Tell Me :
Talk
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:03 by BluzDude.
Yeah right, we have a perfect foreign policy and a completely honest government.
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Yep,responding to Waters and Mason, very relevant to the Stones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:25 by DoomandGloom.
You need to read more….and not mainstream media.
Agreed that the issue is clearly about the Stones and also agreed that people should be able to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
However, the board has a clearly stated no politics or political discussions policy. MKjan's post was and is political. Comments similar to that are what will most likely get the thread shut down. Not "rank cowardice".
Possibly future posters will be able to avoid the politics and the thread will stay open. Having watched and participated in this type of thread at IORR in the past, my prediction stands that the discussion will degenerate and bv will close it.
Peace,
Mr DJA
I know that since this is a VERY touchy subject, the conversation will likely devolve into ugliness, which will force bv to close the thread regardless.
I just think this CAN be a worthwhile discussion provided people remain civil.
Don't want to see this thread closed. My comment showed a perspective that negates
Waters and Masons comments, they are hypocrites….and should not have dragged the Stones into politics. As I said, Music first.
amen and my thoughts pretty much exactly, when I read that. cheers, D&G
Nicely stated. Its amazing how that turnaround happens. Sting, who once did all sorts of Amnesty International work and wrote songs like "They Dance Alone" ultimately played for the dictator of Uzebekistan - a monster whose preferred deterrent to dissent is boiling people alive - at a price of $2 million for the private show.
I agree with your 3rd line 100%
I think your 2nd line states much of what I was trying to verbalize in my previous posts. Possibly better than I was doing myself!
Only because I'd rather have a discussion about this with my friends here at IORR can I get behind your first line. Just not sure that I'd go as far as being "hope"-ful.
Note: just to be clear, I've got no issue with you starting the thread. I'm actually glad you did as I wouldn't have known about it if you didn't. I'll raise a glass to you and try to be optimistic that the conversation doesn't degenerate!
Peace,
Mr DJA
Obviously, this was thoroughly considered by Jagger & Co. and they knew what Waters, et al would say. The Stones, like the vast majority of performers, do not agree with Waters, as can be seen by comparing his list of those who support his boycott with a list of performers who ignore it and play there. it is a non-issue.
...and those who choose not to play there, for some it's the politics, but for most, it's the death threats.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Political statement from Roger Waters and Nick Mason
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: May 1, 2014 20:49
Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
[www.salon.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-02 14:46 by bv.
[www.salon.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-02 14:46 by bv.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: May 1, 2014 20:55
The Rolling Stones don't listen to others they just do what they want to do...........and not interested in politics versus music
__________________________
__________________________
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
shawnriffhard1
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:10
Actually, didn't they listen to the music community in the 60's and not play South Africa? I'm not an authority on the Israeli situation by any means, so I'm not sure about the validity of Waters viewpoint, but to dismiss it out of hand because "They don't care what anyone says", (a sort of variation on "We piss anywhere man!), seems incorrect to me.
Keith Richards met the legendary American musician Gram Parsons at a London club in 1968 when Parsons was touring with the Byrds. Parsons was then 21, Richards 24. From Richards’s 2010 book, Life-
"They [the Byrds] were touring, on their way to South Africa….. I think we went back to [art dealer] Robert Fraser’s to hang out, do some stuff…
At Fraser’s that night we started to talk about South Africa, and Gram asked me, “What’s this drift I’m getting since I got to England? When I say I’m going to South Africa, I get this cold stare.” He was not aware of apartheid or anything. He’d never been out of the United States. So when I explained it to him, about apartheid and sanctions and nobody goes there, they’re not being kind to the brothers, he said, “Oh, just like Mississippi?” And immediately, “Well, @#$%& that.” He quit that night. He was supposed to leave the next day for South Africa. So I said, You can stay here, and we lived with Gram for months and months, certainly the rest of that summer of 1968, mostly at Redlands."
Note to all ye of little faith. This was 18 years before the U.S. Senate voted for sanctions against South Africa, overriding President Ronald Reagan’s veto, and 22 years before apartheid collapsed.
Keith Richards met the legendary American musician Gram Parsons at a London club in 1968 when Parsons was touring with the Byrds. Parsons was then 21, Richards 24. From Richards’s 2010 book, Life-
"They [the Byrds] were touring, on their way to South Africa….. I think we went back to [art dealer] Robert Fraser’s to hang out, do some stuff…
At Fraser’s that night we started to talk about South Africa, and Gram asked me, “What’s this drift I’m getting since I got to England? When I say I’m going to South Africa, I get this cold stare.” He was not aware of apartheid or anything. He’d never been out of the United States. So when I explained it to him, about apartheid and sanctions and nobody goes there, they’re not being kind to the brothers, he said, “Oh, just like Mississippi?” And immediately, “Well, @#$%& that.” He quit that night. He was supposed to leave the next day for South Africa. So I said, You can stay here, and we lived with Gram for months and months, certainly the rest of that summer of 1968, mostly at Redlands."
Note to all ye of little faith. This was 18 years before the U.S. Senate voted for sanctions against South Africa, overriding President Ronald Reagan’s veto, and 22 years before apartheid collapsed.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:18
These old fools can't even gather themselves to appear as a band but they're out there telling others what to do. Great as Floyd was few musicians are as petty to each other and self righteous to their peers. Now The Stones need to take sides in The Palestinian conflict? Waters is bastard for putting our guys in the middle of explosive and unpredictably dangerous politics.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:34
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
shattered1978
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:40
Quote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
BluzDude
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:41
Quote
shattered1978Quote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:03 by BluzDude.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: May 1, 2014 21:48
Quote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:00
Quote
DoomandGloomQuote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Yeah right, we have a perfect foreign policy and a completely honest government.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
flacnvinyl
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:07
The Stones should play anywhere they want to play.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:08
"We sell 'em missiles, We sell 'em tanks
We give 'em credit, You can call the bank
It's just a business, You can pay us in crude
You love these toys, just go play out your feuds
Got no pride, don't know whose boots to lick
We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick"
We give 'em credit, You can call the bank
It's just a business, You can pay us in crude
You love these toys, just go play out your feuds
Got no pride, don't know whose boots to lick
We act so greedy, makes me sick sick sick"
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:11
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
from me too.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
from me too.Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:14
There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:21
Quote
keefriff99There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Yep,responding to Waters and Mason, very relevant to the Stones.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:24
Didn't say that. It's a pity that foreigners like Mick and Keith can appreciate what you can't. Face it, your's is a cheap shot, name a legitimate reason for The Stones not to tour the US??? BV Please delete this thread or I'll send in the troops...Quote
MKjanQuote
DoomandGloomQuote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Yeah right, we have a perfect foreign policy and a completely honest government.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:25 by DoomandGloom.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:28
Quote
DoomandGloomDidn't say that. It's a pity that foreigners like Mick and Keith can appreciate what you can't. Face it, your's is a cheap shot, name a legitimate reason for The Stones not to tour the US??? BV Please delete this thread or I'll send in the troops...Quote
MKjanQuote
DoomandGloomQuote
MKjan
There are lots of reasons for the Stones to boycott the US too.
I'm glad they didn't. Music first!
Yeah right, we have a perfect foreign policy and a completely honest government.
You need to read more….and not mainstream media.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:29
Quote
keefriff99There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Agreed that the issue is clearly about the Stones and also agreed that people should be able to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
However, the board has a clearly stated no politics or political discussions policy. MKjan's post was and is political. Comments similar to that are what will most likely get the thread shut down. Not "rank cowardice".
Possibly future posters will be able to avoid the politics and the thread will stay open. Having watched and participated in this type of thread at IORR in the past, my prediction stands that the discussion will degenerate and bv will close it.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:31
I know that it's bv's site and policy, and I respect that...however, in this case, since it's so clearly about the Stones, I would hope he'd allow an exception.Quote
mr_djaQuote
keefriff99There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Agreed that the issue is clearly about the Stones and also agreed that people should be able to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
However, the board has a clearly stated no politics or political discussions policy. MKjan's post was and is political. Comments similar to that are what will most likely get the thread shut down. Not "rank cowardice".
Possibly future posters will be able to avoid the politics and the thread will stay open. Having watched and participated in this type of thread at IORR in the past, my prediction stands that the discussion will degenerate and bv will close it.
Peace,
Mr DJA
I know that since this is a VERY touchy subject, the conversation will likely devolve into ugliness, which will force bv to close the thread regardless.
I just think this CAN be a worthwhile discussion provided people remain civil.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
MKjan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:35
Quote
mr_djaQuote
keefriff99There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Agreed that the issue is clearly about the Stones and also agreed that people should be able to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
However, the board has a clearly stated no politics or political discussions policy. MKjan's post was and is political. Comments similar to that are what will most likely get the thread shut down. Not "rank cowardice".
Possibly future posters will be able to avoid the politics and the thread will stay open. Having watched and participated in this type of thread at IORR in the past, my prediction stands that the discussion will degenerate and bv will close it.
Peace,
Mr DJA
Don't want to see this thread closed. My comment showed a perspective that negates
Waters and Masons comments, they are hypocrites….and should not have dragged the Stones into politics. As I said, Music first.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
laertisflash
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:37
Given the fact that this thread is still open, i express my opinion: i am agreeable to Waters - Mason suggestion. It's only a suggestion, of course. Just an appeal. The Stones will do what they want. But i wish they were lending a favourable ear to Waters - Mason appeal...
The reasons are so obvious...
The reasons are so obvious...
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
Stoneburst
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:42
While this thread's still open: 'we piss anywhere' was an acceptable approach when it came to sixties counterculture, it is not acceptable when the issue at stake is millions of Palestinians being denied their civil and political rights. Also, it's been decades since the Stones pissed where they liked. They are a part of the establishment they formerly put the frighteners on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:44 by Stoneburst.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-01 22:44 by Stoneburst.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:44
Whatever anybody else thinks about this subject, the Stones, especially Jagger, are all very well-informed about world events and world opinion, and will have gone into this with their eyes open. So I suspect persuasion and/or arguments will make no difference either way.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:46
Quote
DoomandGloom
These old fools can't even gather themselves to appear as a band but they're out there telling others what to do. Great as Floyd was few musicians are as petty to each other and self righteous to their peers. Now The Stones need to take sides in The Palestinian conflict? Waters is bastard for putting our guys in the middle of explosive and unpredictably dangerous politics.
amen and my thoughts pretty much exactly, when I read that. cheers, D&G
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:49
Quote
Stoneburst
While this thread's still open: 'we piss anywhere' was an acceptable approach when it came to sixties counterculture, it is not acceptable when the issue at stake is millions of Palestinians being denied their civil and political rights. Also, it's been decades since the Stones pissed where they liked. They are a part of the establishment they formerly put the frighteners on.
Nicely stated. Its amazing how that turnaround happens. Sting, who once did all sorts of Amnesty International work and wrote songs like "They Dance Alone" ultimately played for the dictator of Uzebekistan - a monster whose preferred deterrent to dissent is boiling people alive - at a price of $2 million for the private show.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
mr_dja
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:55
Quote
keefriff99I know that it's bv's site and policy, and I respect that...however, in this case, since it's so clearly about the Stones, I would hope he'd allow an exception.Quote
mr_djaQuote
keefriff99There is NO reason to close this thread other than rank cowardice.Quote
mr_dja
No Politics MKjan. No need to give people a reason to fight with each other. There's enough of that going on at the Ronnie's Solo's thread and the Keith recorded all over the world thread. Plus, it's been a while since bv has had to ban anyone for breaking rules, let's not give him reason here. Odd's are he'll close this thread as soon as he logs back in. No need for him to have to start banning people as well.
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your post, it's inappropriate here at this site.
Peace,
Mr DJA
This isn't some side issue...it's CLEARLY about the Stones, and people should be free to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
Agreed that the issue is clearly about the Stones and also agreed that people should be able to discuss the merit or lack of merit of what Waters and Mason wrote.
However, the board has a clearly stated no politics or political discussions policy. MKjan's post was and is political. Comments similar to that are what will most likely get the thread shut down. Not "rank cowardice".
Possibly future posters will be able to avoid the politics and the thread will stay open. Having watched and participated in this type of thread at IORR in the past, my prediction stands that the discussion will degenerate and bv will close it.
Peace,
Mr DJA
I know that since this is a VERY touchy subject, the conversation will likely devolve into ugliness, which will force bv to close the thread regardless.
I just think this CAN be a worthwhile discussion provided people remain civil.
I agree with your 3rd line 100%
I think your 2nd line states much of what I was trying to verbalize in my previous posts. Possibly better than I was doing myself!
Only because I'd rather have a discussion about this with my friends here at IORR can I get behind your first line. Just not sure that I'd go as far as being "hope"-ful.
Note: just to be clear, I've got no issue with you starting the thread. I'm actually glad you did as I wouldn't have known about it if you didn't. I'll raise a glass to you and try to be optimistic that the conversation doesn't degenerate!
Peace,
Mr DJA
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
BluzDude
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:59
If a band or musician has a fan base in any country, and the country will allow them to perform there, they should be able to do so, if they choose. By not doing so, it only hurts their fans in that country, irregardless (I know, not a real word) of politics.
...It should only be about the music.
...It should only be about the music.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: May 1, 2014 22:59
Quote
Aquamarine
Whatever anybody else thinks about this subject, the Stones, especially Jagger, are all very well-informed about world events and world opinion, and will have gone into this with their eyes open. So I suspect persuasion and/or arguments will make no difference either way.
Obviously, this was thoroughly considered by Jagger & Co. and they knew what Waters, et al would say. The Stones, like the vast majority of performers, do not agree with Waters, as can be seen by comparing his list of those who support his boycott with a list of performers who ignore it and play there. it is a non-issue.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
BluzDude
()
Date: May 1, 2014 23:05
Quote
RokyfanQuote
Aquamarine
Whatever anybody else thinks about this subject, the Stones, especially Jagger, are all very well-informed about world events and world opinion, and will have gone into this with their eyes open. So I suspect persuasion and/or arguments will make no difference either way.
Obviously, this was thoroughly considered by Jagger & Co. and they knew what Waters, et al would say. The Stones, like the vast majority of performers, do not agree with Waters, as can be seen by comparing his list of those who support his boycott with a list of performers who ignore it and play there. it is a non-issue.
...and those who choose not to play there, for some it's the politics, but for most, it's the death threats.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
1cdog
()
Date: May 1, 2014 23:06
They should mind their own D*** business!
It should be about the music.
It should be about the music.
Re: Roger Waters and Nick Mason call on the Stones to cancel Israel concert
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: May 1, 2014 23:11
now that i have read waters/mason argument i wish they add a second gig to the tel aviv concert, to compare israel to south africa apartheid is that stupid
This Thread has been closed
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