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keefriffhard4life
what are peoples opinions on the last 2 moon albums (BY NUMBERS and WHO ARE YOU) and the 3 post moon albums (FACES DANCE, IT'S HARD and ENDLESS WIRE)

Who By Numbers is a bit more spotty, because this is the point where Townshend started writing more for himself than for the band. As now you've seen the Quadrophenia doc, you can guess from the letter he read at the end how he was wishing to be out of the Who and it was at this point that he became more soul-searching, more introspective. Daltrey has stated that he had no idea what They Are All In Love was about, and it's hard to sing--to be--a song that you don't understand at all (whereas with Tommy, Daltrey said to Townshend let me be Tommy and it changed his whole approach to singing and fronting the band for the better). Other songs like Dreaming From The Waist and However Much I Booze reflect a similar world-weary bitterness and the album just doesn't gel as a group effort on the whole. It should have been a Townshend solo album instead. Case in point: Give this version of However Much I Booze a listen (released on Scoop 3)--not the demo version, it was recorded at Goring studio (where he mixed Quadrophenia) with musicians other than the Who: Recorded by Dick Hayes, it includes Phil Chen on bass, Andrew Bailey (drums), and Phillip Bailey (keyboards). You'll see that the song works a lot better as a solo recording, both in terms of atmosphere and flow...

no comments on the other 4 albums i mentioned?

I think Who By Numbers is one of their most underrated albums. Yes, stonesnow is right, this is a very personal Townshend statement. But I think the Who pull it off wonderfully. Especially after three concept albums in a row, now we have a more straight forward and personal connection to the fans. Some wonderful playing and production on it. Imagine a Man is a stunningly haunting ballad. How Many Friends is also another chilling and caustic examination as Pete does so well. I really hold this album close to my heart, and am glad it wasn't a Townshend solo album, because I think The Who brought an interesting presentation to it. Forcefull, and gentle, which was something different for them.
Face Dances has aged very well. When I first got it, the day it was released, I was very dissapointed. I was hoping to hear the full power and furry of The 'orrible 'oo rising from the ashes. It is a more subdued and introspecitive with a lot of pop hooks, but the more you listen the more it gives. Some wonderful playing and song writing. How Can You Do it Alone, and Did you Steal My Money are fantastic, as is Another Tricky Day (which pissed off some as a too flippant reflection of the 79 concert tragedy in Ohio). And John provides some great rocking numbers with You and The Quiet One. Its Hard, is one of my least favorite albums, but also it has aged better than when it first came out with some stand out songe. Of course you have the brilliant Eminence Front, but also some other strong ones such as Cry If You Want (Which was epic live and there is a bonus live version of it on the new versions), A Man is Man (sounds like it could have fit on Who By Numbers). There a lot of John's songs on it, which also seems to suggest Pete was already done with The Who and was feeing it's hard to write for them any more. Still one of their weakest albums as a whole.

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keefriffhard4life
no comments on the other 4 albums i mentioned?

I'm just turning in for the night now, but will have much to say on the other 4 throughout Monday...

A great one from Face Dances:

The Who Another Tricky Day, from the great Rockplast show that you can now get on DVD (well worth it):






Another nice one, from the same video as Another Tricky Day, Don't Let Go the Coat:





And some great John songs as well:





And yet another great John song





Interesting that the most rocking songs on Face Dances are John's.

Here is Cry if You Want from It's Hard:





And Eminence Front (one of my Fav's!) and Roger on guitar with Pete:







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-31 02:49 by whitem8.

God, what a fantastic OT thread this is! I'm now thinking of replaying old vinyl LPs of 'Who's Next' and 'Quadrophenia' I still own (although both very scratchy)...just brings back great memories of this great band!

GREAT THREAD! by numbers is a gem, great to hear that alternate "no way out" never heard it before. Awesome.

"Who Are You" is a glorious song... fantastic and heartfelt.. and encapsulated my life in 1978.

I think a lot of people can identify with that song.

Great power chord guitar in there as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-30 19:03 by GravityBoy.

Just to add and clarify.. not many do self-loathing as good as Pete Townshend.

Who Are You was also a glorious album! Some wonderful guitar and writing by Pete. And three very strong John songs as well! Trick of the Light is epic, and 905 full of John's sci fi humor as only he could pull off. Had Enough has some classic Pete slashing guitar and a very sublime string arrangement. Pete's songs are reminiscent of Who By Numbers. Very introspective and caustic, yet gentle and touching. Moonie's last, "not to be taken away..." By all accounts a difficult album for him, where he had to basically redo all his drum parts because the first run through was very substandard. And Roger is in full voice and anger, even got close to a punch out with the producer. The Who Are You video is classic! A favorite concert number from the 79/80 tour was The Music Must Change, where The WHo would extend it with some great jamming from Pete.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-31 02:39 by whitem8.

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GravityBoy
Just to add and clarify.. not many do self-loathing as good as Pete Townshend.

Nor do they enjoy it as much as Pete Townshend

When talking in the 80s and 90s of how the powers of the Who seemed to diminish in their later years, Townshend would always reference Who Are You as the last decent album the group recorded. Like By Numbers, Who Are You is a strong, though patchy, effort. At the outset, they come out swinging with New Song (same as the old song), which seems an answer to the rising new wave of punks who criticize them for still playing rock-n-roll the same old way, and Sister Disco, and Townshend's introspection doesn't bog the material down as it did on By Numbers--though he is questioning his place in rock and his decision to push forward.

The title track has the famous story behind it of encountering Steve Jones and Paul Cook in the Speakeasy in London one night and confronting them about their public criticism of both him and the Who. There is another reason that Townshend asks himself Who Are You? The back royalties of $1 million owed to him by Kit Lambert had just been settled and Townshend in a fit of bitter anger actually ripped the check to shreds on this occasion in the Speakeasy.

One of the things that must of disillusioned Townshend about the Who after Quadrophenia was the absence of his long-time mentor Kit Lambert, who was supposed to have produced Quadrophenia but couldn't at the time because he was too strung out on heroin and became unreliable (along with Chris Stamp) in terms of handling the bands finances. Perhaps Townshend felt betrayed. Lambert's influence on Townshend cannot be overstated--it was Lambert who encouraged and pushed Townshend toward writing the mini-opera A Quick One and later the full rock opera Tommy. Lambert's sudden unreliability must have been a great letdown and for their relationship to be finalized in the judicial system to recover back royalties must have been disheartening. There is a version of Who Are You with a lost verse that appears as an extra track on the CD reissue (at 1:33): "I used to check my reflection/jumpin' with my teen guitar/I must have lost my direction/'coz I ain't bit up to superstar/one matters in the boardroom/petrify the human race/you can learn from my mistakes/but you're posing in the glass again":





Empty Glass (the song) was composed and recorded as the Who also during these sessions (posted above) and would have made for a stronger album overall if it had been included as the closing track after Who Are You rather than the forgettable No Road Romance. The album would have been stronger still if the more aggressive guitar version of Guitar And Pen had been included:





Another notable outtake is the work-in-progress mix for Love Is Coming Down.





All in all a solid final effort for the original lineup, although not as great as earlier albums like Who's Next and Quadrophenia, where one song flowed into the other as a full coherent body of work, whether as part of a concept or not, and you wouldn't want to have even a single minute of a single song redone. It seemed, though, that by 1978 their creative zenith had passed, for in 1971 Townshend never had to ask bitterly Who Are You, but instead could gamely ask Who's Next...

Another thing that really saddened Townshend and was a watershed moment when he overheard Kit Lambert talking about Townshend's Lifehouse idea as being "mad" and not worth pursuing. This really saddened and angered Pete, and started Townshend thinking Lambert was using him. Pete has said he was bitter and felt his friend was just using him. Then the drug excesses basically created another wall between the two men and their relationship was never the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-31 08:14 by whitem8.

Say, can anyone use this unused piano from Quadrophenia?





Or how about these Recorders, also intended for Quadrophenia but never used, the sound of which was made with one of those little plastic whirling tubes that children used to play with in the 70s (there's also a bit of strummed cello strings on the track)...







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-07-31 06:36 by stonesnow.

Face Dances has great tunes but I think suffers from a lousy production,
Bill Sczymyck (spelling) was a poor choice. Kenny Jones' drums sound dull and uninteresting, and I know he's better than that 'cause I saw him with The Who twice in 1980 and he was outstanding. Again, Pete's demos were better. Don't Let Go The Coat is one of Pete's more sublime tunes. A real gem. I gave Empty Glass a spin not too long ago and was surprised how contemporary it sounded, synths and all.
I loved Pete's look in 1980-81. Blue suede shoes and pink socks, 3-day growth on his face--of course he was really drunk at the time. Totally opposite of the type of music playing on stage. He looked like he should have been in the Pretenders.

By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

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ab
By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

what about "you better you bet"?

also WHO ARE YOU saw pete trying to combine elements of prog rock into the who style so it was meant to be overblown

Well I don't agree with ab at all. There are some very good songs on Face Dances. As I said in my previous post. I have never been a big fan of You Better You Bet, but I really like Another Tricky Day, Don't Let Go the Coat, How Can You Do it Alone, Somebody Saved Me is a fantastic song, and then there are John's songs which are both great, The Quiet One and You.

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keefriffhard4life

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ab
By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

what about "you better you bet"?

also WHO ARE YOU saw pete trying to combine elements of prog rock into the who style so it was meant to be overblown

Not prog rock (though I know what you're saying). They're very dramatic, Sister Disco and Guitar And Pen, Love Is Coming Down seem like they could be on a Broadway stage.
A Who bio mentioned Gilbert & Sullivan and that seems kinda close.
Funny that despite all the punk-Mod revival going on at the time, Pete never steered the band in that direction (even though the Who were sometimes called "the first punk band," whatever that meant).

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tomk

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keefriffhard4life

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ab
By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

what about "you better you bet"?

also WHO ARE YOU saw pete trying to combine elements of prog rock into the who style so it was meant to be overblown

Not prog rock (though I know what you're saying). They're very dramatic, Sister Disco and Guitar And Pen, Love Is Coming Down seem like they could be on a Broadway stage.
A Who bio mentioned Gilbert & Sullivan and that seems kinda close.
Funny that despite all the punk-Mod revival going on at the time, Pete never steered the band in that direction (even though the Who were sometimes called "the first punk band," whatever that meant).

there is a website with pages on info on each who album and thats where i got that from. it says pete wanted to merge the who's rock sound with prog rock and punk (the 2 new popular styles at the time) which caused him to revist some of the lifehouse songs that had been lying around

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keefriffhard4life

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tomk

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keefriffhard4life

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ab
By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

what about "you better you bet"?

also WHO ARE YOU saw pete trying to combine elements of prog rock into the who style so it was meant to be overblown

Not prog rock (though I know what you're saying). They're very dramatic, Sister Disco and Guitar And Pen, Love Is Coming Down seem like they could be on a Broadway stage.
A Who bio mentioned Gilbert & Sullivan and that seems kinda close.
Funny that despite all the punk-Mod revival going on at the time, Pete never steered the band in that direction (even though the Who were sometimes called "the first punk band," whatever that meant).

there is a website with pages on info on each who album and thats where i got that from. it says pete wanted to merge the who's rock sound with prog rock and punk (the 2 new popular styles at the time) which caused him to revist some of the lifehouse songs that had been lying around

Which website? It'd be an interesting take on it, though there's nothing punk about Who Are You. Nothing at all. Regarding Lifehouse, I do wish Pete would commit it to film. He wanted to do that as late as 1980. It could work, however the music is 40 years old and won't hold the attention of any 19-year-old (that's who you make movies for).

[www.thewho.net]

btw these are my 5 favorite who albums and these are the 90's expanded versions unless i state its the 2 cd deluxe versions:
1 the who sell out (maybe i should get the 2 cd version though?)
2 who's next
3 my generation (2 cd deluxe version)
4 a quick one
5 tommy

hmmmm....Keef you need to add Live at Leeds (deluxe) on that list dear. It is epochal and influenced a lot of the more modern rock you like.

Yes, I agree with the mix of prog rock with Pete's punkness on Who are You. Actually there is a lot of anger on Who are You and I hear Punk loud and clear. For one, Who are You is him flipping off the punks. New Song is angry stuff, of a resentful man on the hitsville treadmill. It is a very interesting album with Pete mixing his prog rock leanings from Quadrophenia with a bit more polish.

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whitem8
hmmmm....Keef you need to add Live at Leeds (deluxe) on that list dear. It is epochal and influenced a lot of the more modern rock you like.

Yes, I agree with the mix of prog rock with Pete's punkness on Who are You. Actually there is a lot of anger on Who are You and I hear Punk loud and clear. For one, Who are You is him flipping off the punks. New Song is angry stuff, of a resentful man on the hitsville treadmill. It is a very interesting album with Pete mixing his prog rock leanings from Quadrophenia with a bit more polish.

i was just listing studio albums. live at leeds would take the 3 or 4 spot if i listed live albums. i don't have the 2 cd deluxe edition but really could care less about hearing tommy performed live in its entire unless it was a concert like they are doing with the current quadrophenia tour.
is the 2 cd deluxe editions of who's next or the who sell out worth owning if you have the expanded versions, 30 years of r&b boxset and 2 cd greatest hits live?

Actually Tommy live is way better than the studio album. They are scorching as a live act in the early 70's. And Tommy live is far more electric. Pete is brilliant. Just the version of The Amazing Journey/Sparks is some of the heaviest mind blowing rock jamming ever done. Keith John and Pete lock into that intro riff just as Amazing Journey is ending and, whew, blows the door off the hinges.

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whitem8
Actually Tommy live is way better than the studio album. They are scorching as a live act in the early 70's. And Tommy live is far more electric. Pete is brilliant. Just the version of The Amazing Journey/Sparks is some of the heaviest mind blowing rock jamming ever done. Keith John and Pete lock into that intro riff just as Amazing Journey is ending and, whew, blows the door off the hinges.

then i'd rather get live at isle of wight festival

IMO Leeds is better. The versions of My Generation and pretty much all of Tommy is better on Leeds. But Isle of White does have the epic Water and a storming Young Man Blues. But Leeds is the top. One of the best live albums of rock history.

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whitem8
IMO Leeds is better. The versions of My Generation and pretty much all of Tommy is better on Leeds. But Isle of White does have the epic Water and a storming Young Man Blues. But Leeds is the top. One of the best live albums of rock history.

since i have all of leeds except the tommy section i'd rather isle of wight since i don't have the rest of the stuff

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tomk

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keefriffhard4life

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tomk

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keefriffhard4life

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ab
By Numbers and Endless Wire each have their moments, but neither would rate among the Who's best. Who Are You was overblown crap, and Face Dances and It's Hard make Who Are You look like a masterpiece. The only worthwhile song on Face Dances and It's Hard combined is Eminence Front.

what about "you better you bet"?

also WHO ARE YOU saw pete trying to combine elements of prog rock into the who style so it was meant to be overblown

Not prog rock (though I know what you're saying). They're very dramatic, Sister Disco and Guitar And Pen, Love Is Coming Down seem like they could be on a Broadway stage.
A Who bio mentioned Gilbert & Sullivan and that seems kinda close.
Funny that despite all the punk-Mod revival going on at the time, Pete never steered the band in that direction (even though the Who were sometimes called "the first punk band," whatever that meant).

there is a website with pages on info on each who album and thats where i got that from. it says pete wanted to merge the who's rock sound with prog rock and punk (the 2 new popular styles at the time) which caused him to revist some of the lifehouse songs that had been lying around

Which website? It'd be an interesting take on it, though there's nothing punk about Who Are You. Nothing at all. Regarding Lifehouse, I do wish Pete would commit it to film. He wanted to do that as late as 1980. It could work, however the music is 40 years old and won't hold the attention of any 19-year-old (that's who you make movies for).

Yes, it is true that 19 year olds are who you make movies for--because people that age are the only ones dumb and uninformed enough to eat all that junk they sell at cinema concession stands. Regarding Lifehouse, this is as close as it has ever gotten to film:



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