This song just popped up on random the other day in my Itunes, and I gave it a fresh listen, a few times, and something occurred to me about it, that may NOT have been discussed. If it has, my apologies!

(I don' t remember hearing anything bout this particular theory, in discussions at the time, and I did try the search engine today, briefly.)

I agree with those (Mathjis among others) who feel this CAN'T be a true Exile outtake, in the strictest sense. It has that VERY '60s sounding guitar, Vox Conquerer sound, it has the tremelo effect sounds which are very like 1968 (remnisdent of Beatles "Birthday" etc). Throw in the surf qualities to it and kind of goofy chorus/turnaround, they all add up to make no sense in the context of the heavy, moody, druggy party vibe of Exile. And it sounds NOTHING like the album.

It's a '60s track, to my ears, almost no doubt. But I think I have a guess as to why it's there?

WHY?

Because they wanted to see in 2010 if they COULD sneak one on there. From the ABKCO era.

It's probably an Allen Klein era song. I literally think they put it on there, (a) for a laugh and (b) as a TEST CASE, to see if ABKCO would "figure out" that it's from the ABKCO era and push back and sue, cause a stink, demand a recall, etc.

Maybe it was even like a feint, or a jab, to see how strong ABKCO would react, and to see if the pubic would notice it was CLEARLY a different animal from Exile.

And they didn't, Most people seemed to just ignore it.


I just can't help but feel like, if I was Mick Jagger, or one of the Stones, and if that WAS a true Allen Klein era track, that I could possibly sneak on there, onto Exile, as a joke, just to get one OVER on him...as in "ha ha ha, you're dead now, and do you see what I just did there?" ...

Well if I was Mick Jagger or the Stones camp, I would TOTALLY do it, just to get one over on him! Just because they CAN.

It was the year after he died! It's a dinky little instrumental bonus track, which I think they possibly included, as a way of TESTING to see how the surviving Klein's control people in his organization reacted to it. OR what they KNEW about the Stones vault! If the Klein camp heard it and went ballistic, well, now you know how life is gonna be from now on, now that Klein himself is gone. If it's not a big deal, if they don't care, well maybe the Stones can push a little harder for getting some of this stuff back. OR perhaps even pose a legal argument later, regarding unreleased tracks from the Klein era, which would be HUGE to the Stones if the status of ownership on those recordings changed.


I have no facts to back me up, of course. Just hunches. But I would NOT be surprised if something like this was going on, with that weird little instrumental track being on there. It's such a nothing track, and adds so little to the reissue. Why else would it be on there?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-16 18:32 by Turning To Gold.

While you are at it.......who killed JFK?

There's no 'sneaking' required. There's no ongoing dispute with ABKCo and lots of collaboration.

And as Jagger admitted in interviews that he considered a July 1969 recording of 'Loving Cup' to be the starting point of what could be considered 'Exile sessions' they were quite open all along that there was pre-1970 material on it.

Agree that theres absolutely no way this track dates from after 1969 though - but the probable reason for its inclusion is less sensational. They were more likely just desperate for filler as there arent many songs left over from the 1971 sessions that were completed.

Klein being six foot under is hardly an issue. The company still exists and is managed by his son.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-16 18:57 by Gazza.

ABKCO could have okayed it as well.

Never heard of it.

(*cough* see SN.)

Incidentally, I just finished the new book BEATLS VS. STONES and it spells out with a clarity I've seen nowhere else how Allen Klein really screwed the Stones. What a rat.

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DandelionPowderman
ABKCO could have okayed it as well.

Well, there is no need of okaying it. The Stones can use what they want. ABKCO and The Stones made up years ago. In 1989, to be more precise.

[www.iorr.org]

Found this from Rene. Title 5 is from 1967. Glad to hear it, even though not Exile related.

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Blueranger

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DandelionPowderman
ABKCO could have okayed it as well.

Well, there is no need of okaying it. The Stones can use what they want. ABKCO and The Stones made up years ago. In 1989, to be more precise.

Then they okayed it. Stones didn't buy the rights permanently?

... Um, where does anyone get the notion "most people just ignored" the fact that Title 5 is clearly not an Exile-era track?
People here and on other sites certainly noticed/discussed it, and at least some record reviews mentioned it.
(Unless of course you mean all the people in the whole wide world who still haven't even heard the re-release!)

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Blueranger
Well, there is no need of okaying it. The Stones can use what they want. ABKCO and The Stones made up years ago. In 1989, to be more precise.

The Stones "can use what they want" as long as the pay the appropriate fees,
but what has 1989 got to do with that?
(I don't pretend to know What the current agreements are between Jodie Klein and Stones Inc,
but even 40 Licks took a lot of negotiating beforehand and court-ordered auditing afterward.)

It's from 1967, isn't it?

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DandelionPowderman
It's from 1967, isn't it?

Some sources have it placed from the Exile era. In fact, I recall Bill Wyman writing that it was a jam he originated in the studio one day during the Exile sessions while waiting for Mick to show up. The producer is listed as Jimmy Miller and the engineers are Glyn Johns, Andy Johns, and Krish Sharma. If it came from Olympic studios in '67, then who would the producer have been? Produced by "The Rolling Stones?" But the only three Stones on hand were jamming on the track? Who was overseeing the session and working the board, adjusting the faders, turning the knobs? Were they self-producing that early?

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
It's from 1967, isn't it?

Some sources have it placed from the Exile era.

Then those sources are wrong. It's from 1967.

Mathijs

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stonehearted


Some sources have it placed from the Exile era. In fact, I recall Bill Wyman writing that it was a jam he originated in the studio one day during the Exile sessions while waiting for Mick to show up. The producer is listed as Jimmy Miller and the engineers are Glyn Johns, Andy Johns, and Krish Sharma. If it came from Olympic studios in '67, then who would the producer have been? Produced by "The Rolling Stones?" But the only three Stones on hand were jamming on the track? Who was overseeing the session and working the board, adjusting the faders, turning the knobs? Were they self-producing that early?

Glyn Johns pushed the faders during Satanic sessions, he should have gotten a co-producer credit really though.

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NEWMAN
While you are at it.......who killed JFK?

Are you the real Newman?

__________________________




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-08 00:30 by NICOS.

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stonehearted

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DandelionPowderman
It's from 1967, isn't it?

Some sources have it placed from the Exile era. In fact, I recall Bill Wyman writing that it was a jam he originated in the studio one day during the Exile sessions while waiting for Mick to show up. The producer is listed as Jimmy Miller and the engineers are Glyn Johns, Andy Johns, and Krish Sharma. If it came from Olympic studios in '67, then who would the producer have been? Produced by "The Rolling Stones?" But the only three Stones on hand were jamming on the track? Who was overseeing the session and working the board, adjusting the faders, turning the knobs? Were they self-producing that early?

You are confusing producing and engineering.

From a NY Times article on the Exile re-issue in 2010:

The rest of the bonus disc is very good, too, patchwork, mysteries and all. According to Mr. Was, two tracks come from Nellcôte — a petulant shuffle called “I’m Not Signifying” and an alternate version of “Soul Survivor,” sung by Mr. Richards. One other, a nasty R&B instrumental called “Title 5,” came from a tape box marked “1969,” though Mr. Was suspects it was made earlier. So do I.

Not sure if this info. was shared before.
Here's link the entire piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/arts/music/23stones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

1967

670209A 9th - 24th February: London, Olympic Sound Studios. Producer: Andrew Oldham
or The Rolling Stones. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Blues 1 (MJ/KR) -11th February, unverified
- Blues 3 (MJ/KR) -16th February
- Dust My Broom (Robert Johnson) -22nd February, unverified
- In Another Land I (BW) -14th February, unverified early version, (under title
Bill’s Tune)
- In Another Land II (BW) -22nd February, unverified early version, (under title Acid
In The Grass)
- Title 5 (MJ/KR) -17th February, take 1; instrumental; Exile On Main St.-
2010-remaster-version
- Title 9 (MJ/KR) -14th February, unverified
- Title 10 (MJ/KR) -14th February, unverified
- Trouble In Mind II (Richard M. Jones) -22nd February, unverified
- You Can’t Always Get What You Want I (MJ/KR) -22nd February, unverified
very early instrumental version
- 2000 Light Years From Home I (MJ/KR) –unverified early version under
title Loose Woman
+ blues jam ( ) -22nd February

[www.nzentgraf.de]

I think all these ideas title 5 is a 60s is a sixties track are "so divine".

Paint It, Divine...

Does this track (or similar versions) show up anywhere on the Satanic Sessions box set. I haven't dug that out in ages but, from what I recall, it sounds like it's from those same sessions to me. I just don't have 10 hours to sit and listen through it at the moment.

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DandelionPowderman
Paint It, Divine...

Paint it divine you Powderman!

Everything said so far, if we are in agreement it is 1967 and it is an abkco track then the attention should shift to why this particular Inst was used when any piece of "studio scrap" could had been put there???

I'm reading the Stones Gear Book at the moment and came across the Satanic sessions. Here, Babiuk/Prevost (p. 262) tell the following:
"Nonetheless, three numbers were worked on: 'Telstar II' and 'Manhole Cover', both of which remain unreleased in any form ..." (the rest is about an early version of She's A Rainbow.)
Telstar II - this must be Title 5!
Telstar One, so to say, is the one by The Tornadoes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-09 10:00 by JJHMick.

It does seem as though the bass has been messed about with though, maybe re amped to be more fuller or something as it's kinda different to Bill's usual bass tone from 1967.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-09 14:27 by His Majesty.

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treaclefingers

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Paint It, Divine...

Paint it divine you Powderman!

Don't forget the comma, treacle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-05-09 13:59 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman

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treaclefingers

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DandelionPowderman
Paint It, Divine...

Paint it divine you Powderman!

Don't forget the comma, treacle.

She doesn't say it with a comma though...no pause, she just blurts it.

LOL!

I always wonder if Alan Klien and people of his ilk still keep corkscrewing even in their graves? You gotta wonder about shameless greed such as that and how anyone can go so wrong. Colnel Parker and Robbie Robertson are another two of the kind just to mention two of millions.