bet you keep your p&*^%y clean

I'll take a shot here-
SCBlues: I definitely think that's the worst of the bunch. I have a 13 y.o. niece and would definitely be driven to violence if anyone came near her like that, rock star or not. A real shame, because I love that tune and I think the lyrics have held that out of the rotation.

I don't see anything wrong with the Ali McGraw line. I'm sure that's just a true story and fits with the theme of the rest of the tune what with "bet it keeps your pussy clean" and "tool beneath your hood" and so on. I'm sure he knew/knows plenty of chicks like this.

I don't see any problem with the line from Memo From Turner. Referring to a Jewish person as a Jew isn't offensive as far as I understand. He doesn't defame anyone, just telling a story.

The black girls line is just having fun and, again, probably reflects his real life experience.

Brown Sugar, same thing. Reflecting his experience (Marsha Hunt) and seems celebratory, not any kind of put down.

Lastly, the "misogyny" of the Aftermath/BtButtons/Flowers era- I'm not seeing a problem here either. As I understand it, misogyny is a general negative attitude towards women. I don't hear that with these tunes at all. I hear a young guy feeling his way through life (an exceptionally unique life) and running into some really nasty, shallow, controlling chicks and being properly pissed off about it. Most people have to deal with this to some degree (presumably a much lesser one) but don't have the advantage of getting it out of their system with the therapy of songwriting.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-13 05:37 by shawnriffhard1.

I honestly don't care!!! PC will be the death of us all!

I still find it intriguing that China censored certain songs, but they were ok with Midnight Rambler.

As a fan, I find many of Jagger's lyrics offensive. If the Stones were not a guitar-based band, I wouldn't be a fan. I listen to the Stones for all of the work that 'the band' put into the songs. Jagger is a PHENOMENAL vocalist, but the morals within the songs themselves have never been something I can back.

A few favorite tracks....

- When The Whip Comes Down
- Midnight Rambler
- Star Star
- Brown Sugar
- Respectable

These tracks are not poetry. Most of these are angry/vicious songs lyrically. If Keith and Ronnie//Taylor and Charlie were not members, I do not know that I would be as interested in the band.

Mick got away with them cos you can't understand them half the time. The other half, well...it was what you expected from the outrageous Stones.

A lot of this is down to changing times. Notions of what constitutes "offensive" change. Many of the lyrics quoted are very similar to thoughts expressed in old blues songs, which weren't exactly PC with regard to women, for instance. And the Stones' contemporaries wrote similar lines--check out Zeppelin's lyrics.

Btw, I often see outrage over Stray Cat Blues, but rarely over Good Morning Little Schoolgirl, which everybody and his brother (probably including the Woods) did back in the day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-13 06:19 by Aquamarine.

Artistic/Poetic license. It's the same reason when we go see a Scorsese film we don't get offended by the extreme profanity, racial slurs and violence. It's not real life. Now if Mick were to be caught saying those things in a non performance context, would be entirely different story.

Ironically Mick will frequently censor himself. Even the first ever performance of Brown Sugar at Altamont and almost continuously since, he has omitted the "Hear him whip the women" lyric. Also, in SFD, the "Who Killed the Kennedys" lyric is no longer used.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-13 06:16 by jazzbass.

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jazzbass
Artistic/Poetic license. It's the same reason when we go see a Scorsese film we don't get offended by the extreme profanity, racial slurs and violence. It's not real life. Now if Mick were to be caught saying those things in a non performance context, would be entirely different story.

Good point--most of these songs are from the point of view of personas, rather than Mick personally.

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RockinJive
I bet you keep your p&*^%y clean

Gonna f$%^ yer sweet ass

Quote
muffie

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DoomandGloom
Mick has gotten away with lyrics no one else could.

Wonder if he has regrets about the Ya Ya's Stray Cat Blues? "I can see that your just thirteen years old. I don't want your ID. You look so lonesome and you, so far from home".

******OPERATION YEWTREE KLAXON!*******

Well, not completely get away with it....

When the album Some Girls was released there was a little fuss about the lyrics of the title track. A lot of women were offended and protest against it, without any results ofcourse. It's mentioned in at least one or two books about the Stones.

Maybe even that was the reason they didn't play it live in '78, almost all the album was played, but never this song.

PS: Also Steve McQueen was asked when Star Star was released if he was offended by those lyrics about him, but ofcourse the King of Cool wasn't.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-13 10:53 by GJV.

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BeforeTheyMakeMeRun
Not exactly lyrics, but don't forget the 12-12-12 Benefit for the U.S. dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, a world-wide broadcast and released concert. In between their two songs they performed, Mick had the audacity to poke some fun at the ordeal, saying,

Quote
Mick Jagger, 12/12/12
“This has got to be the largest collection of old English musicians ever assembled in Madison Square Garden. But I've got to say, if it rains in London, you've got to come and help us, OK?”

The first half isn't anything too offensive, but the bold part is the part that was probably meant to lighten the mood, but came off as offensive. That comment, let alone the two-song set list, seemed to almost be a slap in the face. I don't care if they had a PPV the following night, that comment was downright rude.

(Can you explain) why?

And also: what does it (possibly) have to do with 'let alone the two-song set list' to judge it as "almost be a slap in the face"?
In my view: there was no law that said they had to be there but they were and they supported with two songs because that probably was a result of what was possible and what they wanted - imo it was great for everyone they were there too so...why question it like that
And the joke imo has to do with this British thing with rain; they are whining about rain for so many centuries that it's become pretty laughable for them...a way of coping with their lack of sunshine.

Quote
FanOfGRARBITW

Quote
RockinJive
I bet you keep your p&*^%y clean

Gonna f$%^ yer sweet ass

Get a room you two.

Quote
treaclefingers

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DoomandGloom
Mick has gotten away with lyrics no one else could.

Completely agree...but why do you think that would be the case?

That's the part I find both interesting and vexing.

Not just us fans / dedicated fans / specialists but everyone can see how they are not so very serious about lots of things...their attitude towards life is why people know you can't take all those lyrics too serious...and there's their big city humor and irony that's also typical for the generation influenced by the war: what can happen to us...let's have fun and laugh about lot's of things.
And also the artists freedom people know they have...which is something else as saying things in an interview packed with the label 'my opinion'.
Songwriting is for a huge part picking things up along the way...from the streets or the supermarket or a party...
And we also know indeed 'getting it out of their system with the therapy of songwriting.' is just as valid as the therapy of talking to your hairdresser or something.
Most important: there will always be people where he doesn't get away with it...because those people have no imagination at all

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crholmstrom
My personal fave: "You make a dead man come". Hahahaha

I like that one too. Although the tune that comes from is older than Mick.



"I got nipples on my titties, big as the end of my
thumb,

I got somethin’ between my legs’ll make a dead man
come"

Lucille Bogan, Shave 'em dry, 1935.

Now that's what I'm talking about!

Quote
BeforeTheyMakeMeRun
Not exactly lyrics, but don't forget the 12-12-12 Benefit for the U.S. dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, a world-wide broadcast and released concert. In between their two songs they performed, Mick had the audacity to poke some fun at the ordeal, saying,

Quote
Mick Jagger, 12/12/12
“This has got to be the largest collection of old English musicians ever assembled in Madison Square Garden. But I've got to say, if it rains in London, you've got to come and help us, OK?”

The first half isn't anything too offensive, but the bold part is the part that was probably meant to lighten the mood, but came off as offensive. That comment, let alone the two-song set list, seemed to almost be a slap in the face. I don't care if they had a PPV the following night, that comment was downright rude.

To each it's own - I was laughing my a** off when I first heard it. I absolutely love that sense of dry, British humor

I was thinking of starting a similar thread about a month ago on whether or not there were any kid friendly popular Stones songs. I went to a performance at the school where I teach of 11 year olds singing a rock and roll revue. Wondering if they would find a Stones song to sing and which one, the kids finally launched into Start Me Up, changing some of they lyrics so it was more G rated.

After that, I wondered if their lyrics might be one of the reasons you don't hear the Stones on the radio as much as you do some other older groups like the Beatles. Adults listen to the Stones, everyone listens to the Beatles.

it's as part of the deal with the Stones ...
if its out there it'll likely show up in a song ..

The whole spectrum of humanity is there for writing about ..

ever since Let's Spend The Night Together they've gotten themselves in a bit of trouble now and again ... even Satisfaction .. iconic lyrics about the frustration a man can experience with a woman at 'certain times'..

I started listening to them when I was 13 and although English is not my first language, I was atp first surprised on how raunchy some of the lyrics were by trying to translate them with a dictionary. This was beforethe internet and it was difficult to get hold of lyrics on print. Anyway I was intrigued, plus my parents do not speak English, but they thought the Stones were a bunch of dirty old man. Having grown up, I have learnt that life can be multi-faceted and that there is a dark side to everyone's personality. Relationships are complex, even long-term successful ones. In way the Stones lyrics reflect the complex reality of what is out there.

Quote
BeforeTheyMakeMeRun
Not exactly lyrics, but don't forget the 12-12-12 Benefit for the U.S. dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy, a world-wide broadcast and released concert. In between their two songs they performed, Mick had the audacity to poke some fun at the ordeal, saying,

Quote
Mick Jagger, 12/12/12
“This has got to be the largest collection of old English musicians ever assembled in Madison Square Garden. But I've got to say, if it rains in London, you've got to come and help us, OK?”

The first half isn't anything too offensive, but the bold part is the part that was probably meant to lighten the mood, but came off as offensive. That comment, let alone the two-song set list, seemed to almost be a slap in the face. I don't care if they had a PPV the following night, that comment was downright rude.

I find it funny. Maybe you should get yourself accostumed to the witty English humour?
I mean, there's a life beyond SNL and its ungainliness...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-06-13 14:27 by dcba.

Get over it

Not to forget C*cksucker Blues...

Where can I get my c*ck sucked?
Where can I get my @ss f§cked?

and Family

Here comes the girl, she's got her head screwed on
But it ain't screwed on right
Her ambition is to be a prostitute
But the breaks just weren't right
What exactly's gonna happen, tell me
When her father finds out
That his virgin daughter has bordello dreams
And that he's the one she wants to try out
Yeah