have always loved the song and tried to figure out who played what parts on the 3 guitars used on the song with all the great guitar parts truly a great song for any player to learn. Keith played the clean electric solo but I was unclear in my mind who played the outro descending line on guitar 3 electric on the INTRO
Taylor played nashville Strung 6 string,guitar 1and guitar 2 12 string
open g) but the artilce says he also played the electric guitar 3.So now

I thinking did Taylor also play some electric on the off verses and
fills.

Guitar World Acoustic April 03
with keith on the cover.

PAGE 84
Some of the greatest RS songs feature Richards's electric guitar in
open G,For which he famously removed the lowest string.BUT IT IS
actually Mick Taylor who used the tuning with that low sixth string
to spectacular EFFECT on WILD HORSES.

figure 8a depicts the intro with both TAYLOR's strummy nashville tuned
six string guitar 1 and MELODIC open g tuned 12 string guitar 2,
plus descending lines PERFORMED ON a clean electric in standard Guitar
3(the end where he plays 10/12 10/12 8/10/8/10 7/8)

figures 8b and 8c illustarte the open G and nashville tuned chord
fingerings used by Taylor throughout the song's verses and choruses.

This guy is really giving Taylor alot of INK and understands the
big influence he was on the song.

So Taylor did play electric on the intro my questiion could he of played

more electric on the fills on the off verses or are they
all KEITH.

Wild Horses what a ride

I forgot So now we know Taylor did add some electric on the
INTRO this was after Muscle Schoals because when you watch Gimme
Shelter its just the acousctic tracks with no elelctric.When did
Taylor add that part was it with Keith when he added his electric
solo later on.the documentaion on this song is so frustrating .

Good thread. I'd always assumed Taylor did both solos.

No I thought Taylor did the clean electric solo but learned through the
internet that it was keith.I could not believe that keith played that melodic
clean solo but he did.I further found a boot with keith's electric solo on it
that sounded so bad that proved to me Taylor could not of played that solo
because Taylor took only one take and we all know about his vibrato.

Keith can play melodic outside the penatonic box like his solo on slipping
away etc

No, I didn't know about Mick's vibrato. What's that? Tell us about it.

But seriously, I've given it a spin and now it's clearly Keith on lead throughout.

I think the acoustic which opens the song is MT - because after it's initial strumming it does some tasteful noodling - and other interesting things, but mainly because it's the other acoustic which carries the main guitar rhythm throughout - and that sounds strongly Keithish in emphasis and phrasing. So, mainly by process of elimination (eliminating Keith!) - Taylor must be the acoustic opening the song.

Your a funny bugger Deidreddy. You should take it on the road!

I didn't know that Mick played the opening eletric guitar riff on this song though I did know that he played the Nashville strung guitar and that Keith played the solo and fills. His guitar tone and style, espcially his vibrato, are all too distinctive. To quote Newton "One knows the lion by his paw."

I'll have to dig up my copy of that issue and have a look again!

I can remember that article very well, I bough that mag on the way back from NY to Milano after the MSG concert (HBO one)!

Correct me if I am wrong (I am at work and I don't have a cd with wild horses), but the electric guitar parts on WH should be the following (all in standard tuning).

Intro: the descending line
Verse: harmonics played around the 10th and 12th fret
Chorus: little fills and slides a la YCAGWYW
1st solo (over the C - F)
Following verses: fragments of solos, basically bits and pieces that anticipate the 2nd solo
Second solo: the one with THAT "mean" note!

Now I am quite sure that all of them are done by Keith.

The guitar on the intro is the same that plays on the chorus and the first solo (actually if you listen well you will hear that the 1st solo builds up a little earlier than the C-F part and actually is a continuation of the previous line).
No trademark Taylor's vibrato can be heard + the bends on the solo are 100% keith (check Sympathy on Ya Ya's)

The second solo, which could have been played on a different overdub session, is no doubt Keith. Again that "mean" melodic note that closes the first line of the solo is something that for beauty reminds me the first solo of Miles Davis on Autumn Leaves (Something Else - Cannonball Adderley).

C

One of Keith's best recorded efforts in my opinion. Sublimely beautiful and poignant. Regarding the harmonics during the verse, I had always thought that was Jimmy Miller (I don't have the album with me, so sorry if that is incorrect) on piano, nes pa?

Piano?

C

I hear two acoustic guitars, (one each channel) and one electric guitar(both channels) which does the two solos and all the tasteful licks inbetween.

Woof.

Deidre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the acoustic which opens the song is MT -
> because after it's initial strumming it does some
> tasteful noodling - and other interesting things,
> but mainly because it's the other acoustic which
> carries the main guitar rhythm throughout - and
> that sounds strongly Keithish in emphasis and
> phrasing. So, mainly by process of elimination
> (eliminating Keith!) - Taylor must be the acoustic
> opening the song.

It seems that its Richards in the right channel and Taylor in the left channel on Side 1. They reverse this for Side 2, except for Moonlight Mile.

Even after figuring this out, it seems odd that Taylor's channel begins both Brown Sugar and Wild Horses. Also, I think Taylor claims to have extended CYHMK, but the bridge between the two parts is in KR's channel.

The problem with these sorts of analyses is that there are reports of songs being put together by tape fragments so what appears in one channel might not be a continuous stream.

Yes indeed Liddas. Piano!

Have you heard those wild horses outtakes from a boot that i cant remember now.
keith's solos are real weak I always wondered how he got those final clean solos
down so beautifully.

Practice!

Yup, Smokey, because of this thread (and because I have vinyl and listened to a bit of Sway before WH started and then a bit of CYHMK after)) I reaised that Taylor is on the same channel on Sway as on CYHMK. And the opening WH acoustic comes from that same channel. So it kind of 'makes sense' that that would be him. Now for YGTM. But I won't believe the opening BS riff is him!.........will I?

I agree with Chris M that there is a piano in there. I remeber Jim Dickinson talking about it. It's him playing it. They bastardized the sound somehow.

Ian Stewart hated minor chords so he left the piano duties up to dickson.
keith was out of tune and was afraid to tell keith how to tune so he used
a tack piano and found an octave and a half range he could play with the stones.

As far as I know (there's this great article on the recordings by the engineer), at Muscle Shoals no overdubs were done. All overdubs were done at Olympic, and were done by Keith alone. The only guitar Taylor plays is the Nashville tuned guitar, al others, including all electric guitars are Keith.

Mathijs

Hi Mathis,

Is this the article

The "Brown Sugar" Sessions: Jimmy Johnson on Recording the Stones
By Bruce Borgerson
Photos courtesy of Jimmy Johnson


1 2 3



Were you the only engineer on hand for the Stones sessions?

Yes, I did all those myself, along with my assistant, Larry Hamby. It was supposed to be Jimmy Miller, from what I understand, but he didn't show up. It was my intention to assist him when the whole thing started, because I heard they would be bringing their own people. As it was, he never made it down. So I became the unofficial-official engineer for all those sessions.

Did you cut all the basic tracks here?

They did some overdubbing later, of backgrounds, saxophone and acoustic guitar. But electric guitars, lead vocals, piano and even the percussion was done right there, Jagger did that. Mick Taylor was on those sessions, of course, and during "Wild Horses" Jim Dickinson showed up, from Memphis. What happened is that their touring piano player, who was also their road manger, Ian Stewart, he played on "Brown Sugar" some, but during "Wild Horses" Jim Dickenson was out behind the where we put the guitar amps "Do you remember Paul Simon's 'Kodachrome' where we went to double time and the tack piano comes in, the piano kind of goes crazy? That was our tack piano, an old upright piano; we put tacks on the hammers so it sounded like a honky tonk. Anyway, Jim was back there just tiddling on it, playing along with what they had settled on as the groove, and Keith walked by and said, "Hey you need to play that!"

Let's try to reconstruct how "Brown Sugar" was tracked. First, what mics did you have set up, starting with the drums?

We only had three mics on the drums. We ran a U47 up over the top up over the top, about nose high to the drummer. We had a high stand out in front, with the mic facing downward at the kit, from the bass drum in with a little boom that came over the snare. So it gave a good overview of the whole kit, so you could play with a lot of dynamics and you could get an incredible sound. In fact, Charlie Watts wanted to buy that microphone! But of course, I wouldn't sell it. He couldn't get over the sound we were getting.

On the bass drum we used the E-V 666, a fantastic dynamic mic for the time. It was on a little stand looking to the backside of the drum. Then I had a hi-hat mic, which I think was another (E-V) RE-15, though it could have been a little (E-V) 635A, that remains in question.


Charle Watts, suffering U47 envy. The RE-15 was a better mic, had more response. We avoided using the 635A unless we had to. Actually, if not the RE-15 it might have been an SM57, more likely than the 635A.

And Charlie brought all his own drums?

Yes, he brought all of this own kit.




What guitar was Keith playing?

It was a Gibson, but not a Les Paul. Do you know that model that was right under the Les Paul, the solid body double cutaway-what is that? Oh yeah, the SG. I think it was an SG, and as I recall it was black. I remember it had those sharp horns on the cutaways. That's what he played most of the time he was here.
And Mick Taylor?

Taylor, to my recollection, was playing a Strat. And guess what we came up with for Bill Wyman? Do you remember those Plexiglas body basses that were around then? I checked with David Hood later and he says it was a Dan Armstrong. So to the best of our recollection, that's what it was. He played through David’s Fender Bassman setup, the tube head and separate box.

And the guitar amps?

Keith played a Fender Twin, and so did Mick Taylor, and they brought those in with them. The loudness on those tracks really came from Keith. I had it put in that back booth and shut the door on it.

So Mick's was out in the room?

Yeah, it was out, set where I normally played. If you looked from the control room it was on the left side, about the middle, facing toward the front. You see, we had all these wonderful baffles, covered with burlap, with that pink insulation underneath. We would corner off the sound with a couple of baffles up against each other. It would just knock the directness off, it took a lot of top end off.

Is that the full artical because I was just getting into that and it seemed to cut off rather abruptly!

Is this from a website - if so, could you post a link?

[www.prosoundweb.com]

try this

definately Keith on electric guitar....

Probably Taylor's best acoustic guitar moment.

Hmmmmmmm, so Keith used a SG for Brown Sugar but a black one? Hmmmmmmm I didn't know they came in black then!

I listened again......and the very first bit of lead guitar that comes in at the opening (just after the the change to Am)- (the one OpenG refers to) - That sounds Taylor....it's one reason I'd always assumed the rest of the lead it continued to be Taylor. Perhaps that bit alone is Taylor?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-06 21:36 by Deidre.

Chris, one of our guitarrists had a SG in black from the 60's. original paintjob.

Keith learned Open G from Brian!

Miss U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keith learned Open G from Brian!

Certainly not true. As discussed in a million other posts, he learned it from Ry Cooder, as told by Keith, Cooder, Taj Mahal and Mick Taylor.

Mathijs




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-06 21:47 by Mathijs.

In the Feb/04 issue of Guitar mag, there is an interesting quote from Mick Taylor in the article in reference to the April 62 gig by Jones at the Ealing Club on "Dust My Broom" with Paul Jones & BJ:

"Brian used Open G tuning which Keith was aware of, but didn't use himself".

We also know that in 69 at Cotchford, Brian was very into CCR, and his father has said Brian played him a song he was working on...and played HTW....so it is not hard to believe Brian may have conceived of the country-ish Honky Tonk Women, and maybe even the more rocked-up version. Mick Taylor has also stated that he just overdubbed the track.


[p207.ezboard.com]

Miss U. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > In the Feb/04 issue of Guitar mag, there is an
> interesting quote from Mick Taylor in the article
> in reference to the April 62 gig by Jones at the
> Ealing Club on "Dust My Broom" with Paul Jones
> & BJ:
>
> "Brian used Open G tuning which Keith was aware
> of, but didn't use himself".
>
> We also know that in 69 at Cotchford, Brian was
> very into CCR, and his father has said Brian
> played him a song he was working on...and played
> HTW....so it is not hard to believe Brian may have
> conceived of the country-ish Honky Tonk Women, and
> maybe even the more rocked-up version. Mick
> Taylor has also stated that he just overdubbed the
> track.
>

Your problem is that your so occupied with Jones that you desperately believe everything that makes Jones a better person.

I know of the existance of a C9-tuning for pedal steel guitar, but until the day that someone shows me how it works, I don't know jack shit about it. The same goes for Keith: it might have been known in the very early 60's that open tunings were used but that's it. As told by many, many people, Keith really learned about open tunings late 1967, and was taught how to play open G by Ry Cooder. This stated numeral times by many people. HTW was written in Brazil by Jagger and Richards late 1968. The guitar tune is fairly standard bluegrass guitar, the sort that Taj Mahal and Jesse Ed Davis knew everything about. It is known that tapes of the march 1969 sessions were sent to Jones, but that he mentally and phisycally wasn't ready for new sessions anymore. If the story of Brians father is true, I bet Brian played these tapes. I doubt it really, as Brian Jones and country music is something I don't see together. By the way, Taylor overdubbed a lap slide on Country Honk, but many, inlcuding Keith gave him credit of turning Country Honk into the electric version.

Mathijs

Funny how he doesn't mention anything in the article about Keith being 'out of tune' is that your adlib OpenG?

Also, Gramparsons.com says that Gram was the inspiration for the 'country Honk' version of HTW, which I find more believeable than it being Taylor.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-05-07 11:31 by RankOutsider.

Brian gave Keith a lot not just Anita but also the tunigs. Ry taught him how to use it and re-styled Honkey tonk women for Keith.