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Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: trainarollin ()
Date: October 12, 2012 08:24

Well, it was made official yesterday when I had 2 certified document examiners over to my place to inspect part of my collection. I was always suspect the the Keith book that was being sold through his website was a mechanical replicated autograph..This was about 2 years ago when Keith's website sent out a blast saying they have 50 Copies signed by the man himself.

After close inspection with high powered magnification, size, spacing, pen pressure, ink flow, etc..it was deemed an autopen signature.

Mine was done in blue ballpoint, a fairly small signature with the number 10 below it.

It only cost me the cover price and shipping, so it's not like I got ripped off, but let down. it was just misleading to drive traffic to their webstore. These situations make you think twice before ordering anything through the sites that claim are signed, etc.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: October 12, 2012 08:28

Wow...it seemed to good to be true. I remember seeing that ad on the KR website and being bummed I couldn't nab one. Sure does make you think twice about signed items coming from "official" sources. Thanks for the update!

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: October 12, 2012 08:31

Do those auto-pen things work with guitars?

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: RollingFreak ()
Date: October 12, 2012 09:08

Agreed thats too bad you got duped. Although at the very least you didn't get ripped off any money. So its as if you have the same book as everyone else, just with a fake signature cool smiley. So if anything, you still have more than everyone else for the same price. And if you ever actually meet Keith, maybe you can have him sign above the autopen thumbs up smiley.

But I agree, its too bad they that false advertise with that. Why get the hopes up of your biggest fans only to let them down?

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: GravityBoy ()
Date: October 12, 2012 10:16

Why couldn't he sit and sign 50 lousy books?

How long would that?

10 minutes?

I hate this pulling the wool over people's eyes.

I hate marketing.

Come the revolution...

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Date: October 12, 2012 11:55

Wow, that's diappointing, to hear. Is it true, how likely is it, that the examiners are mistaken? People should feel ripped off, if after all that fuss about the expensive Brussels deluxe boxsets and the official representators of the band claiming, it is no autopen, some examiner found out it is in fact autopen.

It would be absolutely understandable if after this chaos (Bravado: It's autopen, Stones: Wrong, it's no autopen, Bravado: Oh, our mistake, it's no autopen) and this Keith Richards "book affair" people will have their Brussels boxset signatures examined professionally (if somebody buys them for this price).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 22:53 by StrawberriesBlueberries.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: October 12, 2012 12:14

I was gonna ask how the hell this autocrap works....








And lots of other videos showing how it is done on the suggested videos which show up after the videos are done playing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-12 12:29 by Max'sKansasCity.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 12, 2012 13:12

...........i got one done with a bleedin' felt pen .... is that good or bad...?

ROCKMAN

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: GravityBoy ()
Date: October 12, 2012 13:14

It's autopenii I'm afraid of.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: October 12, 2012 13:36

The only way to prove it is people who have these signed copies can post a picture of it so we can compare and contrast.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: steini ()
Date: October 12, 2012 13:39

If you are sure(for me personaly i can´t see Richards agree on bullshit as not signing 50 books, common in all those concert through the years he has never tried to get away easy or on autopilot, of course his playing is better other nights and so on but mediocraty! i dont think so) But im NOT saying you are wrong, But i would contakt them and return the book and get money back just for the prinsip. No one may/should get away with false contract.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: open-g ()
Date: October 12, 2012 14:11

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
I was gonna ask how the hell this autocrap works....








And lots of other videos showing how it is done on the suggested videos which show up after the videos are done playing.

which one's the machine with Keith in it? smiling bouncing smiley

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 12, 2012 16:08

Quote
open-g
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
I was gonna ask how the hell this autocrap works....








And lots of other videos showing how it is done on the suggested videos which show up after the videos are done playing.

which one's the machine with Keith in it? smiling bouncing smiley

The one with the arthritic grip.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Send It To me ()
Date: October 12, 2012 16:59

He has arthritis.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: trainarollin ()
Date: October 12, 2012 19:09

I will try to post a photo later today. Seems there were 5 Autopen matrix patterns used by the publisher.

What's bothersome is that someone unsupervised can easily place photos, LP covers, etc under the robotic arm and later attempt to pass them off as the real deal.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: letitloose ()
Date: October 12, 2012 20:40

Quote
71Tele
Do those auto-pen things work with guitars?

haha, that's great.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: trainarollin ()
Date: October 12, 2012 21:41

There are machines that can be adjusted to sign non-flat items such as baseballs, so I imaginge it could be done. I've seen some people selling guitars with a Springsteen signature laser engraved into the body.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: paulm ()
Date: October 12, 2012 22:05

I'm not surprised by these accounts. Are you?

I read an account once of a guy asking Keith to sign his Tele, on the streets of NYC. Keith and bodyguard ducked into their taxi/limo and drove off with dude's guitar. I don't know where I read this, but I don't doubt it. These guys are ruthless conquerors of the rock world. Show your true colors guys!

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: October 12, 2012 22:10

Quote
paulm
I'm not surprised by these accounts. Are you?

I read an account once of a guy asking Keith to sign his Tele, on the streets of NYC. Keith and bodyguard ducked into their taxi/limo and drove off with dude's guitar. I don't know where I read this, but I don't doubt it. These guys are ruthless conquerors of the rock world. Show your true colors guys!

If you're going to be a Debbie Downer all over the board...at least get the story right.

A fan had a guitar he wanted Keith to sign. As Keith walked past, the fan stuck the guitar out and Keith and/or his bodyguards grabbed the guitar and took it with them inside their car. The fan chased after the car screaming that he wanted his guitar back...at a red light, the window rolled down and Keith was laughing because he thought the fan was GIVING him the guitar. Keith was happy to return the guitar back.

A little less dramatic than your version of the story, eh?

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Rolling Hansie ()
Date: October 12, 2012 22:41

Quote
trainarollin
Seems there were 5 Autopen matrix patterns used by the publisher.

All this to sign 50 copies ???

Keep On Rolling smoking smiley

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: lunar!!! ()
Date: October 12, 2012 22:43

..had a book signed in person by Bob Hope in 1998 when he was 95 years old, in a wheelchair, and blind....he attended the booksigning at the Nixon library all day in hot sun....if he can do it, why can't Richards?....B*&^%$%#@T!

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: lunar!!! ()
Date: October 12, 2012 22:44

Quote
Send It To me
He has arthritis.

see above....

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: October 12, 2012 23:27

I never understood autographs anyway... who cares? Why?

I have asked many times and I have never heard of one good reason why autographs are cool. I sometimes hang out with somewhat famous people and their more famous friends (of course I dont drop their names like some around here) and never in a million years would I ask one of them or their famous friends for an autograph when we are just hanging around... why would I? Why would anyone?... what would it mean? who cares? Do people do that so they can show it to someone? and then?... so what?... it is probably fake (they think) but even if it is real... who cares?... it means what? That someone mooched someone famous to sign their name... and that means what? Tell me what I am missing and maybe I will start collecting them like albums and posters and shirts (which imuho are artwork themselves... to be held, worn, framed, hung and admired)

I do understand this company and their invention... it makes sense in this day and age of marketing that this company wants its mailers to appear personal... and hand written might do that. "Hand written" might get that unsolicited marketing letter opened by 3 out of a 1000 versus only 2 of a 1000...... but as far as a signed book... who cares? Why is that cool? Please understand I am not bashing on the OP, I asppreciate the shared story, I amjust asking... why are autographs cool?

I can only think of a one example, and that would be when an artist signs their painting (or another one of a kind type of artwork) as a time when I would want someone to sign something.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: October 12, 2012 23:30

Quote
lunar!!!
..had a book signed in person by Bob Hope in 1998 when he was 95 years old, in a wheelchair, and blind....he attended the booksigning at the Nixon library all day in hot sun....if he can do it, why can't Richards?....B*&^%$%#@T!

Keith DID do booksignings where he signed hundreds of books - in New York and London.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: paulm ()
Date: October 13, 2012 00:02

Quote
Justin
If you're going to be a Debbie Downer all over the board...at least get the story right.
Mensch, avoid name calling. Others may not detect it, but I'm keyed in to its insidious agenda.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 13, 2012 00:22

It would be stupid in 2012 that autographed devices make signature that all looks the same, technically it´s easy to make one that make little differences in signatures.


Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Max'sKansasCity ()
Date: October 13, 2012 00:36

Quote
NICOS
It would be stupid in 2012 that autographed devices make signature that all looks the same, technically it´s easy to make one that make little differences in signatures.
Great point... It would seem that is would be easy to vary it all slightly from signing to signing... vary the size, vary the spacing, very the pen pressure, very the ink flow... why not?

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Halup ()
Date: October 13, 2012 01:06

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
I never understood autographs anyway... who cares? Why?

I have asked many times and I have never heard of one good reason why autographs are cool. I sometimes hang out with somewhat famous people and their more famous friends (of course I dont drop their names like some around here) and never in a million years would I ask one of them or their famous friends for an autograph when we are just hanging around... why would I? Why would anyone?... what would it mean? who cares? Do people do that so they can show it to someone? and then?... so what?... it is probably fake (they think) but even if it is real... who cares?... it means what? That someone mooched someone famous to sign their name... and that means what? Tell me what I am missing and maybe I will start collecting them like albums and posters and shirts (which imuho are artwork themselves... to be held, worn, framed, hung and admired)

I can only think of a one example, and that would be when an artist signs their painting (or another one of a kind type of artwork) as a time when I would want someone to sign something.

One key to understanding is in your last sentence. You say that you would want a painting when an artist is signing it. If you expand the idea of an artist being more than painters and use it to refer to musicians, writers, actors or anyone who works in the arts as being an artist, there you go.

A painter can sign the visual thing they created, but as a musician creates sound, how can they sign that? The closest thing they can do is sign the cover of a record which is the visual representation of the art that they created (the music contained within), and as you admitted, are already artwork in themselves. By having a musician sign the LP, it essentially creates an exhanced version of their album and a much more rare and unique looking item.

Most of us here on this site collect all sorts of variations on Stones albums and memorabilia and from many other artists. We already have the collector mentality. Some people want many different copies of the same album in teir collection, including pressings from around the world, even though they are essentially the same. By having an autographed copy of an album, you are now owning an even more rare and exclusive copy of it. For some people, having copies of the same album with different catalog numbers feeds into their desire to collect and that's good enough for them. For others, they like to have a copy of an artists work signed by the artist in their collection. I don't think one is right and one is wrong. They both are silly and cool in their own ways.

I have a huge amount of autographed items in my collection, almost all of which I have obtained in person. Is it a silly hobby? Sure, it's crazy, but as a big music and film lover, I've been able to meet so many people I never would have dreamed I would otherwise have met. To be able to meet a person like Keith Richards and have a chance to say a few words to him and have an autograph as a lasting moment of these encounters is great and it makes my record collection more unique.

I guess the answer is that an autograph can mean different things to different people. Some like it for the visual enhancement of an item that they can put up on the wall, the same way someone would put up a signed painting. For others it is a simple momento from an encounter with someone whose work they like.

I can fully understand that if you are hanging out with famous people, where you wouldn't have a desire to have them autograph something for you. Even if you wanted it, it would be awkward to ask.

I find it interesting when famous people collect autographs. Johnny Ramone was a big collector of memorabilia and would write to musicians and actors for their autograph. Kirk Hammett of Metallica waited in line at an autograph show in L.A. to have Don knotts sign his Mr Limpitt movie psoter. Paul McCartney, when he performed at the Bridge School concert in 2004, went from dressing room to dressing room to have all of the artists on the bill sign his poster for the concert.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-13 01:09 by Halup.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: Justin ()
Date: October 13, 2012 01:15

Quote
Halup
Kirk Hammett of Metallica waited in line at an autograph show in L.A. to have Don knotts sign his Mr Limpitt movie psoter.

That is awesome. Were you there to see it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-13 01:16 by Justin.

Re: Keith Richards web sold Books were 100% Autopen signed.
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 13, 2012 01:21

Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Quote
NICOS
It would be stupid in 2012 that autographed devices make signature that all looks the same, technically it´s easy to make one that make little differences in signatures.
Great point... It would seem that is would be easy to vary it all slightly from signing to signing... vary the size, vary the spacing, very the pen pressure, very the ink flow... why not?


What Lurks In Handwriting



I worked in applied acoustics for a number of years, and this idea occurred to me one day while driving home. I don't believe that it is particularly practical, unless there were some special conditions, but it might be the basis for a good story.

The thought is this: when you write with a pen or pencil on paper, that writing device is acting like a microphone, picking up vibrations in the air, and recording them in the trace left on the paper. This, after all, is the principle by which the phonograph worked. The problem of course is that the trace is very faint, and the signal (the words you actually are writing) is all over the place when examined under a microscope.

A pen held in a hand while writing (with no acoustic signal present) probably has a fairly simple dynamics. As it moves over the paper, the unevenness of the paper will cause some deviation from a completely straight edge. Adding an acoustic signal should cause further deviations from the intended path of the pen. (If I make a 1/4 inch pen stroke, it seems to take about 1/10 of a second; for a 1000 Hz sine wave signal, this would mean 100 peaks, with each peak having a separation of .0025 inches - this seems like a reasonable trace to detect.) Modeling what the pen would do due to the irregular surface of the paper, and measuring what it actually did in order to find the difference due to the acoustic influence might still be quite hard.

But if it worked! Imagine listening to the room during the moment John Hancock signed the Declaration of Independence. Or any of a number of other historical events that took place when someone was writing.

Could it work? The acoustic energy is low, but it is there. The problem is in the analysis. One would have to build a mathematical model of the pen used, the ink, and even the paper (the threads of which would cause natural oscillations). Then, this model would be used to identify the parts of the writing (the edges) which were unexpected - these would be where acoustic information was.

While this seems almost impossible, and it might be, I would expect that the mathematical model for a hand holding a pen, moving over a known but rough surface, might be pretty simple - containing a few parameters no doubt, but the basic spring-like nature of the problem, the relatively simple abstraction of a pen (described by several moments of inertia), might be basic. It also might be such that all of these parameters could be learned by examining the entirety of the writing, either statistically or in detail.

Stepping back, while I'm not sure we could use this technique to hear the voice of George Washington or Napoleon, it might be used to verify that a particular document was written in a particular environment. Did Lincoln write the Gettysburg Address while on the train? I think that's a myth, but if it weren't, I expect it could be tested - the vibrations on trains, especially of his time, were sufficiently large to leave traces detectable to the human eye (as I've verified on Amtrak frequently).

(First idea: 1988; on this web page, December 16, 2002)

By the way this article is not by me ...just downloaded from the INet





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-13 01:32 by NICOS.

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