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DandelionPowdermanQuote
elunsiQuote
Mathijs
They simply acknowledge the fact that without the input of the other, albeit 5% or 50%, the end result is not Rolling Stones music.
Take Happy: the music is recorded at Nellcote, but the lyrics where written by Jagger and Richards in LA, and Jagger had a great deal of input in producing (vocals, backup vocals), mixing and mastering the track. And we don't know who wrote the riff, or the melody, or the breaks exactly. It could have been something Jagger was playing over and over out of boredom....
Mathijs
Interesting...
Usually everyone says that Mick had zero to do with it.
Mick himself said "we wrote the words..."
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MathijsQuote
straycatblues73Quote
Mathijs
Tremelo picked as in arpeggio indeed. PLaying the chord note by note instead of as one chord. Live taylor's part resembled the part he plays on this outtake, I guess it is the original take from Muscle Shoals, which in the end was dropped completely.
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Mathijs
surely that's two keith tracks with a dubbed taylor solo ?
I actually think you're right. It's an overdubbed open G part by Keith, it's not a Taylor overdub. That high pitched first chord on the Eflat is that chord that I think is typical for Taylor. What a mess the recording of this track is!
Mathijs
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TravelinMan
Just listened to Brown Sugar from Philly in '72 and Taylor opens with the same parts from Muscle Shoals, so I am convinced he did write/play those parts on the early version. To paraphrase Keith what said: "Ronnie can play like me, but I can't play like him." Pretty sure the same goes with Taylor.
Before people bash me as a "Taylorite"...I am a big fan of ALL the guitarists that the Stones ever had!
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TravelinMan
Suppose you're right. I don't understand how these guys forget what they played on. Or maybe they don't actually listen to their own records!
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TravelinMan
Right, I understand that. I can tell if my part gets wiped from a record though.
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LuxuryStones
Fortunately we got the live tapes. Essen 1970 speaks volumes, best version ever imo with a soaring Taylor solo.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
LuxuryStones
Fortunately we got the live tapes. Essen 1970 speaks volumes, best version ever imo with a soaring Taylor solo.
Yeah, he's down there somewhere - under Keith and Bobby
Nice version, but not with the intensity and nerve of this version, imo.
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DandelionPowderman
I wasn't thinking about the solo regarding this BS version, merely the feel of the song, which is more like the brutal rocking studio version than other faster live versions. The live versions tend to lose something along the way, imo.
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DandelionPowderman
About BS, the live versions aren't that different, but the groove is. That was my point. In one way it can be natural to speed up a number on stage - on the other hand, sometimes not
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DoxaQuote
DandelionPowderman
About BS, the live versions aren't that different, but the groove is. That was my point. In one way it can be natural to speed up a number on stage - on the other hand, sometimes not
Compared to BEGGARS BANQUET and LET IT BLEED material, much of them being 'studio experiments', "Brown Sugar" never needed such a new clothing, when transformed to play live. The sound they created there, based on already tested live sound and experience, was ready to go live. So it didn't needed to be much transformed or arranged differently to suit to their current live capacities. So the talk of different versions is a bit far-reaching, I agree with that. I think for most of non-Stones nerds, the band has always played the song about the same... But for the experts, those little differences in nuances are damn meaningful, especially the differences in the groove laid by Richards/Watts/Wyman.... Plus the people who see the differences only in what Taylor does...
- Doxa
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elunsiQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
elunsiQuote
Mathijs
They simply acknowledge the fact that without the input of the other, albeit 5% or 50%, the end result is not Rolling Stones music.
Take Happy: the music is recorded at Nellcote, but the lyrics where written by Jagger and Richards in LA, and Jagger had a great deal of input in producing (vocals, backup vocals), mixing and mastering the track. And we don't know who wrote the riff, or the melody, or the breaks exactly. It could have been something Jagger was playing over and over out of boredom....
Mathijs
Interesting...
Usually everyone says that Mick had zero to do with it.
Mick himself said "we wrote the words..."
I know
I think that was a surprise for a lot of people.
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DandelionPowderman
I wasn't thinking about the solo regarding this BS version, merely the feel of the song, which is more like the brutal rocking studio version than other faster live versions. The live versions tend to lose something along the way, imo.
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MathijsQuote
FP
Any idea who plays what on Brown Sugar?
Richards plays all guitars. Taylor's original part as can be heard on the outtakes, have been removed completely for the released track. What you hear is about five Keith parts. Left is the original open G track from Muscle Shoals, right is a rhtyhm track by Richards that is composed from three or 4 tracks. There's 2 guitars doing little one-string runs, a stanard tuned guitar doing a Berry-like rhythm, and during the verses (woo!) there's an overdub of an open G tuned guitar. And Richards does the acoustic. But basically, Taylor doesn't play on the released version of BS.
Live in 1972 and 1973 Taylor would play very close to his original rhythm track, which is a tremelo picked guitar.
This sounds interesting but how exactly are you concluding this stuff? Is this your educated opinion based on analysis of the outtakes? peace
There's about 6 or 7 outtakes of BS, and it is very interesting to hear how the production continued, with Richards first taking bits out of Taylor's track and overdubbing onto it, then replacing it altogether. Version III even has an overdubbed solo that sounds like Taylor, later removed again.
Mathijs