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Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Mock Jogger ()
Date: August 20, 2012 02:26

An interesting document, posted by Rockman in the "Some Kinda Stones Connections"-thread [www.iorr.org] (you've got to scroll up a bit)



Though in stark contrast to the versions usually spread by the Stones or authors/journalists close to them it's not new that the Stones' office/organization held tight links with Brian Jones up to his death. Bill Wyman mentioned Brian Jones using a chauffeur driven car hired by the Stones' office on the afternoon of 1 July 1969 (Rolling With The Stones, p. 327), Tom Keylock said in his official "statement of witness" taken by Detective Chief Inspector Marshall on 3 July 1969, he "continued to look after his [Brian Jones'] interests under the order of Rolling Stones Ltd." (Full copy of the statement printed in Who Killed Christopher Robin? by Terry Rawlings, p. 217). And you need only a tiny bit of common sense to realize that it would have taken years to disentangle Brian's financial ties to the Rolling Stones, just as the Beatles spent a fair amount of time in the 1970s to disentangle their business relations.
The (surviving) Stones (to a certain extent minus Bill) prefered not to talk about that and gave the impression (for example in their video documentary 25x5) Brian Jones was permanently stoned from 1967 to his only too logical death and they could do nothing but stand helplessly aside - and as far away as possible. Fairy tales that were first told by Keith Richards in his dramatic Rolling Stone magazine interview in 1971:

"I don't even know who was there that night [of Brian's death on 2 July 1969] and trying to find out is impossible. [...] And especially with him [Brian] not being officially one of the Stones then, none of our people were in direct contact so it was impossible trying to find out who was around Brian at that moment."

Of course it was possible to find out and it is not too far-fetched to assume the Stones did find out and Keylock's sacking shortly after was as much a result of finding out as was the first important step to get rid of Allen Klein, when Mick went to a party to contact Rupert Loewenstein one nice evening on the very day of 3 July 1969, in Kensington, London.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Pushing you in puddles/In the dead of night/Beware of ABKCO"
George Harrison, early Beware Of Darkness version (1970)

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: August 20, 2012 03:32

Wasn't Keylock sacked after it was found that he was attempting to pass Jones' Joujouka tapes along to various record producers for profit?

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: August 20, 2012 12:51

He was being f-cked by the office for years, yes, but they didnt kill him or anything. The gave him, Wyman and Watts a hard time though.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 20, 2012 18:30

I was always curious how they came up with the alleged amount to offer Brian when they sacked him. And if that was supposed to tie up all ends and if Brian signed something giving away all future rights. It would be interesting to know if Klein came up with all that, and if there is any such thing as an ongoing Brian Jones estate.

Dead celebrities likenesses are often handled by a handful of attorneys who are experienced with this, and it's the families of the celebrity who generally benefit. I've never seen much Jones merchandise. I wonder if the ABCKO reissues generated any profits for the Jones estate, or if Klein cut them off a long time ago. I imagine marketing a Jones likeness could get tricky. It would probably have to be tied not too closely to copyrighted Stones' images.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: August 20, 2012 18:36

Quote
24FPS
I was always curious how they came up with the alleged amount to offer Brian when they sacked him. And if that was supposed to tie up all ends and if Brian signed something giving away all future rights. It would be interesting to know if Klein came up with all that, and if there is any such thing as an ongoing Brian Jones estate.

Dead celebrities likenesses are often handled by a handful of attorneys who are experienced with this, and it's the families of the celebrity who generally benefit. I've never seen much Jones merchandise. I wonder if the ABCKO reissues generated any profits for the Jones estate, or if Klein cut them off a long time ago. I imagine marketing a Jones likeness could get tricky. It would probably have to be tied not too closely to copyrighted Stones' images.

Mitchflorida might be able to help you with this. eye rolling smiley




Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 20, 2012 19:04

There is still a Brian Jones estate, his sister is one of those who recieves money from any income generated via rolayties etc.

Sadly, none of Brian's children recieve any of that relativley small flow of cash. They all seem to be doing fine without it though, so kudos to them!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-20 19:10 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 20, 2012 19:23

I forget about those Nanker-Phelge things on the early albums. Those probably produce a donut and a cup of coffee every few years. Maybe when Brian's sister passes away 'Brian's Bastards' could come forward as a group and claim the estate and use his image. All their lives looking at his mug and not getting a dime. They deserve some loot after all these years.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 20, 2012 19:29

This article, which features Brian's last known interview, doesn't suggest to me that any kind of financial deal/offer had been made at the meeting at Cotchford...

[www.iorr.org]

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 20, 2012 19:32

Quote
24FPS
I forget about those Nanker-Phelge things on the early albums. Those probably produce a donut and a cup of coffee every few years. Maybe when Brian's sister passes away 'Brian's Bastards' could come forward as a group and claim the estate and use his image. All their lives looking at his mug and not getting a dime. They deserve some loot after all these years.

This is not the 50's yo, no need for the bastard part.

There will be performance and maybe arrangement royalties of some kind for all the stones music Brian played on.

Some of his children don't give a shit about the loot.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-20 19:34 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: August 20, 2012 19:43

Quote
24FPS
I was always curious how they came up with the alleged amount to offer Brian when they sacked him. And if that was supposed to tie up all ends and if Brian signed something giving away all future rights. It would be interesting to know if Klein came up with all that, and if there is any such thing as an ongoing Brian Jones estate.

Dead celebrities likenesses are often handled by a handful of attorneys who are experienced with this, and it's the families of the celebrity who generally benefit. I've never seen much Jones merchandise. I wonder if the ABCKO reissues generated any profits for the Jones estate, or if Klein cut them off a long time ago. I imagine marketing a Jones likeness could get tricky. It would probably have to be tied not too closely to copyrighted Stones' images.

Have you seen this. They are talking about you...

[members7.boardhost.com]

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: August 20, 2012 20:28

I am really surprised that none of Brian's kids get any of his money. He accepted paternity for most of his children so I would think that they would be entitled as his heirs to some of his estate. Have any of them come forward to ask for any? I wouldn't blame them if they did, he was their father so why should his sister get everything?

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: August 20, 2012 21:12

Quote
latebloomer
Have any of them come forward to ask for any?

I'm sure they have, and I've heard Brian's parents never wanted anything to do with them. sad smiley


Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: latebloomer ()
Date: August 20, 2012 22:11

Quote
Edith Grove
Quote
latebloomer
Have any of them come forward to ask for any?

I'm sure they have, and I've heard Brian's parents never wanted anything to do with them. sad smiley

I've heard that too, but what I am wondering is why the courts wouldn't give some of the money to his children. I guess none of them pursued a claim or maybe it worked differently back then and they had no legal standing.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 20, 2012 22:35

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
24FPS
I was always curious how they came up with the alleged amount to offer Brian when they sacked him. And if that was supposed to tie up all ends and if Brian signed something giving away all future rights. It would be interesting to know if Klein came up with all that, and if there is any such thing as an ongoing Brian Jones estate.

Dead celebrities likenesses are often handled by a handful of attorneys who are experienced with this, and it's the families of the celebrity who generally benefit. I've never seen much Jones merchandise. I wonder if the ABCKO reissues generated any profits for the Jones estate, or if Klein cut them off a long time ago. I imagine marketing a Jones likeness could get tricky. It would probably have to be tied not too closely to copyrighted Stones' images.

Have you seen this. They are talking about you...

[members7.boardhost.com]

Thanks. Nothing really gets answered, and I don't expect it to. I think the world of the Rolling Stones was so far from the world of Brian's parents that I doubt they ever read much about how their son was perceived down the line. Whatever the financial arrangement was for the estate, we simply don't know. Yeah, there could have been a confidentiality agreement. And I've never heard of one his children going after the estate. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. His image can't be that marketable, but somebody with a creative mind could find a way.

As for referring to his children as 'Brian's Bastards', this is the year 2012, and the meaning of the word Bastard has not been altered. It is a person born of unmarried parents, period. This is not like using the word 'colored' in 2012.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 20, 2012 23:15

Quote
24FPS
As for referring to his children as 'Brian's Bastards', this is the year 2012, and the meaning of the word Bastard has not been altered. It is a person born of unmarried parents, period. This is not like using the word 'colored' in 2012.

Actually, a bastard is a child born outside of marriage and then not legally accepted so that it does not have a legal right to inheritance of the father's legal possessions.

As Brian wasn't married, his children aren't bastards.

Mathijs

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: BackstreetGirl ()
Date: August 20, 2012 23:35

When Brian's sister passes away, maybe her children will recieve they money.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: August 20, 2012 23:35

Quote
Mathijs
Actually, a bastard is a child born outside of marriage and then not legally accepted so that it does not have a legal right to inheritance of the father's legal possessions.

Well, that's a @#$%& up law, if it really is a law.

You mean to tell me that a father simply does not have to accept responsibility for a child he fathers, if the child was born out of wedlock ?

I think that's preposterous.


Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 21, 2012 00:02

Quote
Edith Grove
Quote
Mathijs
Actually, a bastard is a child born outside of marriage and then not legally accepted so that it does not have a legal right to inheritance of the father's legal possessions.

Well, that's a @#$%& up law, if it really is a law.

You mean to tell me that a father simply does not have to accept responsibility for a child he fathers, if the child was born out of wedlock ?

I think that's preposterous.

Well, the term 'bastard' is really old fashioned, and doesn't hold any real meaning in the civilised world as legal limitations have been removed for illegitimate children.

Mathijs

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 21, 2012 00:14

Not many know this but Jimi Hendrix has a bastard son in Sweden. I saw a picture of him in his teens and he looked like a copy of his father. However he hasn't recieved a cent from Jimi's estate since his mom wasn't married to Jimi. Which I think is morally wrong. After all, he is Jimi's son.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 21, 2012 00:30

Quote
Stoneage
Not many know this but Jimi Hendrix has a bastard son in Sweden. I saw a picture of him in his teens and he looked like a copy of his father. However he hasn't recieved a cent from Jimi's estate since his mom wasn't married to Jimi. Which I think is morally wrong. After all, he is Jimi's son.

James Daniel Sundquist

.

He has been acknowlegded as legitimate son of Hendrix, and has received a settlement from the Experience Hendrix LLC.

Mathijs

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 21, 2012 00:49

Thanks for the update, Mathijs. It must have taken a long time to agree on that settlement though. A couple of years ago when I read about it, the story was that he hadn't been acknowledged by Jimi's relatives in the US. I wonder what kind of deal they made. If he's really acknowledged as a legitimate son of Jimi he should be rich by now. My guess is that they paid him off on a side deal.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: August 21, 2012 01:13

Quote
24FPS
I was always curious how they came up with the alleged amount to offer Brian when they sacked him. And if that was supposed to tie up all ends and if Brian signed something giving away all future rights. It would be interesting to know if Klein came up with all that, and if there is any such thing as an ongoing Brian Jones estate.

Dead celebrities likenesses are often handled by a handful of attorneys who are experienced with this, and it's the families of the celebrity who generally benefit. I've never seen much Jones merchandise. I wonder if the ABCKO reissues generated any profits for the Jones estate, or if Klein cut them off a long time ago. I imagine marketing a Jones likeness could get tricky. It would probably have to be tied not too closely to copyrighted Stones' images.

Do you remember where you read Brian was to get this money? The only place I found that mentions it is in Tony Sanchez's book (see below).

I thought I remember reading something about Mick saying - "I don't know why everyone is crying about Brian, he is getting <some pound/dollar amount> a year" (he may have been talking to Marianne and Anita).

Also thought I heard that this was a - 100,000 pound ($240,000) one time payment and then a smaller amount a year for as long as the band stays together.

This first part is a quote from Keith:


Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: August 21, 2012 02:26

Quote
24FPS
me

As for referring to his children as 'Brian's Bastards', this is the year 2012, and the meaning of the word Bastard has not been altered. It is a person born of unmarried parents, period. This is not like using the word 'colored' in 2012.

eye rolling smiley

It's just you being a fukking kunt!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-08-21 02:28 by His Majesty.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: souldoggie ()
Date: August 21, 2012 09:02

Thanks for the scan, 2000 LYFH. I knew I'd read about the settlement years ago, but I couldn't remember where.
I do remember reading that Brian was offered an initial 100,000 pound payment and then I believe it was 20,000 pounds a year thereafter, for as long as the band was together.

It always has bothered me that people think a bastard is merely a child born out of wedlock.
Yes, the child is born of an unwed mother, but that does not in itself mean the child was a bastard.
The term bastard is more particular in that it refers to a child for whom the father is unknown.
Ages ago it was a term used mainly to describe a child born of a prostitute. She would of had many men during the evening or during a particular week, so pre-DNA there was no way she could know who the father was.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: August 21, 2012 09:02

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
24FPS
me

As for referring to his children as 'Brian's Bastards', this is the year 2012, and the meaning of the word Bastard has not been altered. It is a person born of unmarried parents, period. This is not like using the word 'colored' in 2012.

eye rolling smiley

It's just you being a fukking kunt!

Wow. It's like I've been knighted by the Queen of kukking funts. What would be better for your tender sensibilities, illegitimate? Love children? Brian was a bastard who left behind many bastards. If you don't like the word, contact Websters. My mother once called me a son of a bitch. I just looked at her until it hit her what she'd said. It made her very angry.spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: August 21, 2012 09:48

'Bastard' is probably the first swear-word I learnt as a child. As others gave stated, the term is redundant, really. People use the word with no thought to the actual meaning.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: August 21, 2012 13:15

Quote
Big Al
People use the word with no thought to the actual meaning.

You're all a shower of Bastards ! - spoken by a popular poster on a particularly funny thread. smiling smiley


Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: August 21, 2012 20:50

I wonder what happened to Mock?

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: neptune ()
Date: August 22, 2012 18:44

Keith wanted to get to the bottom of what happened to Brian the night he died, but he couldn't attend his funeral a couple days later? Talk about love/hate relationships.

Re: Brian Jones and the Stones' office
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: August 22, 2012 18:47

Quote
neptune
Keith wanted to get to the bottom of what happened to Brian the night he died, but he couldn't attend his funeral a couple days later? Talk about love/hate relationships.

Good one - Maybe he was a... still trying to get to the bottom of what happened to Brian the night he died! Yeah that's it.

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