Tell Me :
Talk
I think the most expendable song on Let It Bleed - and again it's blasphemy to suggest - is Country Honk. It's a re-tread of an already released song so why do it in the first place? Loving Cup would have fitted in beautifully after Love In Vain. But how much stronger do you want Let It Bleed to be?
The killer songs of steel, as Doxa so rightly suggests - bookend both sides of the original album and the other songs give it lightness and air to breathe such as Love In Vain, You Got The Silver and Country Honk. They lighten the general darkness. But there's no point in tinkering with one of the greatest albums of all time. It's perfect already.
hahaha! I know my choice of words was a bit provocative... there are fillers and 'fillers' (and I guess you get my point..
)
- Doxa
"Country Honk" is probably the oddest choice in LET IT BLEED, but there seems to be some kind of good reason - a musical statement - why they want it include it there. A bit like "Dear Doctor" in BEGGARS BANQUET - to give musical variance, and, to a great deal, humor (the latter seemed to go hand in hand with country music still then, no matter how much mr. Parsons was already educating Keith...)
But I think replacing it by 'stronger' or more 'serious'cut like "Loving Cup" would have changed the tone of the album rather much. Better or worse, don't know, but more 'deeper' it had been. All I can quess is that was not the artistic idea Mick and Keith (and Miller) had in their mind. To go not too deep. But I admit the suggestion you make sounds good.
Funnily I can't think of "Loving Cup" fitting to STICKY FINGERS at all.
- Doxa
Definitely not. Sticky Fingers had a real gravitas to it. Even Dead Flowers, the uptempo happy song, dealt with nasty subject matter.
But but, Mick Taylor wasn't even playing in half of it!
- Doxa
Being serious...
To give the album a more unified sound they maybe should have had Taylor overdub on to tracks which were already nearly completed and/or re-recorded tracks that didn't feature him... Excepting Gimme Shelter perhaps.
As it is, the great and crap song writing on Let It Bleed and the lack of a definite 3rd man makes it sound and feel odd.
Given the talent and ability they had in 1969, Let It Bleed as an album is strangley weak imo, the weakest album of the so called big four studio albums.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:28 by His Majesty.
But the sound is good as it is, and the few things Taylor does on the album doesn't alter that?
Would you care to elaborate what you find crappy about Let It Bleed, especially when it comes to song writing?
IMO, it's probably the better of the so called big four sonically, song writing-wise and regarding how it is performed.
I regard LIB a one man guitar-show, just as good as BB...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:32 by DandelionPowderman.
I don't do smileys normally, but this?
Gimme shelter: great
Love in Vain: great
Country Honk: alright, not as great as Honky Tonk Women
Live with me: great
Let it bleed: listen to Stu on piano, listen to Charlie, hell it's even got Bill on autoharp, so: great
Midnight rambler: great
You got the silver: first solo song by Keith, only this aspect makes it great
Monkey Man: great with capitals
You can't always get what you want, nothing but great.
So maybe about 11 % not so great, but otherwise nothing but greatness!
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
What a GREAT post!
The execution is scheduled for midnight tonight
What's NOT great with You Got The Silver, Love In Vain and Midnight Rambler beats me
One could, but I would certainly not agree regarding Love In Vain!
MR sort of found it's shape on stage, and might have been recorded a tad too slow in the studio. Still, the creepy feeling of the studio version was never re-created on stage - so it's apples and oranges.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
René
()
Date: October 8, 2012 11:00
Comments, input and alterations are very welcome!
________________________________________________________________________________
Loving Cup
(Mick Jagger / Keith Richards)
Sunset Sound Studios, Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, US,
December 4 - 19, 1971 & January - March 1972 and
Wally Heider Studios, Los Angeles, California, US, March 24 & 25, 1972
Mick Jagger - lead vocals, backing vocals
Keith Richards - acoustic guitar, electric guitar,
harmony vocals, backing vocals
Charlie Watts - drums
Bill Wyman - bass
Nicky Hopkins - piano
Bobby Keys - saxophone
Jim Price - trumpet, trombone
Jimmy Miller - percussion
I'm the man on the mountain, come on up
I'm the plowman in the valley with a face full of mud
Yes, I'm fumbling and I know my car don't start
Yes, I'm stumbling and I know I play a bad guitar
Give me little drink from your loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk
I'm the man who walks the hillside in the sweet summer sun
I'm the man that brings you roses when you ain't got none
Well, I can run and jump and fish, but I won't fight
You, if you want to push and pull with me all night
Give me little drink from you loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk, yeah
I feel so humble with you tonight, just sitting in front of the fire
See your face dancing in the flame, feel your mouth kissing me again
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
What a beautiful buzz, oh, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
Yes, I am nitty gritty and my shirt's all torn
But I would love to spill the beans with you till dawn
Give me little drink from you loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk
Give me little drink, give me little drink, give me little drink…
Produced by Jimmy Miller
First released on:
The Rolling Stones - “Exile On Main Street” 2LP
(Rolling Stones Records COC 69100) UK, May 12, 1972
________________________________________________________________________________
Loving Cup (alternate take)
(Mick Jagger / Keith Richards)
Olympic Sound Studios, London, UK, April 17 - July 2, 1969
Mick Jagger - lead vocals
Keith Richards - electric guitar, harmony vocals
Charlie Watts - drums
Bill Wyman - bass
Mick Taylor - electric guitar
Nicky Hopkins - piano
I'm the man on the mountain, yes, come on up, come on up
I’ll be the plowman in the valleys with a face full of mud, with a face full of mud
Yes, I am stumbling and I know my car won't start
Yes, I am fumbling and I know I play a bad guitar
Ah, but I just wanna drink from your loving cup
Ah, just one drink and I'll fall down drunk, yeah
I'm the man who walks the hillsides in the sweet summer sun, yeah
I'm the man who brings you roses when you ain't got none, nothin’
Well, I can run and jump and fish, but I won't fight
You, if you want to, push and pull with me all night
Ah, give me little drink from your loving cup
Ah, just one drink, what a beautiful buzz
I feel so very humble with you tonight, just sitting in front of the fire
I see your face dancing in the flame, I feel your mouth kissing me again
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
Ooh, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz, yeah
Yes, I am dirty, smelly and my shirt's all torn
But I would love to push and pull with you past dawn
Give me little drink from your loving cup
Give me little drink and I'll fall down drunk
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup...
Produced by Jimmy Miller
First released on:
The Rolling Stones - “Exile On Main Street” 2CD
(Universal 273 429-5) UK, May 14, 2010
see [www.iorr.org]
________________________________________________________________________________
Loving Cup
(Mick Jagger / Keith Richards)
Sunset Sound Studios, Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, US,
December 4 - 19, 1971 & January - March 1972 and
Wally Heider Studios, Los Angeles, California, US, March 24 & 25, 1972
Mick Jagger - lead vocals, backing vocals
Keith Richards - acoustic guitar, electric guitar,
harmony vocals, backing vocals
Charlie Watts - drums
Bill Wyman - bass
Nicky Hopkins - piano
Bobby Keys - saxophone
Jim Price - trumpet, trombone
Jimmy Miller - percussion
I'm the man on the mountain, come on up
I'm the plowman in the valley with a face full of mud
Yes, I'm fumbling and I know my car don't start
Yes, I'm stumbling and I know I play a bad guitar
Give me little drink from your loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk
I'm the man who walks the hillside in the sweet summer sun
I'm the man that brings you roses when you ain't got none
Well, I can run and jump and fish, but I won't fight
You, if you want to push and pull with me all night
Give me little drink from you loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk, yeah
I feel so humble with you tonight, just sitting in front of the fire
See your face dancing in the flame, feel your mouth kissing me again
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
What a beautiful buzz, oh, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
Yes, I am nitty gritty and my shirt's all torn
But I would love to spill the beans with you till dawn
Give me little drink from you loving cup
Just one drink and I'll fall down drunk
Give me little drink, give me little drink, give me little drink…
Produced by Jimmy Miller
First released on:
The Rolling Stones - “Exile On Main Street” 2LP
(Rolling Stones Records COC 69100) UK, May 12, 1972
________________________________________________________________________________
Loving Cup (alternate take)
(Mick Jagger / Keith Richards)
Olympic Sound Studios, London, UK, April 17 - July 2, 1969
Mick Jagger - lead vocals
Keith Richards - electric guitar, harmony vocals
Charlie Watts - drums
Bill Wyman - bass
Mick Taylor - electric guitar
Nicky Hopkins - piano
I'm the man on the mountain, yes, come on up, come on up
I’ll be the plowman in the valleys with a face full of mud, with a face full of mud
Yes, I am stumbling and I know my car won't start
Yes, I am fumbling and I know I play a bad guitar
Ah, but I just wanna drink from your loving cup
Ah, just one drink and I'll fall down drunk, yeah
I'm the man who walks the hillsides in the sweet summer sun, yeah
I'm the man who brings you roses when you ain't got none, nothin’
Well, I can run and jump and fish, but I won't fight
You, if you want to, push and pull with me all night
Ah, give me little drink from your loving cup
Ah, just one drink, what a beautiful buzz
I feel so very humble with you tonight, just sitting in front of the fire
I see your face dancing in the flame, I feel your mouth kissing me again
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
What a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz
Ooh, what a beautiful buzz, what a beautiful buzz, yeah
Yes, I am dirty, smelly and my shirt's all torn
But I would love to push and pull with you past dawn
Give me little drink from your loving cup
Give me little drink and I'll fall down drunk
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup
Just give me little drink from your loving cup...
Produced by Jimmy Miller
First released on:
The Rolling Stones - “Exile On Main Street” 2CD
(Universal 273 429-5) UK, May 14, 2010
see [www.iorr.org]
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: October 8, 2012 11:07
That's a nice one...
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: October 8, 2012 11:15
An absolute killer cut - one of the defining moments on Exile On Main Street. The Stones songwriting never sounded sweeter and so in harmony. It's not only a joy to hear but a really wonderful song to play on guitar too.
I'm not sure what inspired the song but because of its bucolic feel I'd say it must have been written in 69 after Mick moved into the countryside at Stargroves. Those lines like "I'm a ploughman in the valley with a face full of mud" and "I'm the man who walks the hillside in the sweet summer sun" just put a smile on my face everytime I hear them. They're so far removed from the lyrical urban angst the Stones were renowned for. When the album came out I was busy swatting up for school exams and for English Literature I had to learn about Thomas Gray's epic poem Elegy In A Country Churchyard. In it there's a line "The ploughman homeward plods his weary way" as well as a general feeling of rustic rumination and I always thought Jagger had been inspired by it. It was around this time that he read Shelley's Adonis eulogy for Brian at Hyde Park so he certainly knew his English poets.
The track also perfectly closes the reflective country songs on side 2 of the original album and leaves the listener on a high with the heartening refrain of "what a beautiful buzz" over and over again before the final play of "love to spill the beans with you till dawn". The song has 'happy' written all over which is pretty clever as the next song is.....well that's another story.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 11:49 by Silver Dagger.
I'm not sure what inspired the song but because of its bucolic feel I'd say it must have been written in 69 after Mick moved into the countryside at Stargroves. Those lines like "I'm a ploughman in the valley with a face full of mud" and "I'm the man who walks the hillside in the sweet summer sun" just put a smile on my face everytime I hear them. They're so far removed from the lyrical urban angst the Stones were renowned for. When the album came out I was busy swatting up for school exams and for English Literature I had to learn about Thomas Gray's epic poem Elegy In A Country Churchyard. In it there's a line "The ploughman homeward plods his weary way" as well as a general feeling of rustic rumination and I always thought Jagger had been inspired by it. It was around this time that he read Shelley's Adonis eulogy for Brian at Hyde Park so he certainly knew his English poets.
The track also perfectly closes the reflective country songs on side 2 of the original album and leaves the listener on a high with the heartening refrain of "what a beautiful buzz" over and over again before the final play of "love to spill the beans with you till dawn". The song has 'happy' written all over which is pretty clever as the next song is.....well that's another story.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 11:49 by Silver Dagger.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
drewmaster
()
Date: October 8, 2012 11:49
Perhaps the most beautiful and majestic song the Stones have ever recorded, Loving Cup is the beating heart at the core of Exile, and arguably the crowning achievement of the Stones at the height of their powers. It is a stunning tribute to the redemptive power of love … to heal and renew, no matter how deep the hurt, how profound the pain. It soars and it shines, its enveloping warmth magically unfolding until the listener is transformed and made whole again. Although every note on this track shimmers and sparkles, it is of course Nicky Hopkins’ glorious piano-work that catapults this one into the stratosphere.
What a beautiful buzz … yes indeed.
Drew
What a beautiful buzz … yes indeed.
Drew
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 8, 2012 11:55
EXILE ON MAIN STREET is one of those albums that I usually listen from start to finish - so picking up individual songs, and saying something of them, is rather unusual to me. It is the whole capturing atmosphere, the feeling in the album that it is bigger than the sum of its parts. It is also for that reason that I don't listen the album so often; it is so demanding, almost haunting experience to listen to, so that it needs some concentration, a right mood so to say. It is no muzak.
So when I know think of "Loving Cup", I immediatily feel the whole thick atmosphere of the side B (yes, it is the vinyl version we speak here). It is rather difficiult to separete the track from that, and to see how it manages by its own. Of course, it manages well (as any EXILE track does).
In a way it is a typical EXILE track - the production and mix is an odd, almost chaotic mess, and some of the decisions are really 'challenging', that is, not the most ear pleasing in outset (especially taken out of context). But there is depthness in every inch of it, and the musical performance by everyone inlvolved is simply inspired. The song itself is one of their best crafted ever, and its years spent in process of creating and marinating can be haerd in final version. So damn mature and delicate. Each sound.
But I need to say I also love the 'drunken version', released officially in EXILE Bonus album, as well. There one can hear the greatness of the song itself, plus Mick's honey-like but raw 1969 voice in its full glory, and Keith's unique "Honky Tonk Woman" guitar sound, making it a LET IT BLEED era masterpiece as well (it is funny to compare how much the band sound changed in two yaers). For reason or other it didn't made the album at the time (there were so many great ones?!), even though played live in Hyde Park (which shows the band had high hopes for the song). In a way the 'drunken' version is easier to listen to, since it doesn't contain the chaotic EXILE treatment; it is still more 'naked', and its distinguished features more easily recognizable. (The same argument can go to "Shine A Light" as well).
So summa summarum, what can I say? The Stones in the very height of their creativity. A masterful song.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:04 by Doxa.
So when I know think of "Loving Cup", I immediatily feel the whole thick atmosphere of the side B (yes, it is the vinyl version we speak here). It is rather difficiult to separete the track from that, and to see how it manages by its own. Of course, it manages well (as any EXILE track does).
In a way it is a typical EXILE track - the production and mix is an odd, almost chaotic mess, and some of the decisions are really 'challenging', that is, not the most ear pleasing in outset (especially taken out of context). But there is depthness in every inch of it, and the musical performance by everyone inlvolved is simply inspired. The song itself is one of their best crafted ever, and its years spent in process of creating and marinating can be haerd in final version. So damn mature and delicate. Each sound.
But I need to say I also love the 'drunken version', released officially in EXILE Bonus album, as well. There one can hear the greatness of the song itself, plus Mick's honey-like but raw 1969 voice in its full glory, and Keith's unique "Honky Tonk Woman" guitar sound, making it a LET IT BLEED era masterpiece as well (it is funny to compare how much the band sound changed in two yaers). For reason or other it didn't made the album at the time (there were so many great ones?!), even though played live in Hyde Park (which shows the band had high hopes for the song). In a way the 'drunken' version is easier to listen to, since it doesn't contain the chaotic EXILE treatment; it is still more 'naked', and its distinguished features more easily recognizable. (The same argument can go to "Shine A Light" as well).
So summa summarum, what can I say? The Stones in the very height of their creativity. A masterful song.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:04 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: October 8, 2012 12:16
Funny how they dared to play it live in 1969, before anyone heard it. Last time they
ever played a song of their own on stage before it was published on record would be
Worried about you at the famous El Macombo gig? Or was it Oh no, not you again at the
Julliard school?
We have to thank Chuck for bringing this song back on stage during the Licks-tour.
I like the piano-opening by Nicky on the Exile album. The outtake on the deluxe-album
is interesting, but not really groving me.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
ever played a song of their own on stage before it was published on record would be
Worried about you at the famous El Macombo gig? Or was it Oh no, not you again at the
Julliard school?
We have to thank Chuck for bringing this song back on stage during the Licks-tour.
I like the piano-opening by Nicky on the Exile album. The outtake on the deluxe-album
is interesting, but not really groving me.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: October 8, 2012 12:19
A glorious explosion of hybrid hippie gospel rock. The beautiful church revival piano at the beginning like sun filtered through stained glass church windows. Flecks of dust dancing and swaying along the beams of light with Mick and Keith's harmonies lilting towards the heavens. The gentle acoustic picking until Charlie kicks the revival into full spiritual force. You can imagine outstretched choir hands clapping and shaking tambourines. Plows, farms, smoke drifting from cooking pots, a lazy friend sleeping with his fishing pole. The Stones, white English boys take a trip to the Appalachians, creating beauty and light. I wanna pick a long straw of wheat and chew on it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:20 by whitem8.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:20 by whitem8.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: October 8, 2012 12:24
An early prototype.
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 8, 2012 12:27
A quick passing theory to the question I proposed above, why "Loving Cup" did not make LET IT BLEED.
There were so many 'big songs' (incl. longetivity, atmopshere, story) to choose from to make a single album reasonable. They took "Gimme Shelter", "Let It Bleed", "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and put them to starting and finishing the sides. The rest songs were filling the sides with 'easier' songs to make the sides more breathing and easier to attach (and also giving enough room for the big ones to shine). "Loving Cup" was not such a 'filler'. I would think that the decision would have been most with it and "Let It Bleed", and I could easily see how "Loving Cup" could have fitted into that place in the album (a closer of A-side). But seemingly they invested more in "Let It Bleed", making it even album's title. But they originally planned to call it STICKY FINGERS...
(edit: now when I listened to that clip of Hyde Park version, I observed that there Mick introduces the song by saying that it will be released in their next album...)
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:34 by Doxa.
There were so many 'big songs' (incl. longetivity, atmopshere, story) to choose from to make a single album reasonable. They took "Gimme Shelter", "Let It Bleed", "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and put them to starting and finishing the sides. The rest songs were filling the sides with 'easier' songs to make the sides more breathing and easier to attach (and also giving enough room for the big ones to shine). "Loving Cup" was not such a 'filler'. I would think that the decision would have been most with it and "Let It Bleed", and I could easily see how "Loving Cup" could have fitted into that place in the album (a closer of A-side). But seemingly they invested more in "Let It Bleed", making it even album's title. But they originally planned to call it STICKY FINGERS...
(edit: now when I listened to that clip of Hyde Park version, I observed that there Mick introduces the song by saying that it will be released in their next album...)
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 12:34 by Doxa.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 8, 2012 12:56
Quote
Doxa
A quick passing theory to the question I proposed above, why "Loving Cup" did not make LET IT BLEED.
There were so many 'big songs' (incl. longetivity, atmopshere, story) to choose from to make a single album reasonable. They took "Gimme Shelter", "Let It Bleed", "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and put them to starting and finishing the sides. The rest songs were filling the sides with 'easier' songs to make the sides more breathing and easier to attach (and also giving enough room for the big ones to shine). "Loving Cup" was not such a 'filler'. I would think that the decision would have been most with it and "Let It Bleed", and I could easily see how "Loving Cup" could have fitted into that place in the album (a closer of A-side). But seemingly they invested more in "Let It Bleed", making it even album's title. But they originally planned to call it STICKY FINGERS...
If so, it could have been a nice replacement for You Got The Silver - but then again it's blasphemy to even be thinking in those terms...
(edit: now when I listened to that clip of Hyde Park version, I observed that there Mick introduces the song by saying that it will be released in their next album...)
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: October 8, 2012 13:09
Quote
Doxa
A quick passing theory to the question I proposed above, why "Loving Cup" did not make LET IT BLEED.
There were so many 'big songs' (incl. longetivity, atmopshere, story) to choose from to make a single album reasonable. They took "Gimme Shelter", "Let It Bleed", "Midnight Rambler" and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and put them to starting and finishing the sides. The rest songs were filling the sides with 'easier' songs to make the sides more breathing and easier to attach (and also giving enough room for the big ones to shine). "Loving Cup" was not such a 'filler'. I would think that the decision would have been most with it and "Let It Bleed", and I could easily see how "Loving Cup" could have fitted into that place in the album (a closer of A-side). But seemingly they invested more in "Let It Bleed", making it even album's title. But they originally planned to call it STICKY FINGERS...
(edit: now when I listened to that clip of Hyde Park version, I observed that there Mick introduces the song by saying that it will be released in their next album...)
- Doxa
I think the most expendable song on Let It Bleed - and again it's blasphemy to suggest - is Country Honk. It's a re-tread of an already released song so why do it in the first place? Loving Cup would have fitted in beautifully after Love In Vain. But how much stronger do you want Let It Bleed to be?
The killer songs of steel, as Doxa so rightly suggests - bookend both sides of the original album and the other songs give it lightness and air to breathe such as Love In Vain, You Got The Silver and Country Honk. They lighten the general darkness. But there's no point in tinkering with one of the greatest albums of all time. It's perfect already.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 8, 2012 13:16
Quote
DandelionPowderman
- but then again it's blasphemy to even be thinking in those terms...
hahaha! I know my choice of words was a bit provocative... there are fillers and 'fillers' (and I guess you get my point..
)- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 8, 2012 13:32
Quote
Silver Dagger
I think the most expendable song on Let It Bleed - and again it's blasphemy to suggest - is Country Honk. It's a re-tread of an already released song so why do it in the first place? Loving Cup would have fitted in beautifully after Love In Vain. But how much stronger do you want Let It Bleed to be?
"Country Honk" is probably the oddest choice in LET IT BLEED, but there seems to be some kind of good reason - a musical statement - why they want it include it there. A bit like "Dear Doctor" in BEGGARS BANQUET - to give musical variance, and, to a great deal, humor (the latter seemed to go hand in hand with country music still then, no matter how much mr. Parsons was already educating Keith...)
But I think replacing it by 'stronger' or more 'serious'cut like "Loving Cup" would have changed the tone of the album rather much. Better or worse, don't know, but more 'deeper' it had been. All I can quess is that was not the artistic idea Mick and Keith (and Miller) had in their mind. To go not too deep. But I admit the suggestion you make sounds good.
Funnily I can't think of "Loving Cup" fitting to STICKY FINGERS at all.
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: October 8, 2012 13:50
It's always hard to imagine a song from one record released on an other record......but if they had choose Loving Cup on Bleed or Sticky ...Miller had made the song fit on that record.......
B.t.w. 10 out of 10 for loving cup....this song never bores
__________________________
B.t.w. 10 out of 10 for loving cup....this song never bores
__________________________
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: October 8, 2012 15:51
Quote
DoxaQuote
Silver Dagger
I think the most expendable song on Let It Bleed - and again it's blasphemy to suggest - is Country Honk. It's a re-tread of an already released song so why do it in the first place? Loving Cup would have fitted in beautifully after Love In Vain. But how much stronger do you want Let It Bleed to be?
Funnily I can't think of "Loving Cup" fitting to STICKY FINGERS at all.
- Doxa
Definitely not. Sticky Fingers had a real gravitas to it. Even Dead Flowers, the uptempo happy song, dealt with nasty subject matter.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:10
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap, including the raw 1969 Loving Cup would most definitely have improved it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:15 by His Majesty.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:15 by His Majesty.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:16
Quote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap, including the raw 1969 Loving Cup would most definitely have improved it.
But but, Mick Taylor wasn't even playing in half of it!
- Doxa
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:24
Quote
DoxaQuote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap, including the raw 1969 Loving Cup would most definitely have improved it.
But but, Mick Taylor wasn't even playing in half of it!
- Doxa
Being serious...
To give the album a more unified sound they maybe should have had Taylor overdub on to tracks which were already nearly completed and/or re-recorded tracks that didn't feature him... Excepting Gimme Shelter perhaps.
As it is, the great and crap song writing on Let It Bleed and the lack of a definite 3rd man makes it sound and feel odd.
Given the talent and ability they had in 1969, Let It Bleed as an album is strangley weak imo, the weakest album of the so called big four studio albums.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:28 by His Majesty.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:28
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DoxaQuote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap, including the raw 1969 Loving Cup would most definitely have improved it.
But but, Mick Taylor wasn't even playing in half of it!
- Doxa
Being serious...
To give the album a more unified sound they mabe should have had Taylor overdub on to tracks which were already nearly completed and/or re-recorded some.
As it is, the great and crap song writing on Let It Bleed and the lack of a definite 3rd man makes it sound and feel odd.
Given the talent and ability they had in 1969 Let It Bleed as an album is strangley weak imo, the weakest album of the so called big four studio albums.
But the sound is good as it is, and the few things Taylor does on the album doesn't alter that?
Would you care to elaborate what you find crappy about Let It Bleed, especially when it comes to song writing?
IMO, it's probably the better of the so called big four sonically, song writing-wise and regarding how it is performed.
I regard LIB a one man guitar-show, just as good as BB...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:32 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:42
It's not just about guitar, Jones's presence on Beggars Banquet is still quite strong, in tandem with Nicky Hopkins the related and combined contribution acts as the essential musical 3rd man to Jagger - Richards.
Neither Jones or Taylor are featured much on Let It Bleed, Nicky Hopkins contribution has even been toned down. With so many different outisde contributions it ends up sounding like a bit of Jagger - Richards and Friends album.
There's a gap in the bands sound.
...
Country Honk, Let It Bleed are the weakest tracks on Let It Bleed, I think they sre shite to be honest. The lyrics to Monkey Man are crap, but the music is amazing. Including YCAGWYW is a bit of a rip off too because it had already been released as b side to Honky Tonk Woman. Live With Me is cool, but meaningless.
Essentially, with Let It Bleed you are only getting 6 all new songs.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:57 by His Majesty.
Neither Jones or Taylor are featured much on Let It Bleed, Nicky Hopkins contribution has even been toned down. With so many different outisde contributions it ends up sounding like a bit of Jagger - Richards and Friends album.
There's a gap in the bands sound.
...
Country Honk, Let It Bleed are the weakest tracks on Let It Bleed, I think they sre shite to be honest. The lyrics to Monkey Man are crap, but the music is amazing. Including YCAGWYW is a bit of a rip off too because it had already been released as b side to Honky Tonk Woman. Live With Me is cool, but meaningless.
Essentially, with Let It Bleed you are only getting 6 all new songs.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-08 16:57 by His Majesty.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:48
I wouldn't touch anything on LIB. And IMO the inclusion of Country Honk is pure genious - I mean instead of including HTW. Or Loving Cup. Country Honk marks the tungue-in-cheekiness, which is also one of the strengths of LIB. The blend of threatening darkness and different levells of irony. Country Honk and the choir part of YCAGWYW make LIB so great as a whole.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:51
I get that. However, Keith's guitar playing had improved as well - and it didn't make the album any worse.
I agree about Country Honk, even though it's good fun. Can't agree with the title track. It's sloppily recorded, but just the same a fun and great listen.
Live With Me swings, but doesn't really go anywhere after the sax solo. It's still a better rock tune than most of what they had come up with at that point.
The lyrics? Well, they beat Yesterday's Papers and Sing This All Together, although I know what you're getting at.
To sum it up, I can relate to what you're saying (minus LIB, the song), but the music in total + the production is so good that I just have to rank this one way up there anyway
I agree about Country Honk, even though it's good fun. Can't agree with the title track. It's sloppily recorded, but just the same a fun and great listen.
Live With Me swings, but doesn't really go anywhere after the sax solo. It's still a better rock tune than most of what they had come up with at that point.
The lyrics? Well, they beat Yesterday's Papers and Sing This All Together, although I know what you're getting at.
To sum it up, I can relate to what you're saying (minus LIB, the song), but the music in total + the production is so good that I just have to rank this one way up there anyway
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: October 8, 2012 16:57
Quote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap
I don't do smileys normally, but this?
Gimme shelter: great
Love in Vain: great
Country Honk: alright, not as great as Honky Tonk Women
Live with me: great
Let it bleed: listen to Stu on piano, listen to Charlie, hell it's even got Bill on autoharp, so: great
Midnight rambler: great
You got the silver: first solo song by Keith, only this aspect makes it great
Monkey Man: great with capitals
You can't always get what you want, nothing but great.
So maybe about 11 % not so great, but otherwise nothing but greatness!
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:01
Gimme Shelter takes up the majority of great on Let It Bleed. ><
<Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:17
Quote
marcovandereijkQuote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap
I don't do smileys normally, but this?
Gimme shelter: great
Love in Vain: great
Country Honk: alright, not as great as Honky Tonk Women
Live with me: great
Let it bleed: listen to Stu on piano, listen to Charlie, hell it's even got Bill on autoharp, so: great
Midnight rambler: great
You got the silver: first solo song by Keith, only this aspect makes it great
Monkey Man: great with capitals
You can't always get what you want, nothing but great.
So maybe about 11 % not so great, but otherwise nothing but greatness!
What a GREAT post!
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:20
Quote
His Majesty
Let it Bleed as an album is half great and half crap, including the raw 1969 Loving Cup would most definitely have improved it.
The execution is scheduled for midnight tonight
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:21
Quote
His Majesty
Gimme Shelter takes up the majority of great on Let It Bleed. >
What's NOT great with You Got The Silver, Love In Vain and Midnight Rambler beats me
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:26
They take up the other percentage of great, but even combined are still lesser than Gimme Shelter. One cold argue that YGTS is better with Mick singing and that LIV and MR's definitive versions are live versions.
Re: Track Talk: Loving Cup
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 8, 2012 17:30
Quote
His Majesty
They take up the other percentage of great, but even combined are still lesser than Gimme Shelter. One cold argue that YGTS is better with Mick singing and that LIV and MR's definitive versions are live versions.
One could, but I would certainly not agree regarding Love In Vain!
MR sort of found it's shape on stage, and might have been recorded a tad too slow in the studio. Still, the creepy feeling of the studio version was never re-created on stage - so it's apples and oranges.
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