Maybe Chuck will do a Dewey Cox and die on-stage. Fitting way to go out.

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stonesrule
Somewhere above, in this mass of insults and nuttiness, JumpinJeppeFlash speaks of IORR posters who "are simply not talented enough" to understand a
"bad performance".

Boy, are we all lucky to have a "master know-it-all" like JJF to point this out. Perhaps he'll condescend to post his musical resume.

I think we could all stand with a good 'schooling' from Jeppe.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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mtaylor
Wasn't it the same with BB King recently - people left the consert.
They should have the notion when to play and when to stop.

In regards to Stones, I guess Mick known when to stop - thank godness.

No, BB can still play, CB can not, the difference is big.

Be that as it may: Does Chuck Berry, the father of rock 'n roll, not deserve to do a farewell tour if he feels like it? He's not playing anywhere near the form he was in 20 years ago, that we can agree on. He actually plays beyond bad at the moment. That being said, give the man his due and let him do what he wants. It's his farewell tour. It's a shame he plays that bad, but he has, at the very least, earned the right to say goodbye.

JumpingKentFlash

Considering the fact that Chuck's son is a regular poster here I think this thread should be closed before it turns too ugly.

BB King is coming to DC in July and I'm tempted to get tickets. My son would love to hear him, he is one of his guitar idols. I figure we'll be happy to be there, no matter how BB plays...unless it's just embarrassingly bad. The same decision that Chuck Berry fans have to make.

I've been trying to get tickets to see BB King for a while, having missed him when he came comparatively close because I didn't know about it. I've never seen him, and I know what his current show is like so I'm not expecting miracles, but I want to say I saw that particular legend. So I'd say go for it, latebloomer.

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Stoneage
Considering the fact that Chuck's son is a regular poster here I think this thread should be closed before it turns too ugly.

Bless you Stoneage but lumps like these come with the territory. I'm sure Keith's children developed quite the thick skin as I have after the falling out of the tree incident.

People would be very surprised just how many of the "Children" read this and other forums like it. This one gets a tremendous amount of attention due to it's size and BV's dedication to the band.

Some my feel the knife's razor edge critique but hey, not much anyone can do about it. I look at it as one's right to voice their opinion.

CBII

I just Dl'ed a Frank Sinatra 1986 radio show in Milano. Is the show among Frankie's best? No. Was Frankie that night as good as he was in the 50's? No.

Did the audience leave the place with stars in their eyes? They certainly did, because they saw the Man, the Legend for real!

CB II your Dad is up there with Sinatra and other legends. Nuff said! Let him do what he wants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-16 16:52 by dcba.

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dcba
I just Dl'ed a Frank Sinatra 1986 radio show in Milano. Is the show among Frankie's best? No. Was Frankie that night as good as he was in the 50's? No.

Did the audience leave the place with stars in their eyes? They certainly did, because they saw the Man, the Legend for real?.

CB II your Dad is up there with Sinatra and other legends. Nuff said! Let him do what he wants.

yeah!

my father took me to see sinatra in the mid-80s. didn't want to go. he told me i had to go. thanks dad, i got to see one of the 20th century's greats.

CB is one of a handful of american musicians from the 20th century who should and will be remembered in 2114 as being transformative.

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dcba
I just Dl'ed a Frank Sinatra 1986 radio show in Milano. Is the show among Frankie's best? No. Was Frankie that night as good as he was in the 50's? No.

Did the audience leave the place with stars in their eyes? They certainly did, because they saw the Man, the Legend for real?.




Was Frank Sinatra an embarassment? No. Did spectators leave the concert because they were upset by what they saw/heard? No. Did the organizer have to reimburse the spectators because the concert was simply beyond bad? No.
Everyone understands that you are not the same at a certain age.
Charles Aznavous is almost 90 and he isn't an embarassment. Classical pianist Menahem Pressler, conductor Nikolaus Harnoncourt, jazz alto saxophonist Lee Konitz are all in their 80s, even 90s and none of them are an embarassment or have become an insult to (their) music.

The fact that Chuck Berry is either too cynical to stop destroying his own legacy in public or simply unaware to realize it is just sad. There's something terrible in seeing an old man -especially the great Chuck Berry- making a fool of himself in public.

The fact that people are ready to pay big money for that shouldn't be an excuse for this pathetic travesty of a concert.

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CBII
I look at it as one's right to voice their opinion.

Really admirable that you can look at it this way.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

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CBII

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Stoneage
Considering the fact that Chuck's son is a regular poster here I think this thread should be closed before it turns too ugly.

Bless you Stoneage but lumps like these come with the territory. I'm sure Keith's children developed quite the thick skin as I have after the falling out of the tree incident.

People would be very surprised just how many of the "Children" read this and other forums like it. This one gets a tremendous amount of attention due to it's size and BV's dedication to the band.

Some my feel the knife's razor edge critique but hey, not much anyone can do about it. I look at it as one's right to voice their opinion.

CBII, what is your opinion about your father's state and his ability to play? Some folks here have speculated wildly about whether he is 'all there' or whether folks are taking advantage of him. I am guessing that he genuinely WANTS to play, but simply is getting too old to do so with any skill. My critique is whether people should pay money for a ticket to see a legend embarrass himself on-stage for an hour. I am NOT saying that anyone is exploiting him, only that the performances are increasingly terrible.

I would feel the same way if it was my father, regardless of whether my dad had the impact of yours. As a fan of his work is pains me to see his current state. And the critiques are not relegated to a small group of fringe Stones fans...

http://www.jyllands-posten.dk/premium/anmeldelser/rytmisk/ECE6639728/chuck-berrys-katastrofe-koncert/

Translated...

Should we laugh or cry?

Chuck Berry's farewell concert in Randers Saturday night was like witnessing a car accident: horrible and fascinating at the same time.


But where in the first half of the concert was almost impossible not to just laugh disbelief of the miserable musical level, so tragikomikken was eventually replaced by the pure pity for guitar legend. And it was actually the worst thing that could happen. Even when American Chuck Berry in 2007 played a half bizarre and messy concert in Amager Bio, he was still the epitome of rock'n'roll, he created: a flippant, physical and untamed musicality that back in the 1950s managed to send cute shockwaves through a whole generation of young people. Berry hijacked restless hearts and wrote music history with a heady cocktail of aggressive guitar playing, aggressive songs about sex and fun and an elastic legwork that got parents to shake horrified head. And the guitarist's career and life since then has been pure rock'n'roll with ups and downs, salacious scandals and more prison sentences.

Now ended the sold-out concert at the plant in Randers with a grade-broken 87-year-old man with stuttering voice apologized for his incredibly poor hour-long concert. Whereupon he reeled groggy into the wings, while a sympathetic audience held their breath, fearing that the old guitar quite simply would collapse before their eyes.

Completely in black

This meltdown in mind, the concert really started very well. Chuck Berry came on the scene in a red mica-shirt and sailor cap, and sat in with the legendary riff of the classic "Roll Over Beethoven", was once a glorious brutal straight right in the spout of snobby high culture. In Randers was amputated at once sedate blues, where the main character underway sat down in a chair and rested legs. Fine enough. But then went cooperation between Berry and guitar all in black, and it seemed like only the intro and conclusion worked fairly well. The rest was pivfalsk and absurdly inconsistent. This listener had to simply abandon decode more of the numbers, Chuck Berry tried to revive - and his band seemed to share the confusion. Blues classic "Key to the Highway" drove into a ditch, and Berry could not remember the lyrics to his once-exuberant "School Days".

"I have the hiccups and can not carry a tune," said meekly from the confused singer, who also remarked: "You are incredible people. I applaud, but it can not possibly be the music, I applaud the. "

Band of powerlessness

The man looked alienated on his instrument, which had become utterly voiceless. But his inept and impotent band colleagues, in particular, counts his son was not able to reach him nystemt guitar or stiff him with musical backing. The painful session was complete.

It ended transboundary far as Berry chugged around with a framed picture of himself, he had been handed as he tried to hit the guitar strings. And he pulled his show on stage so that he had to explain misery.

A tab of Chuck Berry's rebellion arose when he encouraged the crowd to kick him off the stage, but it ended up instead with polite applause.

"What a disgrace to send an old man out on such a world tour," exclaimed a male spectator when the light was turned on.

Before the concert, you might think that this would be just the first of a series of "farewell" concerts with rock'n'roll villain Chuck Berry.

After Saturday's disaster performances seemed sadly as if it was indeed the last sad goodbye to a true legend.

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Aquamarine
I've been trying to get tickets to see BB King for a while, having missed him when he came comparatively close because I didn't know about it. I've never seen him, and I know what his current show is like so I'm not expecting miracles, but I want to say I saw that particular legend. So I'd say go for it, latebloomer.

I saw him in 1985, and I swear he was ancient then...but excellent!

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dcba
I just Dl'ed a Frank Sinatra 1986 radio show in Milano. Is the show among Frankie's best? No. Was Frankie that night as good as he was in the 50's? No.

Did the audience leave the place with stars in their eyes? They certainly did, because they saw the Man, the Legend for real!

CB II your Dad is up there with Sinatra and other legends. Nuff said! Let him do what he wants.

and not only that, let the people see him if they want.

CB II very gracious of you to have such a fair minded point of view. I imagine you must have some mixed feelings about what is happening on stage currently.

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CBII

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Stoneage
Considering the fact that Chuck's son is a regular poster here I think this thread should be closed before it turns too ugly.

Bless you Stoneage but lumps like these come with the territory. I'm sure Keith's children developed quite the thick skin as I have after the falling out of the tree incident.

People would be very surprised just how many of the "Children" read this and other forums like it. This one gets a tremendous amount of attention due to it's size and BV's dedication to the band.

Some my feel the knife's razor edge critique but hey, not much anyone can do about it. I look at it as one's right to voice their opinion.

CBII -I don't think any of this rubbish is warranted. Calling the Family Services? I think that's way over the line. I will see you at Blueberry Hill as soon as I can! Keep Rockin!!

In addition.. I looked at these clips. It would seem to me that Chuck still has his technique. It looks like his problem is hearing the music properly and that can be fixed. A Separation Shield in front of the Drum kit and noise reducing foam pillars about the stage work wonders. Some of us wear an aid as well...

very considerate of you, PT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 08:40 by stonesrule.

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PTownshend
In addition.. I looked at these clips. It would seem to me that Chuck still has his technique. It looks like his problem is hearing the music properly and that can be fixed. A Separation Shield in front of the Drum kit and noise reducing foam pillars about the stage work wonders. Some of us wear an aid as well...

Especially his constant delayed vocals made me think of hearing poroblems as well.

Whether he should tour or not is simply a question of what the market says. It's that easy. We can of course discuss the quality of the performance from a strictly technical point of view, but that's beside the point. It might well be that the audience is perfectly fine with just spending some time together with him and doesn't demand anything more at this stage of his life.

It is absolutely ridiculous that some people demand that someone should not work. I don't understand why people here get so angry about the fact that somebody sells something that others clearly want to buy. CB is long past his prime, that is clear, but the logic of the argument that he must quit and stay at home because some people here don't find his performance worth it is twisted.

Based on the same logic I demand that all people without whose work the society could live and whose work is really not worth the money they are getting for it stay voluntarily at home and stop recieving their sallary. My estimate is that about 80% of people in US and Europe would be unemployed then. I wonder how many of those people here that demand CB's retirement should quit their jobs based on this logic they so passionately express here.

Plus what CB does is based on market, he takes care of himself. He doesn't get state salary for doing absolutely redundant or often even counterproductive job as millions of state employees do. I find that much more disturbing than the fact that some musician sells tickets to his shows that don't live up to the standard he set 60 years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 12:18 by Happy24.

Spot on Happy and Pete T!!!

Keep on Rockin Chuck!!!!!

Live Forever

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Happy24
It is absolutely ridiculous that some people demand that someone should not work. I don't understand why people here get so angry about the fact that somebody sells something that others clearly want to buy. CB is long past his prime, that is clear, but the logic of the argument that he must quit and stay at home because some people here don't find his performance worth it is twisted.

Based on the same logic I demand that all people without whose work the society could live and whose work is really not worth the money they are getting for it stay voluntarily at home and stop recieving their sallary. My estimate is that about 80% of people in US and Europe would be unemployed then. I wonder how many of those people here that demand CB's retirement should quit their jobs based on this logic they so passionately express here.

Plus what CB does is based on market, he takes care of himself. He doesn't get state salary for doing absolutely redundant or often even counterproductive job as millions of state employees do. I find that much more disturbing than the fact that some musician sells tickets to his shows that don't live up to the standard he set 60 years ago.

He can work with whatever he wants, but he should not be on a stage anymore because he can't play and he is making a fool of himself, people are laughing at the old man and that is not funny. Not everyone knows what CB has done in the past and will remember him as a clown who can't play.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

Not everyone knows what CB has done in the past and will remember him as a clown who can't play.

I suppose that anyone who wants to see him (and is willing to pay a ticket for his gig) does actually know what he has done in the past. And no matter what his condition is like these days, people will remember him as an artist who invented rock and roll. I don't think anyone can actually ruin one's legacy - especially having such a revolutionary one as mr. Berry has - with anything one does in one's senior years - and now we are talking about a man who is a 87 (!) years old.

It might look to some eyes sad at the moment, but give us a few years, and none of this does really matter. Chuck Berry is one of the most significiant musicians of 20th Century, someone who actually made a huge difference to our cultural tradition, and always will remembered of that. Without whom not.

I had a chance to see him last year, but decided not to go, based on similar reasons quite many here have done. Just not my cup of tea to see my hero in such a condition, no matter how much I admire the man and how much his music has meant to me. But that's just my decision, quite many other people have made different ones, as sold-out shows indicate. Probably for many just to see him once in a lifetime live, and be in the same room as him while it is still possible, is enough. He is Chuck Berry in the end...

Hmm.. to make one clarification. I hold that 'market will decide', but I don't use this as an opportunity to declare right-wing economical/political views of 'market should decide, and nothing else does not really matter' - the latter kind of talk does not belong to this forum, no matter how tempting that might be ...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2014-04-17 15:30 by Doxa.

The market is what people want and are ready to pay for. If you love CB and want to spend an hour together with the old rocker and don't give a shit about solos in the right key, then you buy his tickets. Apparently there are many such fans out there.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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Happy24
It is absolutely ridiculous that some people demand that someone should not work. I don't understand why people here get so angry about the fact that somebody sells something that others clearly want to buy. CB is long past his prime, that is clear, but the logic of the argument that he must quit and stay at home because some people here don't find his performance worth it is twisted.

Based on the same logic I demand that all people without whose work the society could live and whose work is really not worth the money they are getting for it stay voluntarily at home and stop recieving their sallary. My estimate is that about 80% of people in US and Europe would be unemployed then. I wonder how many of those people here that demand CB's retirement should quit their jobs based on this logic they so passionately express here.

Plus what CB does is based on market, he takes care of himself. He doesn't get state salary for doing absolutely redundant or often even counterproductive job as millions of state employees do. I find that much more disturbing than the fact that some musician sells tickets to his shows that don't live up to the standard he set 60 years ago.

He can work with whatever he wants, but he should not be on a stage anymore because he can't play and he is making a fool of himself, people are laughing at the old man and that is not funny. Not everyone knows what CB has done in the past and will remember him as a clown who can't play.

Point to anyone who is laughing at him. Your grasping as straws to fill out your pathetic and incredibly disrespectful argument.

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treaclefingers

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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Happy24
It is absolutely ridiculous that some people demand that someone should not work. I don't understand why people here get so angry about the fact that somebody sells something that others clearly want to buy. CB is long past his prime, that is clear, but the logic of the argument that he must quit and stay at home because some people here don't find his performance worth it is twisted.

Based on the same logic I demand that all people without whose work the society could live and whose work is really not worth the money they are getting for it stay voluntarily at home and stop recieving their sallary. My estimate is that about 80% of people in US and Europe would be unemployed then. I wonder how many of those people here that demand CB's retirement should quit their jobs based on this logic they so passionately express here.

Plus what CB does is based on market, he takes care of himself. He doesn't get state salary for doing absolutely redundant or often even counterproductive job as millions of state employees do. I find that much more disturbing than the fact that some musician sells tickets to his shows that don't live up to the standard he set 60 years ago.

He can work with whatever he wants, but he should not be on a stage anymore because he can't play and he is making a fool of himself, people are laughing at the old man and that is not funny. Not everyone knows what CB has done in the past and will remember him as a clown who can't play.

Point to anyone who is laughing at him. Your grasping as straws to fill out your pathetic and incredibly disrespectful argument.

Incredibly disrespectful?

It's people like you who can't handle the truth.

It's clear that a number of people here don't like or respect Chuck Berry or "old people."

This thread is a drag.

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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treaclefingers

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JumpinJeppeFlash

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Happy24
It is absolutely ridiculous that some people demand that someone should not work. I don't understand why people here get so angry about the fact that somebody sells something that others clearly want to buy. CB is long past his prime, that is clear, but the logic of the argument that he must quit and stay at home because some people here don't find his performance worth it is twisted.

Based on the same logic I demand that all people without whose work the society could live and whose work is really not worth the money they are getting for it stay voluntarily at home and stop recieving their sallary. My estimate is that about 80% of people in US and Europe would be unemployed then. I wonder how many of those people here that demand CB's retirement should quit their jobs based on this logic they so passionately express here.

Plus what CB does is based on market, he takes care of himself. He doesn't get state salary for doing absolutely redundant or often even counterproductive job as millions of state employees do. I find that much more disturbing than the fact that some musician sells tickets to his shows that don't live up to the standard he set 60 years ago.

He can work with whatever he wants, but he should not be on a stage anymore because he can't play and he is making a fool of himself, people are laughing at the old man and that is not funny. Not everyone knows what CB has done in the past and will remember him as a clown who can't play.

Point to anyone who is laughing at him. Your grasping as straws to fill out your pathetic and incredibly disrespectful argument.

Incredibly disrespectful?

It's people like you who can't handle the truth.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the ability isn't diminished. How we choose to discuss it varies incredibly.

You've taken it upon yourself to describe him as "a clown you can't play". That I think is incredibly disrespectful.

Is that how you describe Keith's diminishing ability as well, or are you more selective in your criticism?