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Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 04:36

Quote
camper88
One is a solo artist, two is a duo, three is a trio, four is a quartet, and five is a quintet, and so on. Beyond the solo artist, they're all groups. That's why the AMA allows them all to compete in the same category.

Group, n. two or more figures forming a complete unit in a composition.

Duo, n. 1. a pair of people or things, esp. in music or entertainment.

2. Music--a duet. Ex.: When Mick invites a special guest onstage to sing a song with him, they are said to be duetting, not groupetting.

Duo /du-o/ pl. duos [It, fr. L, two] (1590) 1: DUET; 2: PAIR (2).

Quote
camper88
Buy yourself a dictionary or learn how to use google. But stop being an idiot.

Patronising, adj. 1. (used of behavior or attitude) characteristic of those who treat others with condescension. 2. camper88.




"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: slew ()
Date: September 25, 2013 04:39

What about the Kinks?

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 04:54

Quote
stonehearted
Duo, n. 1. a pair of people or things, esp. in music or entertainment.

So genius, is a trio a group? Or is it a trio? Hmmm. Has to be a trio and not a group, by your logic. A square can't be a rectangle if it's a square, right?

There's no question that two = duo just as three = trio, but they're both groups. (and a square is also a rectangle). These concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Take this simple test:

Tell us what word belongs in the following sentence (of which you can find many like it if you google the phrase)

They formed into _______ of two

a) groups
b) squads
c) platoons
d) gangs

Here's a quote: But in the days that followed, completely different characteristics developed: people did not appear in the open on the street corners to demonstrate, but joined in the complicity of the night. They formed into groups of two or three people, hundreds of small groups for systematic attack.

And here's another: Since the six people are randomly divided into three groups of two, each such division of the six people into three groups of two is equally likely.

Remember: the next time you want to make an idiot of yourself, Google is your friend.


Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-25 05:04 by camper88.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 05:15

Quote
camper88
One is a solo artist, two is a duo, three is a trio, four is a quartet, and five is a quintet, and so on. Beyond the solo artist, they're all groups. That's why the AMA allows them all to compete in the same category.

Then you should instruct the AMA to remove the term "DUO" from Favorite Pop/Rock Band/Duo/Group, to relieve the redundancy--since they're all the same according to you.

While we're on the topic of redundancy, anyone who thinks they need to make a point by calling someone an "idiot" doesn't have a point to make to begin with.

I believe the dictionary has a term for your type of discourse. Why not look up the word "JERK"? Should be like looking in the mirror for you.

For your pseudo-intellectual gibberish, I think you deserve a nice pat on the back:




"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 05:25

Quote
treaclefingers

Remember, I'm here to help.

And you're doing a hell of a job, Brownie. :-)

Please consider these entries from Wiki:

The White Stripes were an American rock duo, formed in 1997 in Detroit, Michigan. The group consisted of drummer Meg White (drums and occasional vocals) and songwriter Jack White (vocals, guitar, and keyboards).

The Black Keys is an American rock band formed in Akron, Ohio in 2001. The group consists of Dan Auerbach (guitar, vocals) and Patrick Carney (drums).

Tenacious D is a . . . well you know the rest.

I hope that's not blowing stoner's mind . . .



. . . but that's about as hard as this concept gets: a duo is also a group (of two), like a square is also a rectangle, like a dolphin is also a mammal.


Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-25 05:33 by camper88.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: NoCode0680 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 05:35

Quote
camper88
I hope that's not blowing stoner's mind but that's about as hard as this concept gets: a duo is also a group (of two), like a square is also a rectangle, like a dolphin is also a mammal.

Nah, I get it man. If dolphin's are mammals, then we're the aliens right?


Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 05:40

White Stripes are not groups per se, but duos with band names.

Solo artists can also have band names, and it's happened several times: Dashboard Confessional is Chris Carrabba. Owl City is Adam Young. Summertime's End is Daniel Throssell. Nevershoutnever is Christopher Ingle.

Any wiki entry might list the above "bands" as "groups" and list only one person after "band members".

So now the concept of band/group gets tricky, and I doubt the AMA would class the above one-man "bands" as solo artists. Let's just hope our fearless hero, Mr. 88, can get his helium head round this concept and still be a happy camper.




"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 05:58

Quote
stonehearted

Solo artists can also have band names, and it's happened several times: Dashboard Confessional is Chris Carrabba.

Dashboard Confessional Past members:
Chris Carrabba
John Lefler
Scott Schoenbeck
Dan Bonebrake
Jerry Castellanos
Andrew Marshall
Susan Sherouse
Mike Marsh


Quote
stonehearted
Nevershoutnever is Christopher Ingle.

Never Shout Never members
Christofer Drew Ingle
Taylor MacFee
Hayden Kaiser
Never Shout Never Past members
Dustin Dobernig
Nathan Ellison
Caleb Denison
Tyler Dalton



Quote
stonehearted
Owl City is Adam Young.

And he's described not as a group but thusly: Owl City is an American electronica project created in 2007 in Owatonna, Minnesota, one of several such projects by singer-songwriter and multi-instrumentalist Adam Young.



Quote
stonehearted
Any wiki entry might list the above "bands" as "groups" and list only one person after "band members".

Yeah, it might, but it doesn't. It lists bands as bands and singer-songwriters as singer songwriters.

Quote
stonehearted
So now the concept of band/group gets tricky

No. It's not tricky. As a quartet and a trio is a group so, too, is a duo.

For example, from wiki: Simon & Garfunkel were an American music duo consisting of singer-songwriter Paul Simon and singer Art Garfunkel (both born in 1941). They formed the group Tom & Jerry in 1957.

The nerve that they formed a group and called it a duo!!

I know . . . mind blown





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-09-25 05:59 by camper88.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: shattered ()
Date: September 25, 2013 06:11

Kansas - from the 1970's, all alive.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: Wry Cooter ()
Date: September 25, 2013 06:19

Quote
slew
What about the Kinks?

As mentioned, original bassist Pete Quaife passed away a few years back. However, his replacement John Dalton, is still alive. Dalton actually played with the Kinks as early as 1966 as a fill in for Quaife after he broke his leg, and played bass on the great "Dead End Street". He replaced him as a full time member in 1969 up until around "Misfits" I think. Also Keyboardist John Gosling from that era is still on the planet.

The name of the member of Jethro Tull who had a sex change is David/Dee Palmer.

This thread is an effin' mess!

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: NoCode0680 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 06:25

Quote
Wry Cooter
This thread is an effin' mess!

Don't worry, things should become clearer once the "Kanye West announces the Yeezus tour!" thread gets merged in here later.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 06:39

Quote
camper88
I know . . . mind blown

Not quite.

You seem to like wiki as an authority, so here's one for you:

"Because of [Hall & Oates'] chart success, Billboard magazine named them the most successful duo of the rock era, surpassing The Everly Brothers."

Hmmm. Why not just compare them to The Beatles or Jimi Hendrix Experience--could it be that a duo is in a class of its own.... as a opposed to a group or a band?

Let's read on....

"In 2003, Hall and Oates were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Billboard magazine had Hall & Oates at No. 15 on their list of the 100 greatest artists of all time and the No. 1 duo."

Number 1 duo? That should also make them no. 1 above all groups/bands, but no, they're just a duo.

Know why they're just a duo? Because they had groups of musicians playing behind them, the Hall & Oates band, the Simon and Garfunkel band, the Everly Brothers band.

When on stage they feature a group behind them, because if you are just two, you are just a pair, a duo, and not a band or a group.

Two's company, three's a crowd.


"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: NoCode0680 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:11

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
camper88
I know . . . mind blown

Not quite.

You seem to like wiki as an authority, so here's one for you:

"Because of [Hall & Oates'] chart success, Billboard magazine named them the most successful duo of the rock era, surpassing The Everly Brothers."

Hmmm. Why not just compare them to The Beatles or Jimi Hendrix Experience--could it be that a duo is in a class of its own.... as a opposed to a group or a band?

Let's read on....

"In 2003, Hall and Oates were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Billboard magazine had Hall & Oates at No. 15 on their list of the 100 greatest artists of all time and the No. 1 duo."

Number 1 duo? That should also make them no. 1 above all groups/bands, but no, they're just a duo.

Know why they're just a duo? Because they had groups of musicians playing behind them, the Hall & Oates band, the Simon and Garfunkel band, the Everly Brothers band.

When on stage they feature a group behind them, because if you are just two, you are just a pair, a duo, and not a band or a group.

Two's company, three's a crowd.

Not that I care about this duo/band discussion you guys are having, but I don't think Billboard keeps a separate chart for duos though, it was a magazine story in which they took the angle that they had outsold the Everly Brothers. A picture of Hall and Oates with sad faces saying they hadn't outsold Thriller doesn't make for a good cover story.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:17

Quote
stonehearted

Number 1 duo? That should also make them no. 1 above all groups/bands, but no, they're just a duo.

Usain Bolt is the world's no. 1 fastest human, so that should also make him the world's fastest mammal, but no he's just a human. Could there be a number one fastest mammal that's not a human? How can that be? (hint: they're not mutually exclusive entities, but we'll get back to that)

While humans are mammals, there are other kinds of mammals--like cheetahs, which happen to be faster than even the fastest human.

Similarly while a duo is a group there are other kinds of groups, like trios and quartets, that happen to be more successful than the most successful duo. So you can be the most successful duo without being the most successful group just like you can be the fastest human without being the fastest mammal.

Again. let's review:

Group, n. a number of people who are connected by some shared activity, interest, or quality

There's really three parts of this idea you need to familiarize yourself with:
1. a number (like 2, for instance)
2. of people ("people" means more than one person)
3. connected by a shared activity (connected by playing music, for instance)

We call such a thing a "group."

The concept that you seem to really struggle with is the idea some things are not mutually exclusive. Spend a little time getting familiar with the concept and you won't appear to be such an idiot. Or don't, and keep on looking like an idiot.

Completely your choice.


Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:22

Quote
NoCode0680
I don't think Billboard keeps a separate chart for duos

Of course they don't. They just keep stats on who the most successful artists are by classification of artist type. Beatles, most successful group. Hall & Oates, most successful duo. Elvis, most successful solo artist.

And since we're discussing bands with stringed instruments, it takes 3 to make a group, because this is what it takes to form a band:



According to the above illustration, 2 as a duo does not a group make.


"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: NoCode0680 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:32

Quote
stonehearted
And since we're discussing bands with stringed instruments, it takes 3 to make a group, because this is what it takes to form a band:



According to the above illustration, 2 as a duo does not a group make.

Bands don't have to have any stringed instruments. Or drums for that matter.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:39

Q: Who won the 2013 Brit Awards for Best International Group?
A: The Black Keys.

Not bad for a duo

[www.capitalfm.com]


Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: VoodooLounge13 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 07:44

Quote
Spodlumt
ZZ TOP - SAME LINEUP SINCE 1969!

Dang I was reading thru and couldn't believe that no one had mentioned them yet, and was getting ready to post them too! Oh well! LOL Yes, I believe that their first album came out in 1969? And their last album is just as good as that first one!!

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 08:24

Quote
NoCode0680
Bands don't have to have any stringed instruments. Or drums for that matter.

That may be well and good in today's computerized, super-sampled, technotronic Millenium, but the title for this thread begins with "1960s bands", and I can't name any off-hand that didn't have all of the above included in their set-up--that being guitar, bass, and drums. Even The Doors used a bass player to record all their albums. But maybe you know something about 1960s bands I don't.

And by the way, every 1960s act mentioned in this thread was a band, a group, except Simon and Garfunkel, who were a duo, a pair, and had to have a group of musicians playing behind them, otherwise it would just be one acoustic guitar and two voices.


"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Date: September 25, 2013 08:28

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
NoCode0680
Bands don't have to have any stringed instruments. Or drums for that matter.

That may be well and good in today's computerized, super-sampled, technotronic Millenium, but the title for this thread begins with "1960s bands", and I can't name any off-hand that didn't have all of the above included in their set-up--that being guitar, bass, and drums. Even The Doors used a bass player to record all their albums. But maybe you know something about 1960s bands I don't.

And by the way, every 1960s act mentioned in this thread was a band, a group, except Simon and Garfunkel, who were a duo, a pair, and had to have a group of musicians playing behind them, otherwise it would just be one acoustic guitar and two voices.


could have been a 1960's all vocal doo wop group that had on instruments in their songs

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: stonehearted ()
Date: September 25, 2013 08:48

Quote
camper88
Q: Who won the 2013 Brit Awards for Best International Group?
A: The Black Keys.

Not bad for a duo

Are they really a duo though? They seem to be more of an incomplete garage rock band, a sort of fragmented pair who don't seem to understand that rock bands work best with a full rhythm section--but they're getting the idea, as their wiki page mentions that since 2010 they've included 2 other touring musicians to fill out the sound.

That 2-person guitar/drums type of "band" seems to have been a trend that came and went with the 2000s. Even Jack White is playing with a real band these days.

But are The Black Keys really a duo? A duo is 2 people who have separate but equal billing, and who tend to sing, to duet, together. The Black Keys are really just like The White Stripes--only with a better drummer.

Well, anyway, it was nice talking with you--and even more fun getting the chance to be insulting toward you. I take it back, what I said above. You can call me an idiot anytime you like--because with everyone always so polite around here, it's good to unload once in a while.

Well, gotta go now, because as one member of "the dynamic duo" said to the other (because they two were not a group): "To the bat poles!"










"Even Hearts of Stone Can Crack"

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: September 25, 2013 09:39

Yup, the Black Keys are a duo, who these days supplement the band with extra musicians who aren't part of the core band. (See--Tim Ries, etc.) And Meg was perfect for the Stripes, a band I adore to excess, probably.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: ash ()
Date: September 25, 2013 09:56

Quote
Wroclaw
The Shadows and the JImi Hendrix experience (*)

* can all unite at the next world.

Sadly you're right about the Experience.
However, i'm afraid that if Jimi doesn't want to reform the Experience on the other side then he could use The Shadows original (and best) rhythm section - drummer Tony Meehan (who was about 15 on their first records) and bass player Jet Harris.
I'd like to add my support for whoever pointed out Manfred Mann (a fine band in their 60s incarnation) and Them. Can't see the happiest man in showbiz agreeing to that though.
Incidentally, The Manfreds with both Paul Jones and his replacement Mike D'Abo continue to tour with the original line up with the exception of Manfred.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: September 25, 2013 15:22

Quote
camper88
Quote
tatters
The Rascals reunion tour has me wondering if there are any other groups that released records in the 1960s who are still touring with ALL of their original members. I came up with only one:

Crosby, Stills and Nash


Any others?

Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young?

Played live gigs in 1969, but didn't release a record together until 1970.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: NoCode0680 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 15:33

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
NoCode0680
Bands don't have to have any stringed instruments. Or drums for that matter.

That may be well and good in today's computerized, super-sampled, technotronic Millenium, but the title for this thread begins with "1960s bands", and I can't name any off-hand that didn't have all of the above included in their set-up--that being guitar, bass, and drums. Even The Doors used a bass player to record all their albums. But maybe you know something about 1960s bands I don't.

And by the way, every 1960s act mentioned in this thread was a band, a group, except Simon and Garfunkel, who were a duo, a pair, and had to have a group of musicians playing behind them, otherwise it would just be one acoustic guitar and two voices.

I wasn't even talking about that really, but there are plenty of examples these days for sure. And that stuff didn't just come about this millennium. Kraftwerk for example. And I know it said bands of the 60's, but that's not what you guys were talking about, you guys are arguing over the semantics of the word "band" and "duo", not 60's music, and I was just commenting on that. Dashboard Confessional aren't a 60's act either, but you brought them up.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: camper88 ()
Date: September 25, 2013 15:50

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
camper88
Q: Who won the 2013 Brit Awards for Best International Group?
A: The Black Keys.

Not bad for a duo

Are they really a duo though?

Yes, they really are.

Did you even read the headline of the article, it gives you all the clues you need:

The 'Lonely Boy' duo won over the likes of Fun. and The Killers at this year's ceremony.

Reading is your friend

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: leteyer ()
Date: September 25, 2013 15:53

Quote
tatters
Lots of times a band's original lineup is not the same thing as its best-known lineup. For example, all five members of Genesis's best-known lineup are still very much alive, and Genesis did release an album in 1969, but not all of those five guys were on it. So it gets a bit tricky.

Yes, actually two "newcomers" are part of the best known lineup...Same with Yes and king Crimson...maybe is a prog thing.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: September 25, 2013 16:48

Quote
stonehearted
Quote
2000 LYFH
I forget which thread title I am responding to but the:

Vanilla Fudge - very good Long Island band from the 60's (managed by reputed Lucchese crime family member Phillip Basile).

Tim Bogert is now retired, but Mark Stein, Vince Martell and the great drummer Carmine Appice are still touring.

For those that do not know Bogert and Appice teamed up with Jeff Beck around 1973 for a short lived group - Beck, Bogert & Appice. Bogert & Appice were also in a band called Cactus...

I saw them in 2011 on their farewell tour. They said they were retiring--have they changed their mind?

Looks like they are touring this year:

[www.vanillafudge.com]

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: September 25, 2013 18:12

I was trying to think of what the biggest 60's band that could still tour with all the original members, and I remembered a "big band" that was huge but is now somewhat forgotten: Blood, Sweat, and Tears!

Checking Wikipedia, it looks like all of the original members might still be with us.

Re: OT: 1960s Bands That Could Still Tour With ALL Of Their Original Members
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 25, 2013 18:24

Quote
camper88
Quote
treaclefingers

Remember, I'm here to help.

And you're doing a hell of a job, Brownie. :-)

Please consider these entries from Wiki:

The White Stripes were an American rock duo, formed in 1997 in Detroit, Michigan. The group consisted of drummer Meg White (drums and occasional vocals) and songwriter Jack White (vocals, guitar, and keyboards).

The Black Keys is an American rock band formed in Akron, Ohio in 2001. The group consists of Dan Auerbach (guitar, vocals) and Patrick Carney (drums).

Tenacious D is a . . . well you know the rest.

I hope that's not blowing stoner's mind . . .



. . . but that's about as hard as this concept gets: a duo is also a group (of two), like a square is also a rectangle, like a dolphin is also a mammal.

All of that makes a lot of sense, thanks so much for taking the time to explain the same point over and over again throughout this thread.

You have so much patience.

And as you've endeavoured and persevered really, in making this same point over and over (as in more than once), I think I'm safe to describe this as your group of rants.

I was wondering if you'd be able to spend just a little bit of time describing what makes you so angry, and quick to call people names. Ah, you probably have loads of friends, so what do I know. winking smiley

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