There are so many posts of angry whiners who are always complaining about fellow fans who just dare to give a negative or a not positive review. The whiners keep bashing them! Even calling them... whiners! Making all sorts of not so nice suggestions like asking angry questions such as "were you there?!!?" You know, like they had no right to give their opinion.
But when other people are all smiles after watching the same videos the whiners just praise and cheer them and totally forget to ask the cheerleaders the same "were you there?!!? question. And now even another battle has come to the surface on iorr; between the Taylorites and the others!

Being confronted with this crazy and ridiculous but understandable attitude I thought it would be best to go and see some shows.
So I decided to combine some business and pleasure with concerts in CA and NV right after Echoplex. And found out that the not so positive people are right! More about that later...

First; I had fun! Because I like America. Always did. Each time I go to the States I'm excited. It's not just a big country with fantastic cities and national parks and stuff but the people are nice as well.
Yes there are weirdos but in general it's always very good to be in America and to see how nice people are to each other and to people visiting.
When the Stones are touring the USA...very nice to see them in the same trip! It's always exciting to see them in good health doing what they like so much.
And it's always fun to chat with everyone from the old days, nice memories come back at those moments.

On stage: their quality of play surprised me sometimes in a positive way!
However 'sometimes' is not the same as 'always'. And it's a disappointment they stick to set lists with far too many warhorses. Yes they are around 70 so that's not something to complain about but to respect them for. Respect them for still working; for the money? No they really don't have to do that anymore... But they should have rehearsed more between Newark and LA. Just two weeks is too short. Especially when you are 70. They are getting better though, I have to admit! Anaheim2 and Staples 2 showed improvement!

Highlights? San Jose was in total a very good show. Coherent play, a good attitude on stage and the best guests so far imo with very well played songs IAON and LIB. Nice surprise to see and hear MT on Satisfaction for the first time in ages! But not very well played.... Good choice was NE, always liked that one. First night at Staples I liked the opening GOOMC and TLT too...probably because it was the first songs in years I saw! Like so many other people that night. Factory girl...I like those songs.
But ER...strange atmosphere, totally not fitting imo. Good to see Lisa on GS. MR with MT the first show I saw it was special. But was it very good? Hmm...in Las Vegas MR was better. Gwen Stefani is absolutely bs as a guest but a nice chick to chat with. Respectable was good.

LWM and ADTL was nice in Oakland but Dead Flowers was better...those slower songs are always better imo because they play too many faster songs.
(Put Dead Flowers next to Let It Bleed and Factory Girl, they could do that... But why put D&G and OMS between Sway and CYHMK like in Staples2???)
LRR with TW was also bs; how to throw a song in a garbage can... shame!
Anaheim 1 was nice because of C&R and RO but mostly for WOAF, that was cool. But Anaheim 2 was much better... Dave Grohl on Bitch was great. And YGTS, just for the memories. Not a very good version but always very nice to hear.
I'm glad I could see the highlight of the tour so far at the second Staples show. FAE is always a nice and funny song but the surprise was when I read Sway and CYHMK on the set list! And they played it very good! Taylor surpised me!
So that really was very very special...emotional and even sentimental.

The rest of the songs?
Well here comes the hard part for all you whiners...those people who posted their doubts and criticism have a point; it's just not worth 600 dollars. Not even 60. Even Satisfaction with MT: I don't care that much. I like the original studio version which is a lot better and MT really doesn't add anything significant (yet).
Except the emotional and sentimental part which is valuable in itself but they should not run into that...it's just not a musical achievement.
And JJF, YCAGWYW, SFTD, BS, TD, SMU, MY, BTMMR, H, HTW, MR, DAG and OMS? More than half of the set list looks like this and that's boring. Even Midnight Rambler could not really do a lot with me although the first night and in Las Vegas it was very good. But the arrangement is so... more of the same every night over and over again (MJ asking; "somebody say 'yeah'..answer; "YEAH!" ).
It's still a very good song but the adventure level is too low for me and I just don't like those far too predictable games he plays (he should forget about the audience and just have fun, like on CYHMK at Staples2!)
But that will be a different experience when you see them just one evening, I realize that. However most of us IORR'ians see them several times on stage! Or at least watch all the videos and listen to cd's of all the shows we bought...

After the MT era they really surprised me a couple of times with their group enthusiasm and good cooperation together (Steel Wheels), very reasonable or fair albums (Tattoo You, Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge), very good tours (Steel Wheels & (even better!) Urban Jungle and the European part of the Voodoo Lounge Tour) and some excellent club gigs during Voodoo Lounge with Paradiso as their two best performances in 40 years...
In a way they surprised me as well with how they played in 2012. I had serious doubts KR could still follow but he did! After that I think they made a mistake to stop after just five shows. And as I said rehearsing just two weeks in LA was too short imo. Also the set list needs some refreshments. They are doing the same trick for far too long over and over again. Hardly any musical adventure, just some adjustments in stage, light and arrangements are not enough.

Well it was a good trip and I was happy with a lot of things. The sun was shining for me in the USA!
And concerning the Stones: I always was there for not just the music so I don't mind saying I don't like their shows anymore as I did years ago...I still like to be there because of the people. And I still like the boys a lot but the atmosphere between them.. I mean offstage and backstage it has been WW3, WW4 and WW5 for years...just business you know but onstage I always could see some form of understanding. During a video or photo shoot, it's always been ok; 'the making of' or a documentary things always looks good between them because these guys are professionals. And I always used to see an agreement between them in their performance but now...they don't interact.
I just notice a cold atmosphere (onstage) with only once or twice (rare!) a professional smile or a short sort of handshake between MJ and KR.

IMO: how MJ and KR interact while performing determines their future far more than the possible AEG or Live Nation deals which are on the table at this moment.
I really think it will be very difficult to have MJ say yes to another 18 shows and the "I would lie to my mother" interview did not improve that political situation.

So if you can buy a 100 dollar or so ticket for the east coast or for the UK: go see them while you still can...

And Cocaine Eyes: did you have fun in Toronto? Tell me your experiences...you know them better!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-26 18:47 by Dreamer.

Excellent post.

OK, about the MJ/KR relationship on stage and off:

I choose to take it as it is - these guys are no longer living in 1972 or 1975 where the cocaine was everywhere and people were gunned out of their minds.....on stage and off. Gone are the days of Jagger jumping on balloon penises on stage. Gone are the days of Jagger French kissing Ronnie on stage. Gone are the days of Jagger wearing a skirt (and "Keith doesn't know whether to laugh or cry" ) type of thing. These men have grown up!!

What matters most is the MUSIC!! I think that musically and vocally they are amazing. I nearly bawled my eyes out (in JOY!!) during Keith's "You Got The Silver". I loved Ronnie's guitar work all night long. I adored Mick Taylor's playing and BEING THERE!! I think Mick Jagger's vocals are superb!! Charlie Watts is still 'Mr. Watts' to me - he's a perfect English gentleman and the best drummer ever. I love and adore this band! Period. (I do miss my Bill Wyman terribly.....). I do get along well with Darryl but that's a long and funny story which began a few years back.

The backing people are there for a reason and I like them all very much. YES, even Chuck Leavell.

The ONE tune I could always live without is "Miss You". Can't really explain why. I also am not crazy about "You Got Me Rockin'". But hey, that's life in the big city!

Bottom Line: This is my band FOR LIFE! These people are my FRIENDS for life. If this sounds too 'sugary', perhaps it is. But I met this band (Keith first) during a terribly trying time in 1977 in Toronto. I'll never forget those days with all of that trouble. Stu Stewart stood by Keith when all the rest took off from Toronto to places unknown. That said.....this band DID come together in Oshawa to assist their Prodigal Son when he was under extreme duress.

Are Mick and Keith 'cold' towards each other? I don't really see it that way. I just see it as men who have grown up. They each have their separate groups of friends, their wives/women/entourages/body guards/drivers/etc. I don't expect them to be messing around in the dressing rooms as perhaps they were in 1969, 1970, 1972, 1975 and even 1978.

But when push comes to shove.....Mick will be there for Keith and Keith will be there for Mick. Always. And the members of this band will be there for everyone involved.....always.

Did I even remotely respond to your post, Dreamer?

Oh wait - and about my other thread which has turned into (yet again) a gigantic fight for no good reason - there are talks to be held soon-ish about what the band will do later in 2013. My best guess would be a return to California to do *something* and perhaps some smaller gigs in the USA and Canada. Stonesdoug has made reference to November 20, I think. Well, I don't have any exact dates like that but I would say (God willing) that the Stones will return to North America later on in 2013. Take that as you will!!

A very realistic and sobering post. While they are sounding pretty good there is still room for improvement. For instance what happened to four songs with Mick Taylor, now back to two. In my opinion they have the resources to make this an exceptional tour. What's stopping them? Maybe it's the "leave them wanting more" tactic? How much longer can they stretch it out? While I would enjoy seeing them perform for many more years to come I really think they should go all out right now.

Lately I have been thinking this will be the last time I will go see them, in Hyde Park no matter which way it goes. Because as Dreamer indicated above it's become too repetetive/boring. I feel if the die hard fans start to lose interest than the tourist will probably soon follow. After all where are they going to get the motivation? I believe it comes from people like us that have been carrying on for so long that attracts them.

Anyhow I too will always enjoy the music for what it's worth. George Harrison sang "All Things Must Pass" he was a smart guy.

not all things....rap music, for instance.

That's why Kanye West will "Guest Star" when the Stones play NYC.

Quote
stonesrule
That's why Kanye West will "Guest Star" when the Stones play NYC.

east meets west...it doesn't get any better!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-05-27 01:04 by GRNRBITW.

Great post Cocaine...we all get old, as the song says, and even Rolling Stones have to succumb to the mediocrity of life. But as you say, they will always be there when it matters. Those two are closer than brothers and have spent more time in each others company than the majority of brothers. The media and us fools on forums make more of the alleged schisms than exist in reality.

I'm not certain that it's a question/matter of mediocrity so much as it simply is the aging process. Perhaps we, the fans, still expect Jagger to crawl across the stage whipping it with his belt whilst singing "Midnight Rambler"! Sure, those days were exciting and utterly amazing.....but to steal a line from Mr. Watts, that might look a tad seemly at this time/age.

I'm a bit younger than the Stones (MJ & KR) and I certainly do NOT feel like creeping into a corner to die! I'm vital, happy, looking forward to each day with enthusiasm, etc. But.....I have changed. Perhaps we should allow the Rolling Stones to change as well?

I forgot to respond to Dreamer's comment about the 'whiners'. In my own humble opinion, I think that the so-called 'whiners' are very unhappy people in general. I actually feel badly for them. They must be living very unhappy and unfulfilled lives. So, they have a need to pass those cancer-spreading feelings along to the rest of us. WE, on the other hand, have the CHOICE to not join the whining crowd.

There.....philosophical ideas have run out. For now.

Dreamer, are you here? What say you?

Quote
Cocaine Eyes
I think that the so-called 'whiners' are very unhappy people in general.

you have no idea. we're absolutely miserable and our only recourse is to try to ruin things for others. i swear it's true.

Quote
crumbling_mice
Great post Cocaine...we all get old, as the song says, and even Rolling Stones have to succumb to the mediocrity of life. But as you say, they will always be there when it matters. Those two are closer than brothers and have spent more time in each others company than the majority of brothers. The media and us fools on forums make more of the alleged schisms than exist in reality.

I just re-read this post. Damn, that's good. Thanks kindly.

CE

Quote
frankotero
A very realistic and sobering post. While they are sounding pretty good there is still room for improvement. For instance what happened to four songs with Mick Taylor, now back to two. In my opinion they have the resources to make this an exceptional tour. What's stopping them? Maybe it's the "leave them wanting more" tactic? How much longer can they stretch it out? While I would enjoy seeing them perform for many more years to come I really think they should go all out right now.

Lately I have been thinking this will be the last time I will go see them, in Hyde Park no matter which way it goes. Because as Dreamer indicated above it's become too repetetive/boring. I feel if the die hard fans start to lose interest than the tourist will probably soon follow. After all where are they going to get the motivation? I believe it comes from people like us that have been carrying on for so long that attracts them.

Anyhow I too will always enjoy the music for what it's worth. George Harrison sang "All Things Must Pass" he was a smart guy.

Thanks for your input Frank!
I agree with you: at certain moments (San Jose, MR in LV, Staples2 with Sway & CYHMK) they 'sound pretty good with room for improvement'...I like the way you put it :-)
And Cocaine Eyes is right: MJ's singing is very good this tour!
So yes they have the resources to make it exceptional...so why put D&G and OMS between Sway and CYHMK????
And other choices they seem to refuse to make.

Like Cocaine Eyes I still enjoy being there and see the circus and meet everybody again and I enjoy their music. I will always keep playing their records because... they travelled with me all my life and I travelled with them on tour which was exceptional in itself. But I already liked them before that and after touring with them I still do. Always will. But the last two or three albums and all those shows are a different thing: I don't consume just everything my mouth, my eyes or my ears can get when I remember previous quality. I just wanna know what it is and how good it is for me and when I think it doesn't have the quality I'm used to...
Maybe I'm spoiled? Could very well be the case.

They have my respect for still playing, absolutely. I love 'em for that.
But I would really have a lot more when they would make the second half of this tour unbelievable by ditching all of those songs like SMU, BS, JJF, Satisfaction, HTW, TD, MY, GS, SFTD, H, BTMMR and D&G. And put Dead Flowers for at least half of those last 13 shows on the list together with NE, LIB, LWM, Bitch, ADTL, LIV, Sway, LARS, CYHMK and so on...or a similar list but without those SMU and the rest bs!
Now that would make ME give a bow!

Quote
crumbling_mice
Great post Cocaine...we all get old, as the song says, and even Rolling Stones have to succumb to the mediocrity of life. But as you say, they will always be there when it matters. Those two are closer than brothers and have spent more time in each others company than the majority of brothers. The media and us fools on forums make more of the alleged schisms than exist in reality.

Yes there is more on iorr about the schisms but...it's a fan thing so that doesn't bother me at all.
But some people have a little more knowledge about their reality; like Cocaine Eyes, she knows a lot. And some others on iorr.
I've been there too and I'm also interested in the subject because I see more ice on stage in this tour and that gives me some doubts about the near future...although my experiences in the past are not a guarantee for the future :-)
I hope and expect they will make something special out of the Hyde Park opportunity...

To those who haven't been there and done that...do it. The rest, cherish the memories!

Quote
Cocaine Eyes
I'm not certain that it's a question/matter of mediocrity so much as it simply is the aging process. Perhaps we, the fans, still expect Jagger to crawl across the stage whipping it with his belt whilst singing "Midnight Rambler"! Sure, those days were exciting and utterly amazing.....but to steal a line from Mr. Watts, that might look a tad seemly at this time/age.

I'm a bit younger than the Stones (MJ & KR) and I certainly do NOT feel like creeping into a corner to die! I'm vital, happy, looking forward to each day with enthusiasm, etc. But.....I have changed. Perhaps we should allow the Rolling Stones to change as well?

I forgot to respond to Dreamer's comment about the 'whiners'. In my own humble opinion, I think that the so-called 'whiners' are very unhappy people in general. I actually feel badly for them. They must be living very unhappy and unfulfilled lives. So, they have a need to pass those cancer-spreading feelings along to the rest of us. WE, on the other hand, have the CHOICE to not join the whining crowd.

There.....philosophical ideas have run out. For now.

Dreamer, are you here? What say you?

I would hate to see him do the belt thing again! Just as I hate him doing that crowd pleasing shite every night..."everybody say yeah!"
So in that respect it has nothing to do with age. But I agree that age makes lots of things different: more interesting for example! They could play more blues: alle the old blues guys played that music terefic at 70...

So in answer to you milady: perhaps the Stones should allow themselves to change...? Start with the choice of songs.
I will repeat:

"They have my respect for still playing, absolutely. I love 'em for that.
But I would really have a lot more when they would make the second half of this tour unbelievable by ditching all of those songs like SMU, BS, JJF, Satisfaction, HTW, TD, MY, GS, SFTD, H, BTMMR and D&G. And put Dead Flowers for at least half of those last 13 shows on the list together with NE, LIB, LWM, Bitch, ADTL, LIV, Sway, LARS, CYHMK and so on...or a similar list but without those SMU and the rest bs!
Now that would make ME give a bow!"

That would not be so difficult...

Now that we're on the topic of change - changing things up a bit - I'd LOVE to hear the following tunes in Toronto....LIVE:

Rocks Off
Sweet Virginia
Loving Cup
Torn And Frayed
No Expectations
Sway
Moonlight Mile
Little Queenie
Connection
Shine A Light
Love In Vain
Starf***er
Wild Horses
Silver Train
I've Got The Blues
Country Honk
Under My Thumb
Time Is On My Side (with someone classy like Sarah Dash)

My list is endless......for the die-hards.

Songs I could easily live without:

Miss You
Satisfaction
Brown Sugar
Doom & Gloom
One More Shot
You Got Me Rockin'
Emotional Rescue

Better stop now........



Ohhhhhhhhhhh, and who on earth is this Carrie Underwood person? Is that even her name?

Note to Stones: Just the Stones, please. These other people aren't needed nor are they in your league.

(Did I manage to post that without whining??)

Quote
GRNRBITW

Quote
stonesrule
That's why Kanye West will "Guest Star" when the Stones play NYC.

east meets west...it doesn't get any better!

Wait, when are the Stones playing NYC?

Quote
Cocaine Eyes
Now that we're on the topic of change - changing things up a bit - I'd LOVE to hear the following tunes in Toronto....LIVE:

Rocks Off
Sweet Virginia
Loving Cup
Torn And Frayed
No Expectations
Sway
Moonlight Mile
Little Queenie
Connection
Shine A Light
Love In Vain
Starf***er
Wild Horses
Silver Train
I've Got The Blues
Country Honk
Under My Thumb
Time Is On My Side (with someone classy like Sarah Dash)

My list is endless......for the die-hards.

Songs I could easily live without:

Miss You
Satisfaction
Brown Sugar
Doom & Gloom
One More Shot
You Got Me Rockin'
Emotional Rescue

Better stop now........



Ohhhhhhhhhhh, and who on earth is this Carrie Underwood person? Is that even her name?

Note to Stones: Just the Stones, please. These other people aren't needed nor are they in your league.

(Did I manage to post that without whining??)

Oh yes; you did post that totally without it! :-)
Interesting song selection you gave...I'll add my songs for a nice set list:

1 Starfocker
2 Live With Me
3 Sway
4 Can't You Hear Me Knocking
5 No Expectations
6 I've Got The Blues
7 Little Queenie
8 Like A Rolling Stone
9 Silver Train
10 Just My Imagination
11 Plundered My Soul

---Band Intro
12 Connection
13 Coming Down Again
14 Sister Morphine
15 The Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man
16 Crazy Mama
17 Loving Cup
18 Rocks Off
19 Midnight Rambler
---Band off stage

20 Time Is On My Side
21 Street Fighting Man
22 Satisfaction

Quote
Dreamer

Quote
Cocaine Eyes
Now that we're on the topic of change - changing things up a bit - I'd LOVE to hear the following tunes in Toronto....LIVE:

Rocks Off
Sweet Virginia
Loving Cup
Torn And Frayed
No Expectations
Sway
Moonlight Mile
Little Queenie
Connection
Shine A Light
Love In Vain
Starf***er
Wild Horses
Silver Train
I've Got The Blues
Country Honk
Under My Thumb
Time Is On My Side (with someone classy like Sarah Dash)

My list is endless......for the die-hards.

Songs I could easily live without:

Miss You
Satisfaction
Brown Sugar
Doom & Gloom
One More Shot
You Got Me Rockin'
Emotional Rescue

Better stop now........



Ohhhhhhhhhhh, and who on earth is this Carrie Underwood person? Is that even her name?

Note to Stones: Just the Stones, please. These other people aren't needed nor are they in your league.

(Did I manage to post that without whining??)

Oh yes; you did post that totally without it! :-)
Interesting song selection you gave...I'll add my songs for a nice set list:

1 Starfocker
2 Live With Me
3 Sway
4 Can't You Hear Me Knocking
5 No Expectations
6 I've Got The Blues
7 Little Queenie
8 Like A Rolling Stone
9 Silver Train
10 Just My Imagination
11 Plundered My Soul

---Band Intro
12 Connection
13 Coming Down Again
14 Sister Morphine
15 The Under Assistant West Coast Promo Man
16 Crazy Mama
17 Loving Cup
18 Rocks Off
19 Midnight Rambler
---Band off stage

20 Time Is On My Side
21 Street Fighting Man
22 Satisfaction

Great list as well! I'd pretty much kill to have Keith sing "Coming Down Again" but (I think) Keith has said that he'll never do that tune because it's far too personal. I'd also love to hear "Sister Morphine" and "Jigsaw Puzzle".

They really do have a wonderful catalogue from which to choose.

Here's how I see it all turning out. After 2013 is done and dusted, I think they'll do very small venues in very select cities doing songs just for the die-hards. Us!!

Oh, more Keith solos I'd almost kill to hear live:
Too Rude
Sleep Tonight

More later as I think of tunes I want to hear/see them do live.