Tell Me :
Talk
This song has uninspired playing, your crazy, Taylor is fantastic on this one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:39 by lapaz62.
Who, me? I didn't say that. I was referring to Mathijs' post. Although I find Taylor's playing on Dead Flowers pretty average for HIS standards
Let's take an average 1972 show. These are the main scales used:
Brown Sugar: verses + solo: C-PentatonicMinor, chorus: G-PentatonicMajor
Bitch: A-PentatonicMinor
Rocks Off: rhythm playing in A and B: A-pentMinor, licks in E-pentMajor
Gimme Shelter: chorus: C#-melodic minor, solo C#PentMinor
Happy: B-pentMajor, added A in his melody line making it BPentBlues
Tumbling Dice: B-PentMajor
Love in Vain: slide solo: G-PentBlues (PentMinor with added C#)
Sweet Virginia: A-PentMajor
YCAGWYW: mix between C-PentMinor, Major and Blues
ADTL: G-PentBlues (PentMinor with added C#)
MR: B-PentMajor
BBJ: B-PentMajor for most part, B-PentMinor when noodling
RTJ: finger slide riffs in B-PentMajor
JJF: B-PentMajor
SFM: main part B-PentMajor, solo at ending mix between C#-PentMinor, Major and Blues
Of course Taylor adds taste and melodic sense by borrowing notes from different scales, stepping outside the limits of each scale. But the scales mentioned above are always the basis for each track.
In the studio he would play pentatonic 95% off the time as well, with just a few exceptions like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
Please state where I trashed Taylor.
To sum it up for you again:
1. I think Taylor's guitar work on the Stones legal studio output is very limited. There's a couple nice/great solo's (Sway, CYHMR, Winter Time Waits), some uninspired solo's (Silver Train, Hide Your Love, If You Really Want TBMF), and I find him quite absent at best. He's not really present on Exile, and GHS and IORR will never become classic albums).
2. There’s more studio outtakes with great Taylor work available than legal stuff, with tracks like Hillside Blues and Travelin’ Man. Here I find Taylor fantastic.
3. Taylor official live work is limited to Ya-Ya’s, which just is utterly fantastic, and Brussels 1973, which is great in moments and bored in other.
4. I find his playing on the 1970 and 1971 tours annoying. I don’t like his tone, he’s overplaying, and it comes across to me as noodling. I hardly ever listen to these tours anymore.
5. 1972 was fantastic. Take any Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain or YCAGWYW solo and you can only listen in awe, even after more than 40 years.
6. 1973 was a mixed affair: on many shows the Stones sound bored and tired. Taylor overplays on many shows. However, some shows where also very good, and these very good shows might be the best ever shows given by any band. Taylor was fantastic on these shows, and are still a milestone to me in how to play classic lead guitar.
Mathijs
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic (jazz) scale contains a (F#), G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
Rubbish again: You're completely off the rails, from a harmonical point of view. A wiki site is not enough:
Then it's just an A diatonic Aeolian mode, which is part of the TWFNO-key.. A descending minor melodic scale never comes alone, neither in classical nor in jazz harmony, so minor melodic has nothing to do with it, as there is always a G# dim chord involved appearing on the guide tone of that scale, a basic harmonic rule. This is not the case in TWFNO. MT's improvisation is played over F(maj7) C (maj7), which proves it must be either a C ionian scale or F Lydian, as I pointed out earlier. It's called a chord scale. If I remember it well - I have to give it a listen, Taylor sometimes makes a G G# A slide, but if not, that's even more proove that I am right.
Actually any 15 year old music school pupil could tell you that.
Another one for free.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 18:12 by VT22.
hahaha, you know why those jazz cats never get any girls? Becasue all they do is argue about something that is just frigging the same thing. For Time Waits For No One, that has no dim or augmented chords, or first and second inversions of chords, but is just plain old Am, Dm, F and G, the scale Taylor plays is based on the Am/C major chord. There is no modal (and that equals boring) stuff going on. Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A. These notes are equal to the A diatonic Aeolian mode (you gave me that one!), equal to the C ionian scale, and are equal to the F Lydian scale (didn't think of that one. When I think of it I think of Yngwie Malmsteen, and he makes me puke).
Funniest thing though is -Taylor didn't have a clue about all these scales and modes, just as Richards didn't when he came up with the Paint It Black intro. Again, I bet Taylor was just fooling around with the A natural minor scale during his overdub session. Every guitarist knows that scale, and I bet he was just warming up to the track using this scale. It sounded good, it reminded him of his trip to Brazil, and there you go.
Mathijs
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: January 4, 2013 03:18
So what if a song's solo is pentatonic if it sounds good, would you rather listen to Marmsteen, Vai or Satriani playing modes all day long.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 4, 2013 06:07
If Taylor was as inconsequential as Mathijs claims, why is Ron Wood still trying (and not quite succeeding) to play Taylor's parts on songs like "All Down The Line" and "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" 40 years later? Seems to if "any other guitarist" could do it, he would have come up with his own stamp on those songs (which is EXACTLY what Taylor brought to Jones-era songs like "I'm Free"). Obviously Taylor's contributions should not be overstated, but I can't understand Mathijs' need to understate them at every opportunity.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: January 4, 2013 06:30
I'm not an expert on Taylor's style.
He seems to play off the chord tones a fair bit and the chord tones are also contained in the major pentatonic for example.
Chord tones mostly on the ON beats and scale notes between the chord tones mostly on the OFF beats.(can be minor/major pentatonic scales, major scales, minor scales, diminished etc)
This is how a lot of older Jazz players mostly played.
Having a chord tone approach means that melodies could probably be generated more easily than with someone just running up and down a pentatonic scale with hardly any reference to the chord tones.
It's not a case of melody verses pentatonics but more about what is emphasized in the pentatonics ie the chord tones.
It's not what you do, it's how you do it.
Mick sings pentatonics quite often, JJF, Gimme Shelter, mainly pentatonic vocal melodies.
[www.musicradar.com]
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 06:48 by howled.
He seems to play off the chord tones a fair bit and the chord tones are also contained in the major pentatonic for example.
Chord tones mostly on the ON beats and scale notes between the chord tones mostly on the OFF beats.(can be minor/major pentatonic scales, major scales, minor scales, diminished etc)
This is how a lot of older Jazz players mostly played.
Having a chord tone approach means that melodies could probably be generated more easily than with someone just running up and down a pentatonic scale with hardly any reference to the chord tones.
It's not a case of melody verses pentatonics but more about what is emphasized in the pentatonics ie the chord tones.
It's not what you do, it's how you do it.
Mick sings pentatonics quite often, JJF, Gimme Shelter, mainly pentatonic vocal melodies.
[www.musicradar.com]
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 06:48 by howled.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2013 10:13
I think there are a few misunderstandings here 
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:14 by DandelionPowderman.
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:14 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: January 4, 2013 10:22
Just what magic scale do you want him to play, scales are scales, if you know them you can play them, doesn't mean they sound any better. Maybe you should be just as critical of Richards, what is the most difficult chord he has ever played.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:25 by lapaz62.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:25 by lapaz62.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: January 4, 2013 10:38
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think there are a few misunderstandings here
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
This song has uninspired playing, your crazy, Taylor is fantastic on this one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 10:39 by lapaz62.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
howled
()
Date: January 4, 2013 11:33
Mick's got his country twang going in this one.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: January 4, 2013 11:41
Major, minor, pentatonic, chromatic, blues scales, whatever. The only way I judge the
guitar work is "does it rock me?"
More often than not what Mick Taylor or Ronnie Wood, Keith or Brian played rocks me.
If I like what I hear, I like to post about if.
If I don't like it, I'll omit it.
Posting about things I don't like makes me a bitter man. I don't want to bitter.
So here I'll post some bits I like and I don't give a damn what scales they're played in:
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
guitar work is "does it rock me?"
More often than not what Mick Taylor or Ronnie Wood, Keith or Brian played rocks me.
If I like what I hear, I like to post about if.
If I don't like it, I'll omit it.
Posting about things I don't like makes me a bitter man. I don't want to bitter.
So here I'll post some bits I like and I don't give a damn what scales they're played in:
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2013 11:50
Quote
lapaz62Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think there are a few misunderstandings here
- Yes, Taylor mainly sticks to the pentatonic scale, be it in major or minor, or he is mixing those in one solo, which is very common for any guitarist.
- The above is NOT a bad thing. My guess is that Mathijs was referring to Dead Flowers on L&G as an example of how this can be done in a rather uninspired way - to illustrate that Taylor's playing on the last Stones tours at times sounded as he was bored (something he has confirmed himself).
- Ronnie Wood has never "tried" to copy Taylor's solos. He pays homeage to Taylor, where the parts of his solos are essential to the songs (All Down The Line, CYHMK, Fingerprint File's bass etc). Other times, when the solos can be improved (there are a few), f.i. on If You Can't Rock Me, Happy, Tumblin' Dice and others - the solos are totally different. The "copying" is misunderstood.
- AND: If you have played guitar a few years, you'll find that it's not hard, not at all, to play what Taylor plays. However, it's very hard to play it as beautiful as he did when he was on top of his game (Ya Ya's: SCB, SFTD).
This song has uninspired playing, your crazy, Taylor is fantastic on this one.
Who, me? I didn't say that. I was referring to Mathijs' post. Although I find Taylor's playing on Dead Flowers pretty average for HIS standards
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 14:16
Maybe a nice and basic hint for rock/blues guitarists here: A major scale basically contains 3 pentatonic scales -import the blue notes if you want, and 7 chords. Major pentatonic scales are most effective/common when chord related, like in country music or blues. Sort this out if you haven't yet. You might notice a huge difference when listening to Taylor, Wood, or Jeff Beck etc then.
In the end music and playing the guitar is all about taste and fun of course, but reading these harmonically illiterate and stale posts coming from people like Mathijs and his musical lawyer- not on this thread only- makes me laugh, or cry if you want.
In the end music and playing the guitar is all about taste and fun of course, but reading these harmonically illiterate and stale posts coming from people like Mathijs and his musical lawyer- not on this thread only- makes me laugh, or cry if you want.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2013 14:35
Quote
VT22
Maybe a nice and basic hint for rock/blues guitarists here: A major scale basically contains 3 pentatonic scales -import the blue notes if you want, and 7 chords. Major pentatonic scales are most effective/common when chord related, like in country music orbluesfolk. Sort this out if you haven't yet. You might notice a huge difference when listening to Taylor, Wood, or Jeff Beck etc then.
In the end music and playing the guitar is all about taste and fun of course, but reading these harmonically illiterate and stale posts coming from people like Mathijs and his musical lawyer- not on this thread only- makes me laugh, or cry if you want.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 14:41
Listen to Robben Ford and Larry Carlton for example.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:00
Quote
Mathijs
Why aren't people allowed to have an opinion? You find Taylor a demigod, I find Taylor a decent guitarist in the studio, and a fantastic lead guitarist in 72/73. You find the Dead Flowers solo utterly great, while I find the first half having some nice country bends, and the second half annoying pentatonic noodling, the same as he did many times on Tumbling Dice and what made Keith shout 'stop @#$%& around' on L&G. You find it very difficult to play like Taylor, I find it quite easy as Taylor plays pentatonic scales 98% of the time, which doesn't require much technical abilities. Of course, Taylor has a fantastic melodic sense that not many guitarists/musicians have, and what made him unique with the Stones.
Mathijs
Quote
sanQ
I call bullshit on what you just said. Show me what pentatonic scale he's playing! I know the pentatonic scales and I can play them up and down the neck off by heart, behind my back, under my legs, and he's not playing it according to what you are saying. I would love for you to show me an example of your playing what you call easy Mick Taylor pentatonic scales. As someone who is honest and can actually play this, I would love to see you back up what you are saying! You can't because what you are saying is ridiculous and preposterous. You are seriously telling me that "He is playing pentatonic scales but he is also fantastically melodic." If he is playing so fantastically melodic, then he is not playing strictly in the pentatonic scale. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Let's take an average 1972 show. These are the main scales used:
Brown Sugar: verses + solo: C-PentatonicMinor, chorus: G-PentatonicMajor
Bitch: A-PentatonicMinor
Rocks Off: rhythm playing in A and B: A-pentMinor, licks in E-pentMajor
Gimme Shelter: chorus: C#-melodic minor, solo C#PentMinor
Happy: B-pentMajor, added A in his melody line making it BPentBlues
Tumbling Dice: B-PentMajor
Love in Vain: slide solo: G-PentBlues (PentMinor with added C#)
Sweet Virginia: A-PentMajor
YCAGWYW: mix between C-PentMinor, Major and Blues
ADTL: G-PentBlues (PentMinor with added C#)
MR: B-PentMajor
BBJ: B-PentMajor for most part, B-PentMinor when noodling
RTJ: finger slide riffs in B-PentMajor
JJF: B-PentMajor
SFM: main part B-PentMajor, solo at ending mix between C#-PentMinor, Major and Blues
Of course Taylor adds taste and melodic sense by borrowing notes from different scales, stepping outside the limits of each scale. But the scales mentioned above are always the basis for each track.
In the studio he would play pentatonic 95% off the time as well, with just a few exceptions like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:06
Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:17
Quote
DoomandGloom
Yes Mathijs is entitled to an opinion but trashing Taylor every time he's mentioned while claiming otherwise deserves a steady barrage
Please state where I trashed Taylor.
To sum it up for you again:
1. I think Taylor's guitar work on the Stones legal studio output is very limited. There's a couple nice/great solo's (Sway, CYHMR, Winter Time Waits), some uninspired solo's (Silver Train, Hide Your Love, If You Really Want TBMF), and I find him quite absent at best. He's not really present on Exile, and GHS and IORR will never become classic albums).
2. There’s more studio outtakes with great Taylor work available than legal stuff, with tracks like Hillside Blues and Travelin’ Man. Here I find Taylor fantastic.
3. Taylor official live work is limited to Ya-Ya’s, which just is utterly fantastic, and Brussels 1973, which is great in moments and bored in other.
4. I find his playing on the 1970 and 1971 tours annoying. I don’t like his tone, he’s overplaying, and it comes across to me as noodling. I hardly ever listen to these tours anymore.
5. 1972 was fantastic. Take any Gimme Shelter, Love in Vain or YCAGWYW solo and you can only listen in awe, even after more than 40 years.
6. 1973 was a mixed affair: on many shows the Stones sound bored and tired. Taylor overplays on many shows. However, some shows where also very good, and these very good shows might be the best ever shows given by any band. Taylor was fantastic on these shows, and are still a milestone to me in how to play classic lead guitar.
Mathijs
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:18
TWFNO should be standard chord-based maj/major with some borrowed notes.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:22
Quote
VT22Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 15:48
Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic (jazz) scale contains a (F#), G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 4, 2013 16:20
Quote
VT22Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 17:12
Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
Rubbish again: You're completely off the rails, from a harmonical point of view. A wiki site is not enough:
Then it's just an A diatonic Aeolian mode, which is part of the TWFNO-key.. A descending minor melodic scale never comes alone, neither in classical nor in jazz harmony, so minor melodic has nothing to do with it, as there is always a G# dim chord involved appearing on the guide tone of that scale, a basic harmonic rule. This is not the case in TWFNO. MT's improvisation is played over F(maj7) C (maj7), which proves it must be either a C ionian scale or F Lydian, as I pointed out earlier. It's called a chord scale. If I remember it well - I have to give it a listen, Taylor sometimes makes a G G# A slide, but if not, that's even more proove that I am right.
Actually any 15 year old music school pupil could tell you that.
Another one for free.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-04 18:12 by VT22.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: January 4, 2013 17:32
I like the soup scale:
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: January 4, 2013 18:02
Can I have a listen to Mathijs album, just want to see what he has been playing, oh and let me listen to Dandelions too, I tried to get them at Amazon but they said they were out of stock due to a high demand.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2013 19:41
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: January 4, 2013 19:54
I don't believe Mick Taylor's contributions are not "present" on Exile... He may only have a couple of solos but his rhythm and acoustic parts are unmistakable. Plus he plays bass on as many as four songs. If IORR or GHS came out tomorrow we'd be thrilled, you have to dig pretty deep to find fault in Taylor as a Stone. Assessing his work based on unbalanced bootlegs and outtakes has little relevance beyond curiosity. Duane Allman for example plays plenty of clams on unreleased stuff, this type of hindsight is very damaging to any artist. Picasso should not be judged by what he threw in the trash. Recording artists on their releases.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Loudei
()
Date: January 4, 2013 20:48
Mathijs
As much as I admire your musical expertise and your knowledge on Stones history I respect your stand on the Mick Taylor hype. I don't agree with you when you say the Stones are Watts/Jagger/Richards in the studio - what would "Waiting on Friend" be without Nicky Hopkins? I believe Bill Wyman was more important for the Stones than Mick Taylor and his chemistry with Charlie was so awesome. I think we all tend to forget that in Rock n Roll chemistry is more important than technical ability, Taylor made Richards a better rhythm guitarist and probably Jagger a better singer...Taylor sounded great with those horns too.... I also think you are wrong that he is missing from Exile - his brush strokes on that record are essential, he even has a song credit. I like the band better too from 1975 to 81 ... but not because of lead guitar players, but because of Keith charlie and Bill and that cool rhythm section. Mick Taylor was there man... give the fat guy a break . lol
As much as I admire your musical expertise and your knowledge on Stones history I respect your stand on the Mick Taylor hype. I don't agree with you when you say the Stones are Watts/Jagger/Richards in the studio - what would "Waiting on Friend" be without Nicky Hopkins? I believe Bill Wyman was more important for the Stones than Mick Taylor and his chemistry with Charlie was so awesome. I think we all tend to forget that in Rock n Roll chemistry is more important than technical ability, Taylor made Richards a better rhythm guitarist and probably Jagger a better singer...Taylor sounded great with those horns too.... I also think you are wrong that he is missing from Exile - his brush strokes on that record are essential, he even has a song credit. I like the band better too from 1975 to 81 ... but not because of lead guitar players, but because of Keith charlie and Bill and that cool rhythm section. Mick Taylor was there man... give the fat guy a break . lol
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: January 4, 2013 21:13
Quote
VT22Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
MathijsQuote
VT22Quote
Mathijs
....like Time Waits, which is A melodic minor (descending).
Mathijs
Rubbish.
O really? The solo even starts with a classic practice pattern on the second or fifth fret: B, C, D, E, F, G, A. I bet Taylor came up with the solo while rehearsing the A melodic minor scale over the track while overdubbing.
Mathijs
I'm sorry, an A minor melodic scale contains a G# (and a lowered third), rising and descending, used as a guide tone, mostly over 7ß5 - altered dom 7th chords, (altered brackets). MT's solo basically is played in C major or F Lydian / G mixolydian, and their 3 related pentatonic scales, if you want. However, Mick uses a G# a few times (and we are talking about a relatively long solo here), but in a completely different harmonic context than you are trying to point out. His solo is sublime though.
Now for the next answer I'm gonna charge you.
Nope, Taylor doesn't play a G# (nor a F#) anywhere, making it plain natural minor over A.
Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A.
Mathijs
Rubbish again: You're completely off the rails, from a harmonical point of view. A wiki site is not enough:
Then it's just an A diatonic Aeolian mode, which is part of the TWFNO-key.. A descending minor melodic scale never comes alone, neither in classical nor in jazz harmony, so minor melodic has nothing to do with it, as there is always a G# dim chord involved appearing on the guide tone of that scale, a basic harmonic rule. This is not the case in TWFNO. MT's improvisation is played over F(maj7) C (maj7), which proves it must be either a C ionian scale or F Lydian, as I pointed out earlier. It's called a chord scale. If I remember it well - I have to give it a listen, Taylor sometimes makes a G G# A slide, but if not, that's even more proove that I am right.
Actually any 15 year old music school pupil could tell you that.
Another one for free.
hahaha, you know why those jazz cats never get any girls? Becasue all they do is argue about something that is just frigging the same thing. For Time Waits For No One, that has no dim or augmented chords, or first and second inversions of chords, but is just plain old Am, Dm, F and G, the scale Taylor plays is based on the Am/C major chord. There is no modal (and that equals boring) stuff going on. Taylor plays the A Melodic Minor Scale using the Natural Minor scale descending notes: G, F, E, D, C, B, A. These notes are equal to the A diatonic Aeolian mode (you gave me that one!), equal to the C ionian scale, and are equal to the F Lydian scale (didn't think of that one. When I think of it I think of Yngwie Malmsteen, and he makes me puke).
Funniest thing though is -Taylor didn't have a clue about all these scales and modes, just as Richards didn't when he came up with the Paint It Black intro. Again, I bet Taylor was just fooling around with the A natural minor scale during his overdub session. Every guitarist knows that scale, and I bet he was just warming up to the track using this scale. It sounded good, it reminded him of his trip to Brazil, and there you go.
Mathijs
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
VT22
()
Date: January 4, 2013 21:17
-Syphilis afflicted several famous jazz musicians 
-You don't have to believe me of course, even worse, you don't understand a word that I try to explain to you, mix up everything.
-I do think MT was quite inspired, not many guitar players added so much feeling to a song by just basically using an ordinary C major scale.
-You don't have to believe me of course, even worse, you don't understand a word that I try to explain to you, mix up everything.
-I do think MT was quite inspired, not many guitar players added so much feeling to a song by just basically using an ordinary C major scale.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
lapaz62
()
Date: January 5, 2013 06:21
Its rock and roll for f**K sake, no need to be a musical genius, you want to talk theory, call up Paganini or Rachmaninoff, people that thrived on it. How many filthy rich musician can't even read music or ever needed to, show them the patterns and away they go. Hendrix talked in musical colours, not much theory there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 08:15 by lapaz62.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 08:15 by lapaz62.
Re: Waiting on a Friend with Mick Taylor...
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: January 5, 2013 06:46
Funniest thing though is -Taylor didn't have a clue about all these scales and modes. Yup that Mick Taylor is a dummy who knows nothing about modes
He also played with Soft Machine. BTW This is an amazing clip.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 06:48 by DoomandGloom.
He also played with Soft Machine. BTW This is an amazing clip.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-05 06:48 by DoomandGloom.
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